Noted in a visit to Spain a couple of weeks ago that we could buy wine
at the supermarket for about a buck. Mind you, those wines were
nothing to write home about, however, they were *drinkable*.

Would be great to have ready access to similarly priced products here
in the US, where there seems to be a price hurdle to drinkable wines
which is set higher than the $1 to $2 I noted in Spain.

So, wondering why we can't get cheap but drinkable wine in the US.

Interestingly, the products from the likes of Vina Mayor, Muga, Emilio
Moro and other well-known producers seemed priced roughly equal to
what I get in the US.


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Hola Leo,
I think there are three main reasons why good cheapos are hard to find
here.
1) Property values are rising off the charts, especially in good wine
regions.
2) The wine distribution system is notoriously inefficient and
bureaucratic here.
3) Fuel prices have skyrocketed to about double what they were a few
years ago.

Dan-O

If you buy a 5L box wine such as the Franzia Chardonnay or Cabernet
Sauvignon, it costs well under $US 20. Some of the less popular types
may be close to $10 for 5L in some places. These wines do not have
technical flaws, but they are rather bland and often are a bit sweeter
than experienced wine drinkers like. Thus you can find wine not too far
away from your top limit of $2 per (0.75 L) bottle from as low as about
$1.50 to under $3 per bottle. This is cheaper than some fancy mineral
water I see in the stores. Of course the large box container likely is
cheaper than the several bottles and corks would be to hold the same
amount of wine. Since I have never tasted the really cheap wines sold in
other countries, I have no idea how the US box wines would compare with
them in quality.

Reply to .

Hi Dan,

On 2 Sep 2005 07:27:44 -0700, "Dan The Man" > said:

] Hola Leo,
] I think there are three main reasons why good cheapos are hard to find
] here.
] 1) Property values are rising off the charts, especially in good wine
] regions.

I doubt that decent wine acreage is cheaper in europe. In fact -- due
to the limited area -- I'd not be surprised if it's relatively more expensive.

Add to that the cost of labour and taxes in the EU, which are much
much higher than in the US I believe.

Example in US add 15% per employee salary overhead, in France
add 70%.

] 2) The wine distribution system is notoriously inefficient and
] bureaucratic here.

There are many complaints about distribution markups here, too.

] 3) Fuel prices have skyrocketed to about double what they were a few
] years ago.
]

Again, same for europe. The euro doesn't insulate much because
large taxes are added on a % basis. I certainly sympathize with
what consumers are going through currently visavis gas-shock,
but even at $4/gallon it looks very cheap indeed from this side
of the pond. (Of course, we get some bennies, like decent roads,
social safety and health nets, etc. Personally I'm perfectly happy
to contribute to a socially distributed model for these services,
although I find some exaggeration at the pump...)

So I think there must be some other reasons for the lack of cheap
servicable wine in the US. My assumption has always been that
there is no traditional market segment in this price range, so
no US operator is interested in the very small margins. But
I'm as perplexed as the next about it!

-E
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Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Cwdjrx _ wrote:
> If you buy a 5L box wine such as the Franzia Chardonnay or Cabernet
> Sauvignon, it costs well under $US 20. Some of the less popular types
> may be close to $10 for 5L in some places. These wines do not have
> technical flaws, but they are rather bland and often are a bit sweeter
> than experienced wine drinkers like. Thus you can find wine not too far
> away from your top limit of $2 per (0.75 L) bottle from as low as about
> $1.50 to under $3 per bottle. This is cheaper than some fancy mineral
> water I see in the stores. Of course the large box container likely is
> cheaper than the several bottles and corks would be to hold the same
> amount of wine. Since I have never tasted the really cheap wines sold in
> other countries, I have no idea how the US box wines would compare with
> them in quality.

This is an important point. Historically, the closest thing to "vin de
table" in the US was the "jug wine" segment of the market. Nowadays,
serious wine drinkers mostly dismiss those wines, but prior to 1970
there were some very decent wines marketed in that format. Even Gallo
"Hearty Burgundy" used to be a fairly drinkable mix of old vine Dry
Creek Zinfandel with Central Valley Thompson Seedless. I remember
fondly the jugs of Charles Krug Zinfandel that used to grace our family
dinner table as very honest, foursquare table wine. The problem, of
course, was the format: unless you drank copious amounts, the jug would
maderize fairly quickly and become undrinkable. I suspect that this
same wine didn't make its way into smaller (750 ml) cork-finished
bottles because of a cultural bias: cork-finished wine was considered a
luxury item, whereas jug wine was considered unpretentious.

Of course, this situation came to an end in the wake of the "Judgement
in Paris," when interest in fine wine in the US increased and the grapes
that formerly made good jug wine found their way into bottles selling
for 5x the price -- a good situation for the growers and wineries, but a
loss to the consumers of cheap wine. Fred Franzia is attempting to
redress that situation with his "Two Buck Chuck" lineup and Bronco's
other ventures, but he has to overcome market resistance to things like
box wines, etc.

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton

Sorry for self reply:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:54:25 +0200, Emery Davis > said:

[]
] but even at $4/gallon it looks very cheap indeed from this side
[]

I hope this doesn't appear insensitive, especially as there are millions
still suffering or waiting for news from the disaster area. Like many I
have friends and family in NO, and the disaster, still unfolding, is
unimaginable.

On the subject of gasoline BBC just announced that Britain, Germany
and France have opened their strategic reserves of refined petrol
and will be shipping to the US the equivilent of the output of Kuwait
for the next 2 months. According to the BBC this is already blunting
the very damaging speculation going on.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Taxes! In Washington State, for instance, liquor taxes border on the
insane. I'm certain other states have similar situations. By the time
you add up taxes, bottle price, juice, labor and transportation (not
even allowing for advertising), there isn't much left out that dollar
for profit.

Twenty-five years ago I used to walk into a little store front in
Paris and re-fill an empty wine bottle for two francs. It was decent,
drinkable wine. Of course, the French "get" wine, and didn't have to
endure Prohibition.

Which reminds me...I find it incredible that, 72 years after the
repeal of Prohibition, an individual still cannot legally ship wine to
another individual in this country. Anybody want to follow the money
on that one?

JJ

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:18:12 GMT, Leo Bueno
> wrote:

>Would be great to have ready access to similarly priced products here
>in the US, where there seems to be a price hurdle to drinkable wines
>which is set higher than the $1 to $2 I noted in Spain.
>
>So, wondering why we can't get cheap but drinkable wine in the US.