Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and
confusing but on the other hand, nobody rants about French labels. It seems
everyone in the World reads French. As an Asian who doesn't understand both
languages, the two are as uninterpretable. So much has been raved about the
Sauternes but only few have heard about the Trockenbeerenauslese which is as
tasty. Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot
less. In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. Many people's genuine
taste and liking are somewhat clouded by brands, trend and fashion. A good
example would be like some of the nouveau riches in China who bought French
classics like the Petrus to show that they are into sophisticated wine
drinking but privately drank them with some lemonade. An Italian Lambrusco
would have kept them happier for just a fraction of what they had spent.

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:

> I think you are touching on a lot of interesting points in a very
> confused manner.

I agree!!!
>
> Given the above, and in the spirit of your email, trying to
> extrapolate as generic a statement as possible from my limited but not
> trivial wine experience, my impression is that in France I can drink
> truly excellent wine at prices ranging from 5 to 12 Euro, while in
> neighbouring Italy (and I am a native italian that spends a few days
> every month there) for that price range it is almost impossible to
> find anything comparable in quality. Note that 8 years ago I would
> have firmly stated the opposite, wines prices in Italy have gone
> throuhg the roof since.
>

So true also in Spain. 8 years ago (about the time I got interested in
wine), I could find very interesting wines in the 5 euros range. I learnt
a lot in the sub-1000 pesetas (equivalent to 6 euros) with wines from the
known and the emerging D.O.s. No longer. Plonk wines in that category
probably remain in the sub-7 euros (account for inflation, if you want)
but the good ones have even doubled its price.

80% of the new wines that arrive to the market are over 15 euros now in
Spain, it does not matter if it comes from a prestigious D.O. where land
is expensive or an emerging one. I would not care if the wine was good,
but 75% of the time, they are selling ordinaire wine in a nice bottle at
an outrageously price. And many of the wines carry an oak excedent that
the grapes did not merit in any way.

At the same time, dealers are bringing excellent wines from other
countries, and you can find austrian whites that are better than 90% of
the spanish whites at a fraction of the cost. I have even bought and
drunk Premier Cru Chablis from good vintages at prices in the 6-7 euros
frontier. Last week I bought a Bordeaux Superieur at 4,85 euros in El
Corte Ingles which was very, very nice. A good merlot based blend with a
touch of oak, not a single defect, and easy to drink. Ok, not La
Conseillante, but better than 99% of the spanish wine below 5 euros.

And then I started thinking of what I had written a couple of days
before, and went back to the shop and bought 6 more bottles to help this
good producer get out from the crisis. And my wallet, I must add.

Best,

S.

"Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "

Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.

"Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
lot
less."

Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.

" In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. "

Recent, or 1976?

While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
styles (especially in whites) than France.

Five things I do not like about the French or what they call their
government
1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2--In about 1943 when it was clear
the Axis was not going to run over the Allies a few back tracked and tried
to hide the deportations, work camps etc

2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the Japanese out in
1945, we let the French back in--instead of granting independence---How well
did that work?

3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such stable governments
as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran. Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit
acceptance by their government---if we cross the border to get him will it
sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to give the jihads the
nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle France

4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and the purchase of oil
from the more anti-American countries lead to denunciation of Israel and/or
Zionism and the virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies & Lapin gets
stronger

5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US & Brits involved
in the first World War over spheres of influence. If they kept their cool
in 1914 our boys never would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany leading to the
rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson
at Versailles.

The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've been paying that
ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles) with our soldiers blood ever
since. Oh yeah thanks for the Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it
up?--those cowboy US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford public lynchings
like the Dreyfuss affair.

So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois smokes & oeufs and
shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone and the better reasonably priced
Burgs and drink them. I would not boycott them--boycotting is not an
American value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our dollars. Yes they
make the world best wine and charge dearly for it while they slip some
Moroccan plonk into Burgundy bottles





"DaleW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
>
> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
>
> "Somehow the
> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
> France,
> paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
> reality,
> wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
> lot
> less."
>
> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
> point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
> Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.
>
> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
> when they realized the top wine voted was American. "
>
> Recent, or 1976?
>
> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
> many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
> does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
> that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
> France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
> a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
> Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
> styles (especially in whites) than France.
>

Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:

JBR> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
JBR> Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
JBR> of granting independence---How well did that work?

JBR> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
JBR> stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
JBR> Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
JBR> government---if we cross the border to get him will it
JBR> sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
JBR> give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
JBR> France

JBR> 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
JBR> the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
JBR> lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
JBR> virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
JBR> Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
JBR> & Lapin gets stronger

JBR> 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
JBR> & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
JBR> influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
JBR> would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
JBR> policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
JBR> leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
JBR> Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.

JBR> The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
JBR> been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
JBR> with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
JBR> Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
JBR> US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
JBR> resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
JBR> public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.

JBR> So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
JBR> smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
JBR> and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
JBR> would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
JBR> value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

JBR> So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
JBR> dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
JBR> dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
JBR> Burgundy bottles

JBR> "DaleW" > wrote in message
JBR>
oups.com...
??>> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
??>>
??>> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
??>>
??>> "Somehow the
??>> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
??>> only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
??>> Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
??>> Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
??>> a lot less."
??>>
??>> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
??>> prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
??>> wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
??>> release prices of most top German TBAs.
??>>
??>> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
??>> astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
??>> American. "
??>>
??>> Recent, or 1976?
??>>
??>> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
??>> the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
??>> One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
??>> Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
??>> "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
??>> to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
??>> offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
??>> would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
??>> they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
??>> whites) than France.
??>>

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
(Unless, the post is a forgery.)

James Silverton.

No forgery--just payback time for inflicting Maurice Chevalier on
us-Actually I was chanalling Karl Rove.............
"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote in message
. ..
> Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:
>
> JBR> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
> JBR> Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
> JBR> of granting independence---How well did that work?
>
> JBR> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
> JBR> stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
> JBR> Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
> JBR> government---if we cross the border to get him will it
> JBR> sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
> JBR> give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
> JBR> France
>
> JBR> 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
> JBR> the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
> JBR> lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
> JBR> virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
> JBR> Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
> JBR> & Lapin gets stronger
>
> JBR> 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
> JBR> & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
> JBR> influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
> JBR> would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
> JBR> policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
> JBR> leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
> JBR> Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.
>
> JBR> The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
> JBR> been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
> JBR> with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
> JBR> Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
> JBR> US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
> JBR> resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
> JBR> public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.
>
> JBR> So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
> JBR> smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
> JBR> and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
> JBR> would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
> JBR> value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.
>
> JBR> So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
> JBR> dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
> JBR> dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
> JBR> Burgundy bottles
>
> JBR> "DaleW" > wrote in message
> JBR>
> oups.com...
> ??>> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
> ??>>
> ??>> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
> ??>>
> ??>> "Somehow the
> ??>> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
> ??>> only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
> ??>> Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
> ??>> Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
> ??>> a lot less."
> ??>>
> ??>> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
> ??>> prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
> ??>> wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
> ??>> release prices of most top German TBAs.
> ??>>
> ??>> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
> ??>> astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
> ??>> American. "
> ??>>
> ??>> Recent, or 1976?
> ??>>
> ??>> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
> ??>> the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
> ??>> One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
> ??>> Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
> ??>> "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
> ??>> to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
> ??>> offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
> ??>> would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
> ??>> they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
> ??>> whites) than France.
> ??>>
>
> Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
> (Unless, the post is a forgery.)
>
> James Silverton.
>

Is there a gremlin for Tongue in Cheek? Maybe we should have an alt.irony.
group.

"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> James Silverton wrote:
> >
> > Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today! (Unless,
> > the post is a forgery.)
>
> Does not read like JBR to me, I thought the same thing.
>
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?
"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Seemed a little heavy for tongue in cheek...
>
> Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg wrote:
> > Is there a gremlin for Tongue in Cheek? Maybe we should have an
alt.irony.
> > group.
> >
> > "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>James Silverton wrote:
> >>
> >>>Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today! (Unless,
> >>>the post is a forgery.)
> >>
> >>Does not read like JBR to me, I thought the same thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> >>email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" > skrev i melding
. ..
> Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?

Longwood Crow Eater Shiraz

Aussie Shiraz from tiny parcels of Mclaren vale fruit
"Truly cracking" is how senior buyer Thomas Woolrych describes this
gorgeously intense 100% Shiraz, adding that it recently scored top marks in
a buyers' tasting. Praise enough one would think but here's what Parker has
to say "a heady effort revealing rich black cherry and cassis notes, sweet
tannin, full-bodied and a long, lusty finish" and gave it 89 points.

:-) Anders

"Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......

> Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
> their government...

> 1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2

Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
collaborated with the Nazis.


> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China

It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The policeman
of the world".

Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the name
of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) - and
making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look in the
mirror!


> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.

Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.


> 4. Letting the sale of <clipped> products like weapons and the purchase
> of oil

Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
Iraqi oil?


>
> 5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....
>

I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with France.
The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun' which
was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.

Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit that
I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a towns
young men has perished.

With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a first
hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle behind.

You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and the
Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.

Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
write such crap again.

Regards,

st.helier

Screw the crow--I'll take a lamb chop instead, I was drinking Austrailian
Shiraz 20 years ago. A ozian cork-dork came to Baltimore with wife who was
teaching in an exchange program bring many gems Grange, Old Leasinghams, on
& on which he served on many occasions. About 90% of Oz wines in MD were
Kendall-Jackson wannabees. "Dry" whites with some RS. Very Good stickies
and decent reds. By the time he left 12 months later, the wife & a few
bottles stayed. The winesales guys at these tastings told their bosses that
Oz was the next big thing, which moved things a long. My friend was going
to find Winemayven some wines to broker but I lost my big money making line
& I had to refocus on Italy.

Thank you Anders
"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" > skrev i melding
> . ..
> > Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?
>
> Longwood Crow Eater Shiraz
>
> Aussie Shiraz from tiny parcels of Mclaren vale fruit
> "Truly cracking" is how senior buyer Thomas Woolrych describes this
> gorgeously intense 100% Shiraz, adding that it recently scored top marks
in
> a buyers' tasting. Praise enough one would think but here's what Parker
has
> to say "a heady effort revealing rich black cherry and cassis notes, sweet
> tannin, full-bodied and a long, lusty finish" and gave it 89 points.
>
> :-) Anders
>
>

Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....

To bad your schools don't teach the truth :-)




"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......
>
>> Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
>> their government...
>
>> 1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2
>
> Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
> collaborated with the Nazis.
>
>
>> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China
>
> It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The
> policeman of the world".
>
> Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the
> name of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) -
> and making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look
> in the mirror!
>
>
>> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.
>
> Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
> industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.
>
>
>> 4. Letting the sale of <clipped> products like weapons and the purchase
>> of oil
>
> Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
> Iraqi oil?
>
>
>>
>> 5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....
>>
>
> I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with
> France.
> The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun'
> which was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.
>
> Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
> square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit
> that I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a
> towns young men has perished.
>
> With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
> you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a
> first hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle
> behind.
>
> You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and
> the Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.
>
> Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
> write such crap again.
>
> Regards,
>
> st.helier
>

"Richard Neidich" wrote ....

> Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....
>


Dick,

I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!

hny

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote:

> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
> expounding...

>> [...]

> Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
> you never write such crap again.

<clapclapclap> - *very* well roared, lion!

M.

That is blasphemy....:-)


"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Richard Neidich" wrote ....
>
>> Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....
>>
>
>
> Dick,
>
> I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> hny
>
> st.helier
>

Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not write
like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of
facts and lots of hot button phrases. Its been a boring rain soaked day I'm
bored with American football, although I did enjoy the Notre Dame
defeat---talk about hype- I'm still ****ed they let Reagan play George Gipp.

Now 5 things I like about France.

1. They inspired the American revolution and in typical fashion got a tad
carried away
2. They were our protector from Lafayette thru Teddy Roosevelt. They
helped the US as a democracy and empire.
3. After World War I they hosted numerous Americans especially those of
colour. Spending exile time in Paris was Sidney Bechet, Josephine Baker and
many other's first breaths of freedom.. Any country that could stand James
Baldwin for more than a week, is ok by me.
4. Long before Abe Beame and Ed Koch were mayors of New York(considered a
break through) Leon Blum, a Jewish Socialist was France's Premier in the
1930's.
5. Yes St H lots of French welcomed the GI's to France, shaved the heads of
the collaborators and let the Germans buy bad wine while they hid the good
stuff. I make no moral judgments but being under the heal of the Nazi's
forced people to cooperate or starve. The Resistance began in 1939 and
never stopped,for once French of different politics united; and even if we
had to endure De Gaulle's tantrums we did the same for a real
anti-Semite--George Patton. SomeFrench like the Dutch and Scandinavians
harbored Jews from a one way ticket to the camps. Compared to the
collaboration of the Rumanians, Poles, & Austrians I don't think the French
let their humanity down.

All governments are hypocrites, not seeing that they are guilty of the same
flaws as they see in others. Its caused hubris which gets followed by
hemlock. I was in Burgundy & the Rhone and ran into some surly waiters but
you have that at the Stage deli besides that the French brought pommes
frites to America--whats not to like. Any nation that can bring Petrus,
d'Yquem & Guigal can't be all bad

The piece I did on a lunch with Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda as seen by the
"right" is too much in bad taste even for me, so I'll give you a bit if I
can find it--you have to write me for the rest.


"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "st.helier" > wrote:
>
> > "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
> > expounding...
>
> >> [...]
>
> > Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
> > you never write such crap again.
>
> <clapclapclap> - *very* well roared, lion!
>
> M.

Here's a bit of the latest on Hillary & Jane Fonda, two bete noirs of the
fundamentalists...I'm editing the truly obscene




Sludge Report :Liaison between Hillary Clinton and peace activist Jane Fonda
revealed.

"I had tea with Jane', the former First Lady said, "I was halfway though the
organic Earl Grey, when I started to tremble from looking deeply into her
deep eyes. Eyes that saw war and tried to stop it. An ---- that was
mounted by Ted Turner, Tom Hayden, Ho Chi Minh and the backfield of the LA
Rams. My face got flush, perspiration was all over. My loins were aflame
with desire. Jane reached for my hand. I couldn't take it any more and I
jumped Jane's ----------. It was better than Joan Kennedy and as we rolled
around the floor of the Stage Delicatessen, out of the corner of my eye I
saw Ed Koch giving me what I thought was two thumbs up---I was wrong he just
wanted his thumbs in my ------. It was then I knew I had to finish what
Bill had started. I got on my cell and called Monica..................




"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" > wrote in message
. ..
> Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not
write
> like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of
> facts and lots of hot button phrases. Its been a boring rain soaked day
I'm
> bored with American football, although I did enjoy the Notre Dame
> defeat---talk about hype- I'm still ****ed they let Reagan play George
Gipp.
>
> Now 5 things I like about France.
>
> 1. They inspired the American revolution and in typical fashion got a tad
> carried away
> 2. They were our protector from Lafayette thru Teddy Roosevelt. They
> helped the US as a democracy and empire.
> 3. After World War I they hosted numerous Americans especially those of
> colour. Spending exile time in Paris was Sidney Bechet, Josephine Baker
and
> many other's first breaths of freedom.. Any country that could stand James
> Baldwin for more than a week, is ok by me.
> 4. Long before Abe Beame and Ed Koch were mayors of New York(considered a
> break through) Leon Blum, a Jewish Socialist was France's Premier in the
> 1930's.
> 5. Yes St H lots of French welcomed the GI's to France, shaved the heads
of
> the collaborators and let the Germans buy bad wine while they hid the good
> stuff. I make no moral judgments but being under the heal of the Nazi's
> forced people to cooperate or starve. The Resistance began in 1939 and
> never stopped,for once French of different politics united; and even if we
> had to endure De Gaulle's tantrums we did the same for a real
> anti-Semite--George Patton. SomeFrench like the Dutch and Scandinavians
> harbored Jews from a one way ticket to the camps. Compared to the
> collaboration of the Rumanians, Poles, & Austrians I don't think the
French
> let their humanity down.
>
> All governments are hypocrites, not seeing that they are guilty of the
same
> flaws as they see in others. Its caused hubris which gets followed by
> hemlock. I was in Burgundy & the Rhone and ran into some surly waiters
but
> you have that at the Stage deli besides that the French brought pommes
> frites to America--whats not to like. Any nation that can bring Petrus,
> d'Yquem & Guigal can't be all bad
>
> The piece I did on a lunch with Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda as seen by
the
> "right" is too much in bad taste even for me, so I'll give you a bit if I
> can find it--you have to write me for the rest.
>
>
> "Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "st.helier" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
> > > expounding...
> >
> > >> [...]
> >
> > > Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
> > > you never write such crap again.
> >
> > <clapclapclap> - *very* well roared, lion!
> >
> > M.
>
>

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" > wrote in message
...
> Here's a bit of the latest on Hillary & Jane Fonda, two bete noirs of the
> fundamentalists...I'm editing the truly obscene
>
>
>
>
> Sludge Report :Liaison between Hillary Clinton and peace activist Jane
> Fonda
> revealed.

LOL! _Totally_ off topic, but funny. :^D

Forwarding...

S moT

st.helier wrote:
> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......
>
>
>>Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
>>their government...
>
>
>>1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2
>
>
> Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
> collaborated with the Nazis.
>
>

One big difference, it was the French government that went lock step
with the Nazis. We had a few fringe groups that was all.

Calm down Mike - Take a deep breath!

Children will be children!

Now, did you open that dessert wine and Sauvignon I left with you?

Happy New Year, mate - and best wishes to Cathy!

You do realise that the whole four of us were so totally enchanted by that
section of coast between Marseille and Toulon that we are coming back -
probably 2007!

Now, April is a reeally nice time to visit NZ - <hint-hint>

Regards

st.helier

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:11:10 -0500, "Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg"
> wrote:

>Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not write
>like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of
>facts and lots of hot button phrases

Joe, now everyone's more or less calmed down, I want to make a
suggestion. Don't take dumb challenges. Your post, joke or not was off
topic and offensive, not because YOU believe what you wrote, but
because - true OR false - they were designed to be. We can all write
offensive claptrap that we don't believe, but afw is not the place for
it. Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger, or
alt.flame.frogs and send your spoofs there, there's a good chap. let
us know in advance and we might stand on the sidelines and cheer.

Remember you managed to offend people here a few times before with
your "eversowitty" posts that weren't. When WILL you learn?


--
All the best
Ian Hoare

Ian Hoare > wrote:

> Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger
^
schwarzenegger

scnr,

M.

I see complete morons with lots of cash buying wine solely for its name
value all the time in the wine shops. Opus One, etc.

Marketing-driven idiots...


Raymond wrote:
> Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and
> confusing but on the other hand, nobody rants about French labels. It seems
> everyone in the World reads French. As an Asian who doesn't understand both
> languages, the two are as uninterpretable. So much has been raved about the
> Sauternes but only few have heard about the Trockenbeerenauslese which is as
> tasty. Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? Somehow the
> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France,
> paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality,
> wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot
> less. In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
> when they realized the top wine voted was American. Many people's genuine
> taste and liking are somewhat clouded by brands, trend and fashion. A good
> example would be like some of the nouveau riches in China who bought French
> classics like the Petrus to show that they are into sophisticated wine
> drinking but privately drank them with some lemonade. An Italian Lambrusco
> would have kept them happier for just a fraction of what they had spent.

Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the
most repulsive people on Earth.


Ian Hoare wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:11:10 -0500, "Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg"
> > wrote:
>
> >Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not write
> >like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of
> >facts and lots of hot button phrases
>
> Joe, now everyone's more or less calmed down, I want to make a
> suggestion. Don't take dumb challenges. Your post, joke or not was off
> topic and offensive, not because YOU believe what you wrote, but
> because - true OR false - they were designed to be. We can all write
> offensive claptrap that we don't believe, but afw is not the place for
> it. Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger, or
> alt.flame.frogs and send your spoofs there, there's a good chap. let
> us know in advance and we might stand on the sidelines and cheer.
>
> Remember you managed to offend people here a few times before with
> your "eversowitty" posts that weren't. When WILL you learn?
>
>
> --
> All the best
> Ian Hoare

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:25:04 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

>Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
>> Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger
> ^
> schwarzenegger

Quite right, and it's even spelt that way in the news group.
ATB
Ian

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

you're too kind.........
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the
> most repulsive people on Earth.
>
>
> Ian Hoare wrote:
> > On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:11:10 -0500, "Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not
write
> > >like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum
of
> > >facts and lots of hot button phrases
> >
> > Joe, now everyone's more or less calmed down, I want to make a
> > suggestion. Don't take dumb challenges. Your post, joke or not was off
> > topic and offensive, not because YOU believe what you wrote, but
> > because - true OR false - they were designed to be. We can all write
> > offensive claptrap that we don't believe, but afw is not the place for
> > it. Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger, or
> > alt.flame.frogs and send your spoofs there, there's a good chap. let
> > us know in advance and we might stand on the sidelines and cheer.
> >
> > Remember you managed to offend people here a few times before with
> > your "eversowitty" posts that weren't. When WILL you learn?
> >
> >
> > --
> > All the best
> > Ian Hoare
>

"Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg" > wrote in
:

> you're too kind.........
>

Please don't feed the trolls.

Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg wrote:
> you're too kind.........

Grazi!

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the
> most repulsive people on Earth.
>
Can't agree. On a recent trip to France (October '05) I found the French
people we met ( in St Emilion and Paris) unfailingly kind helpful and
welcoming. Even to someone like myself with my ghastly year 10 schoolboy
Australian accented French. To my surprise the shopkeepers were most polite
and always greeted us with a cheerful bonjour and au revoir. Quite unlike
the surly or indiffernt staff you encounter in say, Melbourne.

The wines, though very different in style from those in Oz were excellent
and great value for money.

Cheers!
Martin

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the
>> most repulsive people on Earth.

Are you yourself gunning for that slot Michael? In my book you're a
contender! ;^)

FWIW, on my first trip to Europe I landed in Paris for a stay of a few days,
en route to Italy. Having heard that Parisians are the snobbiest of the
French, I arrived expecting the worst.

To my surprise and delight, I found Parisians to be pretty much like people
everywhere else: If you are polite and nice to them they respond in kind.
I expected them to be aloof and rude - especially since I don't speak
French - but I managed to get by on only English, with the occasional merci
beaucoup thrown in. The only rude Parisian I encountered was a clerk in a
chocolate shop - but that encounter could have just as easily happened here
in Los Angeles.

It's a minor national pastime here (and elsewhere) to make fun of the French
(and I'll admit to participating occasionally), but truth be told their
Country is very beautiful and they have their act together a lot better than
most of the rest of the world - despite their socialist government. Their
food and wine is, at its best, legendary, and even their infrastructure is
quite good. Well, except for CdG airport maybe. :^/

Although I'm a proud citizen of the best Country in the world, I'm always
happy to visit France.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

"Tom S" > wrote in message
. net...
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
> Although I'm a proud citizen of the best Country in the world, I'm always
> happy to visit France.
>
> Tom S
> www.chateauburbank.com
Tom - It's always great to chat to a fellow Australian!
Martin
PS is there an emoticom for the ironic?

"Martin Field" > wrote:

> PS is there an emoticom for the ironic?

;-)

M.

"Martin Field" > wrote:

>> Although I'm a proud citizen of the best Country in the world,
>> I'm always happy to visit France.

> Tom - It's always great to chat to a fellow Australian!

There's a typo: an "al" too much.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "Martin Field" > wrote:
>
>>> Although I'm a proud citizen of the best Country in the world,
>>> I'm always happy to visit France.
>
>> Tom - It's always great to chat to a fellow Australian!
>
> There's a typo: an "al" too much.

Touche, Michael! :^)

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

F_____ food is an abomination.

Sauces on everything!

Italian trgional cooking is FAR superior.

F______ films? Nothing but talk, talk, talk. Nothing EVER happens.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...v=glance&n=130

F_____ philosophy? Are you kidding? Sartre? Or any number of other
idiots...

F_____ music? Compared to...Wagner, Mozart, or a whole lotta
Italians....



Tom S wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >> Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the
> >> most repulsive people on Earth.
>
> Are you yourself gunning for that slot Michael? In my book you're a
> contender! ;^)
>
> FWIW, on my first trip to Europe I landed in Paris for a stay of a few days,
> en route to Italy. Having heard that Parisians are the snobbiest of the
> French, I arrived expecting the worst.
>
> To my surprise and delight, I found Parisians to be pretty much like people
> everywhere else: If you are polite and nice to them they respond in kind.
> I expected them to be aloof and rude - especially since I don't speak
> French - but I managed to get by on only English, with the occasional merci
> beaucoup thrown in. The only rude Parisian I encountered was a clerk in a
> chocolate shop - but that encounter could have just as easily happened here
> in Los Angeles.
>
> It's a minor national pastime here (and elsewhere) to make fun of the French
> (and I'll admit to participating occasionally), but truth be told their
> Country is very beautiful and they have their act together a lot better than
> most of the rest of the world - despite their socialist government. Their
> food and wine is, at its best, legendary, and even their infrastructure is
> quite good. Well, except for CdG airport maybe. :^/
>
> Although I'm a proud citizen of the best Country in the world, I'm always
> happy to visit France.
>
> Tom S
> www.chateauburbank.com

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

You're repeating yourself
You're repeating yourself
You're repeating yourself
You're repeating yourself

Wank; Wank; Wank; Wank; <plonk>

Mike do you do Louise wit zat accent you could be ze great Maurice C.
"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Tom S wrote:
> > It's a minor national pastime here (and elsewhere) to make fun of
> the French
> > (and I'll admit to participating occasionally), but truth be told their
> > Country is very beautiful and they have their act together a lot better
than
> > most of the rest of the world - despite their socialist government.
>
> Monsieur Tom, but zees is not a socialist government, zees is ze
> rightwing government, which is in fact quite socialist. It was ze
> socialists that got into privatisations and globalisation and vive les
> USA...
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"st.helier" > wrote:

> ... <plonk>

You have read him until now?

He's in my filter since day 2 or 3 on this board.

M.

"Michael Pronay" wrote

> You have read him until now?
>
> He's in my filter since day 2 or 3 on this board.


No Michael - I actually use three different computers - this one is a new
one in my office, and I had neglected to "nuke" uranium cranium.

He is now g-o-n-e!!!!!

I read that you have been having a cold spell there in Austria.

I shall think of you this evening when I am picnicing at the beach, after
work (cold cuts if chicken; salad and Sauvignon) - Aahhhhh!

--

Regards

St.H

I heard there were some beached whales in NZ. They thought it strange that
they ate chicken with wine. :-)



"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Pronay" wrote
>
>> You have read him until now?
>>
>> He's in my filter since day 2 or 3 on this board.
>
>
> No Michael - I actually use three different computers - this one is a new
> one in my office, and I had neglected to "nuke" uranium cranium.
>
> He is now g-o-n-e!!!!!
>
> I read that you have been having a cold spell there in Austria.
>
> I shall think of you this evening when I am picnicing at the beach, after
> work (cold cuts if chicken; salad and Sauvignon) - Aahhhhh!
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> St.H
>