I want to try making kir and when I went to the liquor store to check
out the Creme de Cassis they look kind of cheap and crappy. I have no
idea what it should taste like. Any suggestions on the best Creme de
Cassis?
Also any other suggestions for good mixed drinks with wine? As a kid,
we drank Mogen David concord grape wine mixed with 7Up. We called them
Shirley Whirlies. That's the only other mixed drink I can think of with
wine, so needless to say I don't know much.

alt.college.fraternities

In article .com>,
says...
> alt.college.fraternities
>
>
So, Chris Spraque, if I understand this correctly, you're saying this is
a question beneath alt.food.wine?
Chris, what's wrong with asking about an ingredient in kir? Are you
aware of its long history in France? Chris, did you know Robert Parker
wrote that A. et P. de Villaine bought a vineyard in Rully just so he
would grow the best aligote in France for kir? Parker says he
accomplished his goal. I happen to like the chardonnay grown in the rest
of the land, de Villaine's Rully Les St. Jacques.
Is wine so sacred here that we can't talk about mixing it with other
ingredients?
Chris Sprague, please explain to me why something wine-related that
interests the owner of Romanée-Conti is beneath discussion in this
newsgroup? This could be enlightening.

Marie Brizard makes a decent creme de cassis that can be found in some
larger stores in the US and in many other countries. There are also
decent cassis syrups made in France that will serve also. For a
variation, you might try substitution of creme de fraise, creme de
framboise, or blackberry liqueur for the cassis.

There are many wine punches that often are served at large parties and
receptions in the US. If you buy a book concernng classic mixed drinks,
you likely will find some of these punches listed. Some use both wine
and spirits such as brandy. Then there are hot, and often spiced, wine
drinks often seen at ski resorts and such. A good mixed drink book
likely will list some of these.

Reply to .

In message .com>
" > wrote:

> I want to try making kir and when I went to the liquor store to check
> out the Creme de Cassis they look kind of cheap and crappy. I have no
> idea what it should taste like. Any suggestions on the best Creme de
> Cassis?
> Also any other suggestions for good mixed drinks with wine? As a kid,
> we drank Mogen David concord grape wine mixed with 7Up. We called them
> Shirley Whirlies. That's the only other mixed drink I can think of with
> wine, so needless to say I don't know much.
>
Have you tried any of the other fruit bases such as Creme de Mûre
(blackberry)? There are also ones made from raspberries (Framboise)
and strawberries (Fraises) and peach (Pèche). Personally I think the
classic Cassis and Mûre are the best because they are no so sweet in
themselves as to allow swetness to vercome the wine. AS to the atter
I am afraid that I use cheapos for this type of drink although I
readily accept that decent aligoté makes by far the best Kir
a Gros Plant de Nantes for a still one or even a fairly cheap - not
real bottom end — vin mousseux makes a decent enough Kir Royal.

Timothy Hartley

"Cwdjrx _" in ....
> ...
> There are many wine punches that often are served at large
> parties and receptions in the US. If you buy a book concernng
> classic mixed drinks, you likely will find some of these
> punches listed. Some use both wine and spirits such as brandy.
> Then there are hot, and often spiced, wine drinks ...

Yes, there is a whole world of punches and other wine drinks, various
countries have traditions like this. Some of them were more popular in past
times and have become somewhat forgotten.

If I remember right, when Brillat-Savarin was exiled from France during the
Terror of the 1790s he spent some years in the US and returned with certain
new-world food enthusiasms. This produced the famous remark "Je suis un
Dindonophile." Besides turkeys, he picked up a taste for wine-based
punches, popular at the time.

A rich British tradition of wine-based drinks is reviewed, lovingly and
anecdotally, by George Saintsbury in _Notes on a Cellar-Book_ which is also
the prototype wine-enthusiast book in English and well worth getting for
anyone interested in wine, or even beer or spirits (the subject matter
includes, but is not limited to, wine). It has been re-issued frequently
for 85 years with very slight changes and is easily available on the used
market from online booksellers. It is a much better reference for this
subject than the modern mixed-drink guides that I have seen, which carry
only a residue of the broad wine-drinks tradition.

(In my opinion this material is wholly appropriate for a wines newsgroup not
just because the inquiry was about wine drinks but because of the venerable
traditions it touches on. Subjects like highly marketed university fad
cocktails and the multi-layer pousse-café normally appear in the same
newsgroup they've appeared since 1986, rec.food.drink.)

Cheers -- Max

There is this Spanish thing called Sangria

On 25 Jul 2005 17:23:42 -0700, "
> wrote:

>I want to try making kir and when I went to the liquor store to check
>out the Creme de Cassis they look kind of cheap and crappy. I have no
>idea what it should taste like. Any suggestions on the best Creme de
>Cassis?
>Also any other suggestions for good mixed drinks with wine? As a kid,
>we drank Mogen David concord grape wine mixed with 7Up. We called them
>Shirley Whirlies. That's the only other mixed drink I can think of with
>wine, so needless to say I don't know much.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:09:38 +0100, Timothy Hartley .=
uk> said:

] In message .com>
] " > wrote:
]=20
] > I want to try making kir and when I went to the liquor store to check
] > out the Creme de Cassis they look kind of cheap and crappy. I have no
] > idea what it should taste like. Any suggestions on the best Creme de
] > Cassis?
] > Also any other suggestions for good mixed drinks with wine? As a kid,
] > we drank Mogen David concord grape wine mixed with 7Up. We called them
] > Shirley Whirlies. That's the only other mixed drink I can think of with
] > wine, so needless to say I don't know much.
] >=20
] Have you tried any of the other fruit bases such as Creme de M=FBre=20
] (blackberry)? There are also ones made from raspberries (Framboise)=20
] and strawberries (Fraises) and peach (P=E8che). Personally I think the=
=20
] classic Cassis and M=FBre are the best because they are no so sweet in=20
] themselves as to allow swetness to vercome the wine. AS to the atter=20
] I am afraid that I use cheapos for this type of drink although I=20
] readily accept that decent aligot=E9 makes by far the best Kir
] a Gros Plant de Nantes for a still one or even a fairly cheap - not=20
] real bottom end _ vin mousseux makes a decent enough Kir Royal.
]=20

Agreed, Gros Plant makes a decent enough kir. Although this is
not my drink, I prefer a whisky, Adele often has one. The brand
on our bar is=20

Creme de Cassis de Dijon
L'Heritier-Guyot

I don't guess that this is very obscure, but the quality seems
reasonable anyway.

Indeed, making a kir with creme de peche or mure is a grand
classic. Like Timothy I find the peach a bit too sweet; when I
do have a kir I have it very light.

Shirley Whirlies. Brrr. That said this is a perfectly apt conversation
for afw, where we often go much further afield. Personally I didn't=20
take Chris' response as implying the contrary, just that the other ng
might be appropriate too. YMMV.

-E

--=20
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

I repented almost the moment I posted it, and removed the post (at
least from Google, of course it will still appear on regular news
servers).

I use a Crème de Cassis by Lejay-Lagoute (France) and it makes a pretty
decent Kir Royale when paired with Hillebrand's Trius Brut from my home's
Canadian Niagara wine region.

Cheers and regards,
--
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!

To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I want to try making kir and when I went to the liquor store to check
> out the Creme de Cassis they look kind of cheap and crappy. I have no
> idea what it should taste like. Any suggestions on the best Creme de
> Cassis?
>>

The Champagne cocktail must be mentioned. It can still be found, but it
was seen much more often between the two world wars. Here are some
examples from arond the world in the late 20s to late 30s that were
published by Charles H Baker Jr. who apparently traveled around the
world during most of that era by both commercial ship and his own
private yacht.

To save space, note that all liquids and glassware used must be very
well chilled, as a warm Champagne cocktail is ot a very nice thing. You
often can use any decent sparkling wine instead of Champagne, especially
for versions that have many strong things added.

1. Maharajah's Burra-Peg from Calcutta. In a 14 oz or larger goblet,
pour 2 jiggers of cold Cognac, add a lump of sugar doused with Angostura
bitters. Fill with dry Champagne. Garnish with a spiral of green lime
peel.

2. Baker's Jimmie Roosevelt. Fill a 16 oz goblet with finely cracked
ice. In the center add a lump of sugar well saturated with Angostura
bitters. Then add 2 jiggers of good Cognac. Fill with Champagne.
Carefully float on 2 tbsp of green Chartreuse.

3. Rio de Janeiro Jocky Club. In a large tapered Champagne cocktail
glass build a tower of 4 ice cubes. Place a lump of sugar saturated with
4 dashes of orange bitters on top of the ice. Lean 2 sticks of ripe,
fresh pineapple against the sides of the glass. Encircle the ice tower
with a spiral of green lime peel. Fill with medium-dry Champagne. Float
on 1 tbsp of cointreau.

4. Imperial Cossak Crusta from Shanghai. Use a large Champagne cocktail
glass. Split a lime or lemon lengthwise. Rub the combined oils and
juices over the inside of the glass and 1/2 inch down the outside of the
glass. Dip the lip of the glass in powdered sugar. Then fill the glass
with powdered sugar and empty it. (The powdered sugar should be
extremely fine sugar crystals - not the kind with cornstarch added.) In
a bar glass, stir 2 dashes of orange bitters, 1 jigger of Cognac, and
1/2 jigger of kummel with 3 ice cubes. Empty this into the prepared
goblet, without the ice. Fill with dry Champagne and add a scarlet rose
petal.

5. Ile de France(the ship) Special as prepared by the bar maitre
Reynauld. In a large Champagne glass put a half teaspoon of fine sugar
and a half pony of good Cognac. Fill with dry Champagne. Top with a dash
or two of yellow Chartreuse.

6. Champagne Velvet from Manila. In a large goblet pour equal amounts of
dry Champagne and Guinness Stout at the same time. Stir a bit to mix. If
you offered such a drink to the maker of a fine Champagne, I suspect you
might hear some very colorful French that is not usually used in public.

After writing the above, I remembered that I do not know of anyone who
sells a Champagne cocktail glass today, and I am not certain of the
shape or shapes of them in the 20s and 30s. Perhaps Riedel needs to add
a Champagne cocktail glass to his stable, if he does not have one.

Reply to .

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:08:49 -0500, (Cwdjrx _) said:

] The Champagne cocktail must be mentioned. It can still be found, but it
] was seen much more often between the two world wars. Here are some
] examples from arond the world in the late 20s to late 30s that were
[]

I was browsing through "Le Grand Livre des Calvados" (Editions Charles Orlet,
and "le must" here in the AOC Domfrontais) and came across a couple to
add to your list:

The "Mabel Anne." (Albert Mesnil, Hotel de Dieppe, Rouen). 5/10 Champagne,
2/10 Benedictine, 2/10 Calvados, 1/10 Creme de cassis. Serve in a tumbler
garnished with apple stick and cassis berries.

The "Pommeau Royal." (Jean-Paul Thomine, Casino de Deauville). 5/10 Pommeau,
4/10 Cointreau, 1/10 Lemon juice. Mix in shaker, after finish the glass with
champagne. Garnish with a quarter apple.

-E


--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

"Cwdjrx _" > wrote in message
...
>
> 6. Champagne Velvet from Manila. In a large goblet pour equal amounts of
> dry Champagne and Guinness Stout at the same time. Stir a bit to mix. If
> you offered such a drink to the maker of a fine Champagne, I suspect you
> might hear some very colorful French that is not usually used in public.
>
> After writing the above, I remembered that I do not know of anyone who
> sells a Champagne cocktail glass today, and I am not certain of the
> shape or shapes of them in the 20s and 30s. Perhaps Riedel needs to add
> a Champagne cocktail glass to his stable, if he does not have one.
>
The Champagne Velvet above was also called "Coca Cola Jolie" in the south of
France, at least in the 70's when I lived there. I didn't know that until
after I had been served three of them, en route to my French professor's
home for dinner. My hosts thought it was very funny to give the cute little
American girl Coca Cola, because she asked for it. The drink was served in
large French Moroccan tea glasses, and was very tasty. I've made it with
Northwest porter and Schramsberg sparkling wine with very good results.

Michael Pronay said in part:

Interestingly, a kind of a more simple variation is the drink I always
have at Vienna airport in one of the lounges before take-off: I take a
0.33 l beer glas, put in one serving of crystal sugar (from the coffee
dept.), a decent amount of Cognac (usually Bisquit VSOP), and fill
cautiously (because of the intense foam developping) with domestic
sparkler (usually Kleinoscheg Herzogsmantel). No Angostura, because not
available. Next time I'll try with ice,

______________________________________

Angostura likely is the most common bitters used in the US and is
available nearly everywhere. It is much more aromatic and has less
bitterness than many other bitters. Since there are so many other kinds
of bitters, one could experiment. It is likely that you should use less
of bitters that are very bitter or very strong tasting. Orange bitters
are used by many. Peychaud's bitters from New Orleans are used in the
Sazerac and other New Orleans drinks and can be obtained by mail in the
US. Abbot's bitters, called for in many very old books, may still be
made in Baltimore, MD in the US, but I have never seen them. Boker's
bitters, called for in some books from the 1800s, were made in New York,
but apparetly have not been available for about 100 years. From Europe,
Underberg bitters, Campari, and Fernet-Branca can be found in a few
stores in larger cities.

Now that I have gone somewhat off topic on bitters, I will try to make
it up with a few more mixed drinks using wine that I have found. These
all come from sources published no later than 1951. Most likely come
from just after the end of WWII. As in my last post, everything used
should be quite cold.

1. Maxim's of Paris from Louis Vaudable, then owner of Maxim's. Place 2
brandied cherries(not 'maraschino') in a large saucer champagme glass
with a lump of sugar and crush well. Fill glass with dry Champagne.

2. Chasen's from John Dionne, former head bartender, Chasen's, Los
Angeles. Mix 1 1/2 oz Southern Comfort(contains whiskey, peach, and some
sweetness) with 3/4 oz red Passionola or wild cherry syrup, and juice of
one small lime. Shake well with ice and serve in a special squat glass.
Serve a 4 oz bottle of well-iced pink Champagne in an individual ice
bucket. Fill the glass with the pink Champagne and garnish with a bit of
fresh mint.

3. Toscanini from Hotel Astor, New York City. Use 1 part Cordial Medoc,1
part Cognac, 1 part Cointreau, and 3 parts Champagne. Serve in champagne
glass with ice cube.

4. Champagne Room, from El Morocco, New York City. Place an ice cube in
champagne glass. Add one dash of Cointreau and one dash of brandy. Fill
with Champagne and add twist of lemon peel.

5. Philippe Of The Waldorf from Claude C. Philippe, Host of the
Waldorf-Astoria hotel, New York City. Put 2 dashes of Vieille Cure and
one dash good kirsch in a large saucer champagne glass. Fill with a good
French dry Champagne.

6. Soho from Harry Craddock, The American Bar, The Dorchester, London.
Mix 1/2 part Chianti, 1/4 part Italian vermouth, and 1/4 part grapefruit
juice. Shake well with ice and serve in cocktail glass.

7. General Brock from The General Brock, Niagara Falls, Ontario. Mix 1
oz dry sherry, 1 oz Italian vermouth, 1 oz French vermouth, and a dash
of Angostura bitters. Shake well with ice and serve with a maraschino
cherry in a cocktail glass.

Reply to .

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

[Simple champagne cocktail in airport lounge]

>> No Angostura, because not available.

> Angostura likely is the most common bitters used in the US and
> is available nearly everywhere.

I know what Angostura is, but here we are speaking of a
self-service airport lounge with a very reduced choice of
drinks, not a fully professional cocktail bar.

M.