What are your thoughts on decanting for sediment? Sometimes I get a
bottle that has thrown just a bit of sediment (just enough to see; maybe
several pinheads worth) and I wonder if it's worth decanting for that.
Certainly if there is a significant amount I'd decant (maybe the area of
a thumbnail on the side of the bottle).

What does sediment do to the taste of red wines?

Jose
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Jose wrote:
> What are your thoughts on decanting for sediment? Sometimes I get a
> bottle that has thrown just a bit of sediment (just enough to see; maybe
> several pinheads worth) and I wonder if it's worth decanting for that.
> Certainly if there is a significant amount I'd decant (maybe the area of
> a thumbnail on the side of the bottle).
>
> What does sediment do to the taste of red wines?

Sediment from red wines can taste bitter to many people. This is most
likely to be noticed for full red wines with harsh tannins that require
some age to soften and that often throw quite a bit of sediment. If the
sedimet is fine, it may make the wine somewhat cloudy, and that bothers
some people. In the 1800s many wines were somewhat cloudy, but that
often was not noticed because wine glasses often were colored, heavily
cut, enameled, had gold applied, etc.I would say the tolerance for
sediment in a wine is likely to vary quite a bit from person to person.

Decanting is not the only way to control sediment. If the sediment is
rather heavy, just standing the bottle up for a while and then pouring
carefully often avoids the sediment, except for the last portion of the
wine. A wine basket and careful technique allows pulling the cork and
pouring wine without disturbing the sediment. I have even seen a
mechanical device that clamps the bottle and slowly tilts it to pour as
a crank is turned. I believe such devices were sometimes used in France
in the 1800s. There was even a special version that was made for those
huge Champagne bottles that can hold 16 or more normal bottles of
Champagne. Some of the wine machines that preserve and dispense wine
using an inert gas have tap tubes that can be adjusted just above the
sediment in the wine to avoid it.

> Decanting is not the only way to control sediment...

How about using a pipette to suck the sediment out of the bottle, and
avoiding the whole decanting thing?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose > wrote in news:hlQbf.6689$Kv.2648
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:

>> Decanting is not the only way to control sediment...
>
> How about using a pipette to suck the sediment out of the bottle, and
> avoiding the whole decanting thing?
>
> Jose

But the decanting also aerates the wine and many wines benefit from the
process.


--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

Jose wrote:
> > Decanting is not the only way to control sediment...
>
> How about using a pipette to suck the sediment out of the bottle, and
> avoiding the whole decanting thing?

I remember reading long ago that one of The Burgundy houses did more or
less what you suggested before shipping the wines to certain markets -
was it Louis Latour? They used a tube and a vacuum device to draw out
the sediment before final corking and labeling of some of the wine.
Sediment has never been much of a problem for me, but it could be if
you opened an older wine that had just been shipped or if the wine were
sold on a small ship. Of course if the wine is kept several years
before opening, it may again throw some sediment.

"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>> Decanting is not the only way to control sediment...
>
> How about using a pipette to suck the sediment out of the bottle, and
> avoiding the whole decanting thing?

I suggest that you try that. You'll find it to be an exercise in
frustration and gain a much higher regard for decanting, which is a
surprisingly effective process if you have a steady hand.

Tom S

Jose wrote:

> What does sediment do to the taste of red wines?

Since sediment is polymerized tannins, it tastes bitter.

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
news:aCUbf.530748$_o.89600@attbi_s71...
> Since sediment is polymerized tannins, it tastes bitter.

Hi, Mark -

Something about the polymerization process seems to take away much of the
astringency I'd expect to taste in sediment. IOW, I detect more bitterness
in young wines than I do in the resulting sediment after extended aging.

AFAIC, sediment in wine that hasn't been properly decanted damages mouth
feel - which is not to say that I perceive it as bitterness, per se. Does
that make sense to you?

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> news:aCUbf.530748$_o.89600@attbi_s71...
>
>>Since sediment is polymerized tannins, it tastes bitter.
>
>
> Hi, Mark -
>
> Something about the polymerization process seems to take away much of the
> astringency I'd expect to taste in sediment. IOW, I detect more bitterness
> in young wines than I do in the resulting sediment after extended aging.
>
> AFAIC, sediment in wine that hasn't been properly decanted damages mouth
> feel - which is not to say that I perceive it as bitterness, per se. Does
> that make sense to you?

Yup, it does make sense. The bitterness of tannins (according to the
redoubtable M. Peyraud) is associated with its periphery, so as the
tannin molecules grow bigger, the bitterness decreases with
surface-to-volume ratio. It stands to reason that sediment, with its
much smaller S-to-V, would be even less bitter -- but I do note a
bitterness in the dregs.

Mark Lipton

In article > ,
says...
>
>
>"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
>news:aCUbf.530748$_o.89600@attbi_s71...
>> Since sediment is polymerized tannins, it tastes bitter.
>
>Hi, Mark -
>
>Something about the polymerization process seems to take away much of the
>astringency I'd expect to taste in sediment. IOW, I detect more bitterness
>in young wines than I do in the resulting sediment after extended aging.
>
>AFAIC, sediment in wine that hasn't been properly decanted damages mouth
>feel - which is not to say that I perceive it as bitterness, per se. Does
>that make sense to you?
>
>Tom S

Tom,

I agree completely. At a recent dinner, the sommelier offered up a '01 Rioja,
which was to be decanted. I asked for a light pour of it, prior to the
decanting. A friend and I sampled the pre-decant taste, and cataloged our
impressions. When the decanted glasses came out, we were able to do a bit of
A-B (though the un-decanted wine had now sat in the glass for 30 mins, or so),
and both agreed that the decanted version was smoother. My friend could not
really tell any difference between the two, from first taste of the bottle
pour, to the decanted pour, but I could find definite "tactile" differences
with the mouthfeel. The two pours were good and the aromas and actual taste(s)
were similar, but there was a tannic "edge" in the mouth of the first. I can
describe it best as having a multi-faceted object in my mouth, while with the
decanted wine, it was closer to a sphere, with no edges, or corners - just
more subtle and supple with no "edge."

Hunt

> I asked for a light pour of it, prior to the
> decanting. A friend and I sampled the pre-decant taste, and cataloged our
> impressions. When the decanted glasses came out, we were able to do a bit of
> A-B (though the un-decanted wine had now sat in the glass for 30 mins, or so),
> and both agreed that the decanted version was smoother.

What is the difference? When decanting, you careully pour wine out of
the bottle (but not all of it). The first little bit that comes out
could just as easily go into a glass (your "light pour") and be
essentiallly the same. No?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
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