I've read several discussions about wine temperature. I have learned
over the years that red wine served over 65F has more of an alcoholic
taste. I read several other posts about a wine thermometer that
attaches to the bottle.

Interesting I typed in http://www.in2wine.com to see if the domain was
available. And found a liquid crystal display model that clips onto
the bottle. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether or not
measuring the outside of bottle gives a good representation of the
inside wine temperature.

"Dan" > wrote in news:1133366982.617109.258570
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I've read several discussions about wine temperature. I have learned
> over the years that red wine served over 65F has more of an alcoholic
> taste. I read several other posts about a wine thermometer that
> attaches to the bottle.
>
> Interesting I typed in http://www.in2wine.com to see if the domain was
> available. And found a liquid crystal display model that clips onto
> the bottle. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether or not
> measuring the outside of bottle gives a good representation of the
> inside wine temperature.
>
>


Oh, for pete's sake.
"I have a wine-related website. I think it's a good marketing idea to
pretend tht I found a cool site. Maybe I can sell something to those
chumps at alt.food.wine."

Domain Name: in2wine.com
Registrar: Name.net LLC

Expiration Date: 2006-10-27 14:16:06
Creation Date: 2005-10-27 14:16:06

Name Servers:
NS1.NAME.NET
NS2.NAME.NET

REGISTRANT CONTACT INFO
Farnan,Daniel...

or is it "?

If you people would come out and be honest, you might get my business; as
it is, my feeling is that if you will lie about who you are, then why
should I bother?

d who is a former fraud investigator...

enoavidh wrote:

> Oh, for pete's sake.
> "I have a wine-related website. I think it's a good marketing idea to
> pretend tht I found a cool site. Maybe I can sell something to those
> chumps at alt.food.wine."

> REGISTRANT CONTACT INFO
> Farnan,Daniel...
>
> or is it "?
>
> If you people would come out and be honest, you might get my business; as
> it is, my feeling is that if you will lie about who you are, then why
> should I bother?
>
> d who is a former fraud investigator...

Well, De, we don't want to jump to conclusions, but your case is a
pretty strong one:

1. Registrant's address is in Burlington, NJ and poster's IP address
traces to somewhere near Trenton, NJ

2. They share the same first name

3. has never posted to this or any other Usenet
newsgroup before

4. Dan Farnan *does* have a Yahoo ID, but it's danfarnan, not dnanraph.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and not accuse him of spamming
his own website. Instead, I'll just point out why such a product is
*completely* unnecessary ;-)

1. The people who developed the guidelines for wine serving temperature
were certainly not putting a thermometer inside the bottle to figure out
what temperature the wine was at; they were just using general
temperature figures: room temp (~65 F), cellar temp (~50 F), chilled
(~35 F). Anything more precise is overkill.

2. It isn't exactly rocket science to figure out if a bottle is warm,
cool or cold by simply touching it.

3. The temperature on the outside of the bottle may or may not reflect
the temperature of the wine. Unfortunately, the extent of difference is
governed by a partial differential equation (the heat or diffusion
equation) that depends on the initial temp of the wine, the temp of the
surroundings, the size of the bottle and the heat capacity of all the
materials -- in practical terms, it's best not to even attempt to solve
this.

The bottom line: feel the bottle. If it's a full-bodied red, it should
be slightly cool to the touch; if it's a big white or lighter red it
should be quite cool; if it's a lighter white it should be cold but not
ice cold. No need for any thermometer IMO.

HTH ;-)
Mark Lipton

p.s. Why is it that whenever people want to post "anonymously" to
Usenet, they use Google groups, who dutifully put the poster's IP
address in the headers? Is there some website giving bogus instructions
on how to spam Usenet or something??

Mark Lipton wrote:
<snip>
>
> The bottom line: feel the bottle. If it's a full-bodied red, it should
> be slightly cool to the touch; if it's a big white or lighter red it
> should be quite cool; if it's a lighter white it should be cold but not
> ice cold. No need for any thermometer IMO.
>
Hi Mark,
I have a device that clips around the bottle, and also a temperature
"probe" that is inserted into the bottle after opening. I don't use
either one and I would certainly agree with "feel the bottle".

Dick R.

in article , Mark Lipton at
wrote on 11/30/05 9:51 AM:

>
> Well, De, we don't want to jump to conclusions, but your case is a
> pretty strong one:
>
> 1. Registrant's address is in Burlington, NJ and poster's IP address
> traces to somewhere near Trenton, NJ
>
> 2. They share the same first name
>
> 3. has never posted to this or any other Usenet
> newsgroup before
>
> 4. Dan Farnan *does* have a Yahoo ID, but it's danfarnan, not dnanraph.
>
> I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and not accuse him of spamming
> his own website. Instead, I'll just point out why such a product is
> *completely* unnecessary ;-)

Mark,

Not sure if you noted that "dnanraph" is "pharnand" spelled backwards. "D
Pharnan" vs. "Dan Farnan"??? Too close for coincidence, I'd bet.

Not worth the discussion really, but this guy is creative anyway. In the
end, if anyone clicks on his site, he's ahead of the game.

Midlife > wrote in :

>
> Not sure if you noted that "dnanraph" is "pharnand" spelled backwards.
> "D Pharnan" vs. "Dan Farnan"??? Too close for coincidence, I'd bet.
>
> Not worth the discussion really, but this guy is creative anyway. In
> the end, if anyone clicks on his site, he's ahead of the game.
>
>

Just makes me *cranky* :P

Anyways, the FAQ, which seems to be missing in action, but is able to be
accessed at web.archive.org says:

"3.2 If I work in the wine business, am I welcome to post on
alt.food.wine?

Absolutely! Alt.food.wine welcomes all people who are interested in
wine. Although alt.food.wine is a noncommercial group, we have many
contributors who are in the trade, and we value their knowledge and
opinions. ->>>However, you should be careful to keep your contributions
from becoming "stealth ads" for your business (group members are
generally smart enough to notice). If you are commenting on a subject in
which you have some financial interest (e.g. you are describing a wine
which you import or distribute), it is a good idea to disclose your
connection in your post." <<<-

(will wrap)
http://web.archive.org/web/200410130...om.au/afw-faq/
guide.htm

Maybe if I have time over the holidays, I'll check the links, and if
it's possible to host on a Geocities site, I'll throw a copy up there.
Otherwise, if anyone else can host the FAQ, I'd be happy to help in
whatever way I can... d

Midlife wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Not sure if you noted that "dnanraph" is "pharnand" spelled backwards. "D
> Pharnan" vs. "Dan Farnan"??? Too close for coincidence, I'd bet.

Good call. I'd tried rearranging letters but got stuck on "dna" for
"dan" and missed the obvious. OK, so he's a spammer...

>
> Not worth the discussion really, but this guy is creative anyway. In the
> end, if anyone clicks on his site, he's ahead of the game.
>
>
Agreed about the former, but clicks on his website won't add a penny to
sales. Unless they sell advertising to others (doubtful) all the
traffic could do is bog down their server. ;-)

Mark Lipton

in article TNDjf.584328$x96.558274@attbi_s72, Mark Lipton at
wrote on 12/1/05 6:30 AM:


>
>>
>> Not worth the discussion really, but this guy is creative anyway. In the
>> end, if anyone clicks on his site, he's ahead of the game.
>>
>>
> Agreed about the former, but clicks on his website won't add a penny to
> sales. Unless they sell advertising to others (doubtful) all the
> traffic could do is bog down their server. ;-)
>
> Mark Lipton

I understand, but was thinking that a click on his site is an
'impact/rergistration' of whatever it's selling. I haven't clicked on it
myself, but would think the page that comes up shows the name/product and it
registers with the viewer. That's step one in what he wants. If that weren't
basically valid I wouldn't be getting 50+ spam e-mails every day on my
regular e-mail address. I doubt anyone here would help his sales, but the
whole point of spam marketing is to saturate and hope for some small
response %.

Just as an aside...... The particular e-mail address I use here is used ONLY
on AFW, so the only way it gets picked up is by 'skimmers'. I delete an
average of 200 spam messages per day from this mailbox.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:51:57 -0500
Mark Lipton > wrote:

] enoavidh wrote:
]
] > Oh, for pete's sake.

Succinctly put!

[]
] 1. The people who developed the guidelines for wine serving temperature
] were certainly not putting a thermometer inside the bottle to figure out
] what temperature the wine was at; they were just using general
] temperature figures: room temp (~65 F), cellar temp (~50 F), chilled
] (~35 F). Anything more precise is overkill.
]
] 2. It isn't exactly rocket science to figure out if a bottle is warm,
] cool or cold by simply touching it.
]

This business of the "correct" temperature is vastly over-rated, anyway.
The point is to experience maximum pleasure from the drink; which
for most true sybarites involves more gusto and less analysis.
Enjoy already, and quit kvetching.

] 3. The temperature on the outside of the bottle may or may not reflect
] the temperature of the wine. Unfortunately, the extent of difference is
] governed by a partial differential equation (the heat or diffusion
] equation) that depends on the initial temp of the wine, the temp of the
] surroundings, the size of the bottle and the heat capacity of all the
] materials -- in practical terms, it's best not to even attempt to solve
] this.
]

Are you implying, sir, that the whole problem is caused by the French?
Not only do they perfect (one might argue) the art of wine making,
they go ahead and come up with the analytical theory of heat (diffusion)?
And insist on 50 C cellars??

Actually Fourier's book is surprisingly accessible to the layman. It
was included in the "Great Books" series that my folks had, and I
was able to take a reasonable whack at it in high school with only
basic calculus. He has a very physical and geometrical approach to
the whole problem. I confess I had an easier time of it in real analysis,
but the book does convey some of the beauty of boundary value pde's
without insisting on more arcane variational techniques.

Totally useless when it comes to the thoroughly tactile decision
of "is it warm/cold enough?"

] The bottom line: feel the bottle. If it's a full-bodied red, it should
] be slightly cool to the touch; if it's a big white or lighter red it
] should be quite cool; if it's a lighter white it should be cold but not
] ice cold. No need for any thermometer IMO.
]

Some one gave me one once. I've never used it.

] HTH ;-)
] Mark Lipton
]
] p.s. Why is it that whenever people want to post "anonymously" to
] Usenet, they use Google groups, who dutifully put the poster's IP
] address in the headers? Is there some website giving bogus instructions
] on how to spam Usenet or something??

Why do tennis players wear white shorts?

Oh well. Adele's on the road, I might as well go and finish the bottle!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

Emery Davis wrote:


> Are you implying, sir, that the whole problem is caused by the French?
> Not only do they perfect (one might argue) the art of wine making,
> they go ahead and come up with the analytical theory of heat (diffusion)?
> And insist on 50 C cellars??

LOL!
>
> Actually Fourier's book is surprisingly accessible to the layman. It
> was included in the "Great Books" series that my folks had, and I
> was able to take a reasonable whack at it in high school with only
> basic calculus. He has a very physical and geometrical approach to
> the whole problem. I confess I had an easier time of it in real analysis,
> but the book does convey some of the beauty of boundary value pde's
> without insisting on more arcane variational techniques.

Actually, I'd think first of D'Alambert, another Frenchie, whose
solution applies both to this pde and the wave equation IIRC.

>
> Totally useless when it comes to the thoroughly tactile decision
> of "is it warm/cold enough?"

agreed


> Why do tennis players wear white shorts?

Because they'd be arrested for indecent exposure if they didn't, silly!

Mark Lipton

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:37:29 -0500
Mark Lipton > wrote:

] Emery Davis wrote:
[]
] Actually, I'd think first of D'Alambert, another Frenchie, whose
] solution applies both to this pde and the wave equation IIRC.
]

Really? I don't recall seeing the wave equation applied here,
although it's certainly a classic (and attractive) boundary value
problem. Could be wrong, of course. If I had seen your post
last night after the Vinsobres I'd probably have been tempted
to dig out some references, but in the cold light of day other
subjects seem more pressing... (Was just demonstrating
standing wave frequencies to my kids with a slinky the other
day, something all kids love to see and do. I forgot to
mention d'Alambert!)

[]
] > Why do tennis players wear white shorts?
]
] Because they'd be arrested for indecent exposure if they didn't, silly!
]
]

<g> Ah ha!

Back on topic, our house has settled down to the regular 60F
it holds during the winter months. I can get a bottle a little
higher than that by sticking it right next to the fire, but
otherwise "red too warm" is not really a problem in the
fog shrouded forests of Normandy.

Hmm, think I'll put another sweater on.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

In article >, says
....
>
>enoavidh wrote:
[SNIP]

>
>Well, De, we don't want to jump to conclusions, but your case is a
>pretty strong one:

[SNIP]
>
>The bottom line: feel the bottle. If it's a full-bodied red, it should
>be slightly cool to the touch; if it's a big white or lighter red it
>should be quite cool; if it's a lighter white it should be cold but not
>ice cold. No need for any thermometer IMO.
>
>HTH ;-)
>Mark Lipton

And, with far too many restaurants in the US, be prepared to let any bottle of
white wine sit on the table, and ask for an ice bucket for almost every red.
There are exceptions, of course, but "ice-cold" whites and "kitchen-temp" reds
are all too common. [Just a pet peeve]

Hunt

PS, I gave up on the anal, analytical practice of monitoring the exact serving
temp on my wine years ago, as it cut into my "drinking time." However, I'll
admit that I did get hung up on it for some years, much to my regret.

I once got a wine thermometer
(http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...0?dmode=source)

but can't say I've ever really seen the need.