I have a 1966 Beaulieu Vineyard Georges Latour Private Reserve
Cabernet and a 1982 Sebastiani Cabernet that I want to sell.
I cannot sell them on e-Bay (restrictions on Wine sales) so
any ideas how I can sell them ?
A chap I work with said it's illegal to do this ?? I hate to pour them
down the drain.
Any ideas ?

Thanks,
Richard S.

Richard W. Solomon, W1KSZ wrote:
> I have a 1966 Beaulieu Vineyard Georges Latour Private Reserve
> Cabernet and a 1982 Sebastiani Cabernet that I want to sell.
> I cannot sell them on e-Bay (restrictions on Wine sales) so
> any ideas how I can sell them ?
> A chap I work with said it's illegal to do this ?? I hate to pour them
> down the drain.
> Any ideas ?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard S.
Sell them or pour them down the drain? Do you drink wine or are you
just trolling?

If you've had proper storage, the '66 BV GdlT is probably worth $100.
My guess is a Sebastiani would be worth more like $20. I could be
wrong, Tom S. might have more info.

Winecommune.com is best bet for selling yourself. Winebid.com is
another possibility.

Prices will be much lower if bottles are in iffy condition or you can't
prove good storage.

"DaleW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> If you've had proper storage, the '66 BV GdlT is probably worth $100.
> My guess is a Sebastiani would be worth more like $20. I could be
> wrong, Tom S. might have more info.

I well remember the 66 BV. If it's been cellared impeccably I'd pay $100
for it. I don't know anything about the Sebastiani.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

Depending on storage. the 66 BV is a classic although I've preferred the
70--- the Sebastiani is vin ordinaire no matter how it was stored.
Yes it is illegal to see wine privately, so is jaywalking and sodomy in some
states. If all you have of the BV is one bottle--none of the auction houses
that buy wines will deal with even if it was in pristine condition. Some
wineshop might offer you $150 for it unless you were the only person owning
this wine and you bought it in the very early 70's...most wine merchants at
the time paid little attention to storage especially a domestic wine, so
only if bought it the winery or one of leading stores at the time. If your
uncle Velvel gave you the bottle, who knows. A good bottle of the 66 with a
good shoulder fill-no lower then the neck is intrinsically worth $250-300,
you are drinking history in 1966 you had only Inglenook, Krug, Sebastiani
and Louis Martini selling cabs outside of California and NY's 21 club.
Heitz, Mondavi may have made something but was one of the first vintages.
Its possible some of the Sonoma-Mendocino producers made a vintage cab(Simi,
Fetzere, Parducci, Wente, Concannon) but they concentrated their effort on
other wines. Leon Adams Wine in America may have this information. Any was
Andre Tschallochef(sp) was BV's winemaker and he made serious cab & pinot
noir before things broke loose in 1970 or so. Inglenook was competitive
until they like BV were bought by Hublein. Frankly, no one at Inglenook
stood up to new owners before long grand old Inglenook became a jug wine
house with impressive facilities for tourists but other than charbono and an
occasional cask numbered Cab, wines from the 60's & 70's were unimpressive.
I went to a tasting there their during one of the early Napa auctions.
Sebastiani was a typical italian owned first & second generation winery
making good, inexpensive wines until August or Sam? died or became too ill.
The children went through several decades of internecine warfare with
themselves, banks, & outside partners, some of the children like Sam II
tried to make finer wines and some formed their own independent wineries.
Sebastiani was always a nice stop near the town square in Sonoma. They
never were world beaters but they always made decent reliable wines.........

Anyway, I'm rambling, must be the caffeine I shouldn't have had, unless you
just don't like or have no friend invite some people over buy some recent BV
& Sebastiani have some nice cheese and drink the suckers....you're not going
to pay off your mortgage selling the wine..........IMHO of course

"Richard W. Solomon, W1KSZ" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 1966 Beaulieu Vineyard Georges Latour Private Reserve
> Cabernet and a 1982 Sebastiani Cabernet that I want to sell.
> I cannot sell them on e-Bay (restrictions on Wine sales) so
> any ideas how I can sell them ?
> A chap I work with said it's illegal to do this ?? I hate to pour them
> down the drain.
> Any ideas ?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard S.

"Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg" > wrote:

> Andre Tschallochef(sp)

Andre Tchelistcheff.

M.

In article >, says...
>
>Depending on storage. the 66 BV is a classic although I've preferred the
>70--- the Sebastiani is vin ordinaire no matter how it was stored.

[SNIP]
Mondavi may have made something
[SNIP]

Joe,

In '97 R Mondavi hosted a 30yr retrospective of his Cabs (sans '84-85) in
Denver. The first one (he claimed that it was his first "released" vintage)
was '67, and was drinking wonderfully then. While there may have been "test
batches" of Cab from him before, I think that he missed the '66 vintage.

Just a side-note,
Hunt

Hunt: My guess is that your right about Mondavi, I think when he opened up
it may have fume blanc, chenin blanc & gamay rose as he first commercial
releases. I have a wine guide to California that mentions some of the wines
of the 60s. It was a paperback by Signet, I also have a book by Bob Thomson
from the early 70's coffee table style that dealt with the first wave I
remember Yverdon and Cuvaison was in it. If i'm not mistaken 75 was
Mondavi's first cab Reserve--although the 1970 came in Unfiltered & Unfined.
71 & 72 were so years and people like Chapallet made good 73s but 1974 was a
break out year. I thought 70 was the better vintage. When I visited
California, I'd hit all the wineshops & built a nice stock of cabs from
66-74 for tastings, other than Diamond Creek, I had about everybody worth
having. The best wine in those tastings was the 70 BV, then three wines from
Milton Eisele were terrific; the 1971 Ridge Eisele, the 1974 Conn Creek
(made by a bankrupt Lyndhurst) and a wine made for Mr Eisele in 1971 by
Norman Mini who was employed by Mondavi. Starting 1975 Phelps had the
Eisele until it went to Arrujo. Mini made Eisele wine for their household
until his death in 1975 or 76. A small winery in Berkeley, Travis Fretter
then made Mr Eisele's wine as as his own cab. Eisele was a Kaiser exec and
Fretter a typical laid back "hippie" yet side by side Fretter's Eisele did
well not as good as the Mini or Phelps bottling. Fretter did sell some
Eisele cab commercially with a Napa Valley designation.

More then you ever wanted to know............
"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
> >
> >Depending on storage. the 66 BV is a classic although I've preferred the
> >70--- the Sebastiani is vin ordinaire no matter how it was stored.
>
> [SNIP]
> Mondavi may have made something
> [SNIP]
>
> Joe,
>
> In '97 R Mondavi hosted a 30yr retrospective of his Cabs (sans '84-85) in
> Denver. The first one (he claimed that it was his first "released"
vintage)
> was '67, and was drinking wonderfully then. While there may have been
"test
> batches" of Cab from him before, I think that he missed the '66 vintage.
>
> Just a side-note,
> Hunt
>

In article >, says...
>
>Hunt: My guess is that your right about Mondavi, I think when he opened up
>it may have fume blanc, chenin blanc & gamay rose as he first commercial
>releases. I have a wine guide to California that mentions some of the wines
>of the 60s. It was a paperback by Signet, I also have a book by Bob Thomson
>from the early 70's coffee table style that dealt with the first wave I
>remember Yverdon and Cuvaison was in it. If i'm not mistaken 75 was
>Mondavi's first cab Reserve--although the 1970 came in Unfiltered & Unfined.
>71 & 72 were so years and people like Chapallet made good 73s but 1974 was a
>break out year. I thought 70 was the better vintage. When I visited
>California, I'd hit all the wineshops & built a nice stock of cabs from
>66-74 for tastings, other than Diamond Creek, I had about everybody worth
>having. The best wine in those tastings was the 70 BV, then three wines from
>Milton Eisele were terrific; the 1971 Ridge Eisele, the 1974 Conn Creek
>(made by a bankrupt Lyndhurst) and a wine made for Mr Eisele in 1971 by
>Norman Mini who was employed by Mondavi. Starting 1975 Phelps had the
>Eisele until it went to Arrujo. Mini made Eisele wine for their household
>until his death in 1975 or 76. A small winery in Berkeley, Travis Fretter
>then made Mr Eisele's wine as as his own cab. Eisele was a Kaiser exec and
>Fretter a typical laid back "hippie" yet side by side Fretter's Eisele did
>well not as good as the Mini or Phelps bottling. Fretter did sell some
>Eisele cab commercially with a Napa Valley designation.
>
>More then you ever wanted to know............
>"Hunt" > wrote in message

Never! Your mention of the Eislie and Phelps, made be take a look in the
cellar. I still have a few of those from the end of that era, plus some older
Backus/Phelps. I see that he's back with Backus fruit, but I have not tried
the newer ones. Thanks for the info.

Hunt

One of the cool things about cellartracker is that registered users can
check winebid 12-month averages for wines, the '66 BV GdlT was $120.75.
Seller ( and buyer) both pay a premium to winebid, and of course
questionable provenance would severely reduce bids.

Thank the late Milton Eisele who gave me the Norman Mini wines. Typo 1st
Mondavi reserve was 74, I suspect 74 Reserve was the last wine Mini worked
and Mondavi never really topped the 2 70 bottlings or the 74 Reserve--the 74
normale was a good value. I think Mini was a large part of the early
Mondavi program. The Padrone and his son's got credit for the winemaking. I
suspect a lot of the hands on stuff was either done or supervised by
Mini...The history of Mondavi family is better than fiction as is their
Italian partner Frescobaldi. Robert was constantly in dire straights,
finding backers, losing backers becoming a public company. I doubt if the
man ever glanced at a ledger sheet. His split with brother Peter, his
romance with wife #2. Interfamily squabbles and like William Randolph
Hearst, he got to see his empire sold off. No wonder he founded Copia. in
his 90s he still needed to stay in the limelight and be pro-active. A salut
Don Roberto!
"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
> >
> >Hunt: My guess is that your right about Mondavi, I think when he opened
up
> >it may have fume blanc, chenin blanc & gamay rose as he first commercial
> >releases. I have a wine guide to California that mentions some of the
wines
> >of the 60s. It was a paperback by Signet, I also have a book by Bob
Thomson
> >from the early 70's coffee table style that dealt with the first wave I
> >remember Yverdon and Cuvaison was in it. If i'm not mistaken 75 was
> >Mondavi's first cab Reserve--although the 1970 came in Unfiltered &
Unfined.
> >71 & 72 were so years and people like Chapallet made good 73s but 1974
was a
> >break out year. I thought 70 was the better vintage. When I visited
> >California, I'd hit all the wineshops & built a nice stock of cabs from
> >66-74 for tastings, other than Diamond Creek, I had about everybody worth
> >having. The best wine in those tastings was the 70 BV, then three wines
from
> >Milton Eisele were terrific; the 1971 Ridge Eisele, the 1974 Conn Creek
> >(made by a bankrupt Lyndhurst) and a wine made for Mr Eisele in 1971 by
> >Norman Mini who was employed by Mondavi. Starting 1975 Phelps had the
> >Eisele until it went to Arrujo. Mini made Eisele wine for their
household
> >until his death in 1975 or 76. A small winery in Berkeley, Travis Fretter
> >then made Mr Eisele's wine as as his own cab. Eisele was a Kaiser exec
and
> >Fretter a typical laid back "hippie" yet side by side Fretter's Eisele
did
> >well not as good as the Mini or Phelps bottling. Fretter did sell some
> >Eisele cab commercially with a Napa Valley designation.
> >
> >More then you ever wanted to know............
> >"Hunt" > wrote in message
>
> Never! Your mention of the Eislie and Phelps, made be take a look in the
> cellar. I still have a few of those from the end of that era, plus some
older
> Backus/Phelps. I see that he's back with Backus fruit, but I have not
tried
> the newer ones. Thanks for the info.
>
> Hunt
>

"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
> Your mention of the Eislie and Phelps, made be take a look in the
> cellar. I still have a few of those from the end of that era, plus some
> older
> Backus/Phelps. I see that he's back with Backus fruit, but I have not
> tried
> the newer ones.

Phelps had been buying fruit from the Backus Vineyard for quite awhile -
since the 1970s anyway. They finally bought the vineyard a few years ago,
and the wine is now their flagship. It's 100% Cabernet, and the 2001 I
tasted at the winery with Ian & Jacquie was magnificent! Unfortunately, it
was also $150. :^(

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

Poor Joe Phelps has to operate on only a 500% mark up-----did one of his
construction jobs go sour?

I had reservations for Mustards(1984? 49er won super bowl) when the lady
giving the tour asked me if I want to have potluck dinner with Joe. I said
sure, thinking one day I'd do a book. Well I got there and Joe wasn't there
but I was kibitzing with some ladies who worked on the crew, dinner was for
the all the workers, cellar rats, tour guides. About half way through the
meal when people got up to grab a new dish, I saw the lady who invited me
ask the two ladies adjacent to me to find another seat. We had a very nice
talk and had a nice time afterwards.

I was flying the next day--after all I was 5-6 with a 56inch waist, food
stains on my shirt, a scraggily beard, long hair. I was not anyone's prize.
The lady was an attractive pr person, so I new Parker but I stayed clear of
his business just passing along messages like" he(Parker) didn't review my
cab, why?I" Other then a rather spare compilation of my ratings on wines
tasted 1978-1982 that sold in the low teens, I was of no use to the Phelps,
the store I worked for had limited allocations of Eisele, Backus & Insignia
and the owner did not buy the rest of line in protest. Almost all the time I
had to forgo wines allocated at 1/2-2 cases. The store would rather
allocated wines go to customer & not down my gullet. But when my
appointment was setup by the wholesaler, it was made clear that I was just
weekend help and not the buyer. They were left to find out for themselves
how loaded and insignifigent I was at that time.

Anyway, thanks to my new friend I got to have dinner with the lady, her kids
& Bruce Neyers in a French nouvelle place near Fisherman's walk.

Nothing ever came of the relationship--I wrote and called a few times but I
was yesterdays news. I never found out what that dinner & later stops were
about. In no way I was a Norman Mailer when I talked. I was 150% about wine
& food, food, and food to other people and an a one trick pony after all.
Tom S" > wrote in message
m...
> "Hunt" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Your mention of the Eislie and Phelps, made be take a look in the
> > cellar. I still have a few of those from the end of that era, plus some
> > older
> > Backus/Phelps. I see that he's back with Backus fruit, but I have not
> > tried
> > the newer ones.
>
> Phelps had been buying fruit from the Backus Vineyard for quite awhile -
> since the 1970s anyway. They finally bought the vineyard a few years ago,
> and the wine is now their flagship. It's 100% Cabernet, and the 2001 I
> tasted at the winery with Ian & Jacquie was magnificent! Unfortunately,
it
> was also $150. :^(
>
> Tom S
> www.chateauburbank.com
>
>

In article > ,
says...
>
>"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
>> Your mention of the Eislie and Phelps, made be take a look in the
>> cellar. I still have a few of those from the end of that era, plus some
>> older
>> Backus/Phelps. I see that he's back with Backus fruit, but I have not
>> tried
>> the newer ones.
>
>Phelps had been buying fruit from the Backus Vineyard for quite awhile -
>since the 1970s anyway. They finally bought the vineyard a few years ago,
>and the wine is now their flagship. It's 100% Cabernet, and the 2001 I
>tasted at the winery with Ian & Jacquie was magnificent! Unfortunately, it
>was also $150. :^(
>
>Tom S
>www.chateauburbank.com

I haven't tasted the newer ones, but still have a few of the Phelps' vintages
from the previous ownership of the vineyard languishing away. I've resisted
getting the newer ones, as I only get -10% off retail. Maybe when I hit the
lottery!!!!

Hunt

In article >, says...
>
>Poor Joe Phelps has to operate on only a 500% mark up-----did one of his
>construction jobs go sour?
>
> I had reservations for Mustards(1984? 49er won super bowl) when the lady
>giving the tour asked me if I want to have potluck dinner with Joe. I said
>sure, thinking one day I'd do a book. Well I got there and Joe wasn't there
>but I was kibitzing with some ladies who worked on the crew, dinner was for
>the all the workers, cellar rats, tour guides. About half way through the
>meal when people got up to grab a new dish, I saw the lady who invited me
>ask the two ladies adjacent to me to find another seat. We had a very nice
>talk and had a nice time afterwards.
>
>I was flying the next day--after all I was 5-6 with a 56inch waist, food
>stains on my shirt, a scraggily beard, long hair. I was not anyone's prize.
>The lady was an attractive pr person, so I new Parker but I stayed clear of
>his business just passing along messages like" he(Parker) didn't review my
>cab, why?I" Other then a rather spare compilation of my ratings on wines
>tasted 1978-1982 that sold in the low teens, I was of no use to the Phelps,
>the store I worked for had limited allocations of Eisele, Backus & Insignia
>and the owner did not buy the rest of line in protest. Almost all the time I
>had to forgo wines allocated at 1/2-2 cases. The store would rather
>allocated wines go to customer & not down my gullet. But when my
>appointment was setup by the wholesaler, it was made clear that I was just
>weekend help and not the buyer. They were left to find out for themselves
>how loaded and insignifigent I was at that time.
>
>Anyway, thanks to my new friend I got to have dinner with the lady, her kids
>& Bruce Neyers in a French nouvelle place near Fisherman's walk.
>
>Nothing ever came of the relationship--I wrote and called a few times but I
>was yesterdays news. I never found out what that dinner & later stops were
>about. In no way I was a Norman Mailer when I talked. I was 150% about wine
>& food, food, and food to other people and an a one trick pony after all.
[SNIP]
So-o-o, you got to write a chapter for that book after all, albeit a different
chapter, than the one you had intended... ;-)

Hunt

Richard W. Solomon, W1KSZ wrote:
> I have a 1966 Beaulieu Vineyard Georges Latour Private Reserve
> Cabernet and a 1982 Sebastiani Cabernet that I want to sell.
> I cannot sell them on e-Bay (restrictions on Wine sales) so
> any ideas how I can sell them ?
> A chap I work with said it's illegal to do this ?? I hate to pour them
> down the drain.
> Any ideas ?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard S.

Other than berating you over the contents of your celler
there are two primary user on-line wine auctions. Wine
Commune and WineBid.com. The major problem is that
these sites are almost entirely populated by people in
Cali which makes shipping almost prohibitive for single
bottles (and even cases) to me on the East Coast. The
other problem is unlike ebay, which despite rampant
fraud due to it's size, these sites aren't policed at
all. As a result, you're really taking a big risk
buying things. Paypal will disavow all knowledge of
the transaction and many of the sellers are doing
things PayPal considers illegal.

Richard W. Solomon, W1KSZ wrote:

> A chap I work with said it's illegal to do this ?? I hate to pour them
> down the drain.
>
It's not illegal, but you have to watch several things:

First the onus is on you to make sure you comply with the requirements
for shipping into the buyers state and shipping from your own state.
Second, you have to ship UPS or FEDEX by their rules. USPS will not
permit wine shipment.

The other place to try to unload these things is to go to the "for
sale" section of some of the other forums (for example Wine Spectator
and eRobertParker both have them) and see if you can raise interest
in there (although you're likely to get more ribbing about your wines
especially if you overprice them).