Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth century
by litigation and international trade treaties.



But a few winemakers have short memories - a stroll through retail liquor
aisles will reveal the increasing usage on Australian labels of the
Frenchified term syrah (Ooh bloody la la) instead of the good ol' Aussie
shiraz. Consumers beware, Australian wines labelled syrah will undoubtedly
carry a premium price. Wine marketing tosseurs (******* in Australian) have
a lot to answer for.


Cheers!
Martin

Martin Field wrote:
> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
> using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth century
> by litigation and international trade treaties.
>
Martin,
Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out with
other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging on.

Mark Lipton

In message .
au>
"Martin Field" > wrote:

> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
> using European, mainly French names for their wines.
Was it then cringing or an honest recognition, if not of roots, at
least of grafting at a time when there was much more to be learnt from
Europe than to teach?
> Most finally stopped
> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth century
> by litigation and international trade treaties.

You mean the lawyers, diplomats and politicians actually achieved
something?


> But a few winemakers have short memories - a stroll through retail liquor
> aisles will reveal the increasing usage on Australian labels of the
> Frenchified term syrah (Ooh bloody la la) instead of the good ol' Aussie
> shiraz.
Just as well - we don't want any confusion between the two for the
poor ignorant fellow who might buy the wrong one of the two and expect
to get wine.


> Consumers beware, Australian wines labelled syrah will undoubtedly
> carry a premium price. Wine marketing tosseurs (******* in Australian) have
> a lot to answer for.

Thanks for the warning - I think I may stick to the Rhone with or
without varietal labels.



Tim Hartley

I find the Australian Ports like Benjamin Tawny to lacks the body of the a
true Port. Look at California they are producing "Port" too. Although in
Cali you find a few Zin Ports, Marietta is one that comes to mind.
Paul

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Martin Field wrote:
>> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>> using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
>> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth
>> century
>> by litigation and international trade treaties.
>>
> Martin,
> Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
> Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out with
> other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging on.
>
> Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Martin Field wrote:
>> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>> using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
>> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth
>> century
>> by litigation and international trade treaties.
>>
> Martin,
> Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
> Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out with
> other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging on.
>
> Mark Lipton

Hi Mark - Australia has not been allowed to sell "ports, sherries,
champagnes, sauternes etc overseas for years. But yes - In Australia some
brands already call tawny ports "tawny". Chambers "tokay" will become
(fortified) muscadelle. Botrytised or "noble" replace sauternes and so
forth. There will be awkward names like "sweet fortified cabernet sauvignon"
etc. Sherries will I guess will become finos and amontillados etc. A
marketing nightmare but long overdue.
Cheers!
Martin

"Timothy Hartley" > wrote in message
...
> In message .
> au>
> "Martin Field" > wrote:
>
>> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>> using European, mainly French names for their wines.
> Was it then cringing or an honest recognition, if not of roots, at
> least of grafting at a time when there was much more to be learnt from
> Europe than to teach?
>> Most finally stopped
>> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth
>> century
>> by litigation and international trade treaties.
>
> You mean the lawyers, diplomats and politicians actually achieved
> something?
>
>
>> But a few winemakers have short memories - a stroll through retail liquor
>> aisles will reveal the increasing usage on Australian labels of the
>> Frenchified term syrah (Ooh bloody la la) instead of the good ol' Aussie
>> shiraz.
> Just as well - we don't want any confusion between the two for the
> poor ignorant fellow who might buy the wrong one of the two and expect
> to get wine.

>
>> Consumers beware, Australian wines labelled syrah will undoubtedly
>> carry a premium price. Wine marketing tosseurs (******* in Australian)
>> have
>> a lot to answer for.
>
> Thanks for the warning - I think I may stick to the Rhone with or
> without varietal labels.

> Tim Hartley

Points well taken Tim. Understandably early Oz winemakers used terms
familiar to them from their homelands to describe their pioneering efforts -
as also happened in other new world areas - eg South Africa, America, South
America. In Australia the problem of passing off Oz wines with European
names was well-recognised in the very early 1900s. Oz winemakers were too
lazy to do anything about it until forced to do so nearly a century later.
Cheers!
Martin

"PP" > wrote in message news:zvSEf.114$DV2.22@trnddc07...
>I find the Australian Ports like Benjamin Tawny to lacks the body of the a
>true Port. Look at California they are producing "Port" too. Although in
>Cali you find a few Zin Ports, Marietta is one that comes to mind.
> Paul
>
I find that the Oz port styles - vintage and tawny - most palatable but they
are not port. If you want to experience one of the great styles in the world
lash out a few dollars on a Portuguese vintage port from one of the
well-known houses. Sublime and unforgettable. On the other hand if you want
a great shiraz (sorry syrah!) try an upmarket one from Australia.

Cheers!
Martin

Martin Field wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Martin Field wrote:
>>
>>>Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>>>using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
>>>this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth
>>>century
>>>by litigation and international trade treaties.
>>>
>>
>>Martin,
>> Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
>>Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out with
>>other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging on.
>>
>>Mark Lipton
>
>
> Hi Mark - Australia has not been allowed to sell "ports, sherries,
> champagnes, sauternes etc overseas for years.

Martin,
No doubt that is true in the EU, but here in the US wineries from Oz
still *do* market "Ports." Just last week I tasted a NV Penfolds CLUB
Tawny Port (not likely to displace some of the wonderful Rutherglen
Muscats and "Tokay"s from my affections, though).

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
news:iw4Ff.754301$_o.402421@attbi_s71...
> Martin Field wrote:
> > "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Martin Field wrote:
> >>
> >>>Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing -
that is,
> >>>using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally
stopped
> >>>this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth
> >>>century
> >>>by litigation and international trade treaties.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Martin,
> >> Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
> >>Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out
with
> >>other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging
on.
> >>
> >>Mark Lipton
> >
> >
> > Hi Mark - Australia has not been allowed to sell "ports, sherries,
> > champagnes, sauternes etc overseas for years.
>
> Martin,
> No doubt that is true in the EU, but here in the US wineries from
Oz
> still *do* market "Ports." Just last week I tasted a NV Penfolds CLUB
> Tawny Port (not likely to displace some of the wonderful Rutherglen
> Muscats and "Tokay"s from my affections, though).
>
> Mark Lipton

Isn't it the case that the term "Oporto" is now the reserved term
for the wine formerly known as Port, and that the "port" designator
is pretty much free game now?

pavane

"pavane" > wrote:

> Isn't it the case that the term "Oporto" is now the reserved
> term for the wine formerly known as Port,

No. "Oporto" is the city's name ("The Port"). "Porto" ist the
wine term. "Porto" is 100% protected.

> and that the "port" designator is pretty much free game now?

No. It's still in litigation. But until it has been ruled out,
some/many (don't know exactly) Portuguese Port houses decided to
label their products as "Porto".

M.

In article >, says
....
>
>Martin Field wrote:
>> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>> using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
>> this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth century
>> by litigation and international trade treaties.
>>
>Martin,
> Is there any move afoot to change the name of "Port" coming from
>Australia? As you say, the practice has been gradually phased out with
>other wines ("Sauternes" for starters) this one seems to be hanging on.
>
>Mark Lipton

Mark,

When I posed just the same question to an Aussie winemaker, his answer was two
part:

1.) port-styled wines for export to EU, or that are part of an EU corporation,
have dropped the word "Port," from their labels, using instead, terms like "
Library Selection," etc.

2.) port-styled wines intended for OZ/US market, without constraints of EU
owners, board members, would continue to use the term, until the courts
decided otherwise.

It sounded OK to me, as I began seeing OZ port-styled wines with different
names, but the same bottle, wine, and mostly same label.

Any Aussie distributors know for sure?

Hunt

Salut/Hi Martin Field,

I refrained from biting when I got "e-Vine" but...

le/on Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:06:25 +1100, tu disais/you said:-

>
>"Timothy Hartley" > wrote in message
...
>> In message .
>> au>
>> "Martin Field" > wrote:
>>
>>> Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>>> using European, mainly French names for their wines.

>> Was it then cringing or an honest recognition, if not of roots, at
>> least of grafting at a time when there was much more to be learnt from
>> Europe than to teach?


>Points well taken Tim. Understandably early Oz winemakers used terms
>familiar to them from their homelands to describe their pioneering efforts -
>as also happened in other new world areas - eg South Africa, America, South
>America. In Australia the problem of passing off Oz wines with European
>names was well-recognised in the very early 1900s. Oz winemakers were too
>lazy to do anything about it until forced to do so nearly a century later.

I don't think either of you have put your finger on it. One of the most
shameful aspects of UK/OZ trade was in respect of wines until the UK joined
the Common Market.

Oz wine sellers were treated with an utterly cringe-worthy arrogance by wine
buyers in the Uk. Caricaturing... "No I don't want to try you so-called
Hermitage, your price for your burgundy has got to come down" (after keeping
the guy waiting half the morning).

The Uk was the major market for Oz wines and what UK importers wanted was
wines that they could sell as "Burgundy" "Port" and "Brown Sherry" to take
three notorious examples. Wine making in Australia was completely deformed
by this abuse. When the UK was obliged on entry into the Common Market (as
it was known at the time) to tidy up its act, it simply dropped their import
of Oz wines dead. Not a happy state of affairs.

So in my opinion the major reason some wines have these names is because of
this UK imposed specialisation. I also suspect that one reason Oz winemakers
don't want to change is out of a kind of rebellious refusal to give in to
pressure from the bloody poms again. I don't really blame any resentment
they may feel.

As for whether they _ought_ to keep them, of course they shouldn't. They're
cutting themselves out of an important market and, I would suggest, boxing
themselves into a corner.

As for Syrah and Shiraz. I think Martin is being both tongue in cheek and
cynical. If the grape variety was _generally_ known throughout the english
speaking world as "Plum" then by all means call it that. However, the name
Syrah is as much the name of that grape in the English speaking world, as
Pinot Noir is for THAT grape. It's not kowtowing to anybody to conform to
accepted usage.

As to WHY marketroids are starting to call their excellent wines Syrah... I
suspect that he's right, sadly. I very much doubt that it's out of some wish
to conform, but because they hope to be able to sell it more expensively.
That, of course would explode in their faces, if shiraz were dropped
overnight throughout Oz in favour of Syrah.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:37:11 +1100, "Martin Field"
> wrote:

>Australian winemakers have a long history of cultural cringing - that is,
>using European, mainly French names for their wines. Most finally stopped
>this pathetic practice after being dragged into the late twentieth century
>by litigation and international trade treaties.
>
>
>
>But a few winemakers have short memories - a stroll through retail liquor
>aisles will reveal the increasing usage on Australian labels of the
>Frenchified term syrah (Ooh bloody la la) instead of the good ol' Aussie
>shiraz. Consumers beware, Australian wines labelled syrah will undoubtedly
>carry a premium price. Wine marketing tosseurs (******* in Australian) have
>a lot to answer for.
>
>
>Cheers!
>Martin
>
>
Well, an Aussie icon has finally succumbed to the "right" way of
labelling. Houghton's White Burgundy will be for ever now known as
Classic Dry White.

The Port/Muscat/Tokay issue is another story. Marketers are scraching
their heads wondering what the heavens they are gonna call those
luscious Rutherglen fortified's.


hooroo...

The legalities of it all are, that Tawny, Port, etc. will be phased out
by i believe 2008? I could be wrong about the date, but it is for the
same reason that We are unable to label sparkles as Champagne. Its a
geographical indication of the product.
You wouldn't call a wine a Barossa Shiraz(Syrah ) if it was from
somewhere else.
Same with the name Burgandy. It is illegal to say on the label," in
the style of "(eg: Bourdeux),
Its got to do with the label intergrity program. There's a whole
massive document outlining what is required on a label, and what is
illegal to state.

P.S. I like Syrah, tosseur as it is