Hi:

Here is my wine fantasy.

Ripe French white wine grapes are used. Throughout the wine-making and
wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
methods.

Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are somehow
protected from their own ethanol so that it doesn't injure or kill
them. Vinegar yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold,
mildew, and other foreign microbes are somehow prohibited from entering
the wine or any of the wine's equipment. After alcoholic fermentation
is completed, the yeast somehow flee the wine equipment. Because the
yeast are somehow totally protected from the ethanol, they survive and
are able to completely convert all the sugar in the grape juice to
ethanol.

Now the aging process begins and is performed by anaerobic bacteria.
During this process no microbes other than anaerobic bacteria are
allowed into any part of the wine's equipment. The bacteria initially
feed on all organic substances present in the wine [excluding ethanol]
and produce foul-smelling substances. Following this, the bacteria then
feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the wine while
leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected -- this decrease
the ethanol content of the wine by 50%. More foul-smelling substances
are excreted from these bacteria.

Finally, any sulfides [inluding hydrogen sulfide], oxides [including
CO2] that maybe produced are somehow removed. Last but not least, any
substances that do not cause, affect, or add any smell or flavor to the
wine [excluding water] are somehow removed completely.

End result: my favorite white wine!!!

Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???


Regards,

Radium

Dear Radium:

"Radium" > wrote in message
ups.com...
....
> any part of the wine-making process is prevented
> using full-proofs

"fool proof"... meaning even a fool cannot screw it up.

> Yeasts are somehow protected from their own ethanol
> so that it doesn't injure or kill them.

Yeasts are killed by their own ethanol. It is a waste product.
People are similarly killed by their own CO2 emissions. It just
takes a high enough concentration to do the job.

David A. Smith

This is the second time this idiot has tried cross-posting this rubbish.

AFWers - please do not respond!!!!!

> This is the second time this idiot has tried cross-posting this rubbish.

Since posts arrive out of sync, a troll alert does little good without
an indication of what the subject line and poster is.

I did see it; my favorite part is "'somehow' thus and such happens..."

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> Dear Radium:
>
> "Radium" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> ...
> > any part of the wine-making process is prevented
> > using full-proofs
>
> "fool proof"... meaning even a fool cannot screw it up.
>
> > Yeasts are somehow protected from their own ethanol
> > so that it doesn't injure or kill them.
>
> Yeasts are killed by their own ethanol. It is a waste product.
> People are similarly killed by their own CO2 emissions. It just
> takes a high enough concentration to do the job.
>
> David A. Smith

The technique is well-known, and is called "maceration cabonique". In
one of it's most recent incarnation (in the 1980's), an Australian
winemaker sealed the uncrushed grapes in large (~1 cubic metre) plastic
bags with no air head space. Other wine makers use nitrogen to purge
air from fermentation tanks.

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> Dear Radium:
>
> "Radium" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> ...
> > any part of the wine-making process is prevented
> > using full-proofs
>

> "fool proof"... meaning even a fool cannot screw it up.

LOL

>
> > Yeasts are somehow protected from their own ethanol
> > so that it doesn't injure or kill them.
>


> Yeasts are killed by their own ethanol.

Not in my magical wine-making process. The yeasts are coated with
something that prevents ethanol from entering their cells.

> It is a waste product.
> People are similarly killed by their own CO2 emissions. It just
> takes a high enough concentration to do the job.



>
> David A. Smith

st.helier wrote on Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:02:00 +1200:

sh> This is the second time this idiot has tried cross-posting
sh> this rubbish.

sh> AFWers - please do not respond!!!!!

You might have indicated that you were referring to the
fantasizing, crossposting ignoramus :-) There I go, almost
breaking the rule to never feed the trolls.

James Silverton.

"Radium" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Throughout the wine-making and
> wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> methods.

It's a little hard to take you seriously when the very first premise of your
post is completely wrong. Controlled oxidation is a huge part of the aging
process of wine. Oak barrels are very O2-permeable, as is cork to an
extent, and they allow oxidation of a lot of the harsh components to
mellower flavors. Some wines are more oxidzed than others. A friend of
mine makes very nice sherry by leaving each barrel open in his attic for
some period of time in the summer. The 100+ F temperatures give some very
nice oxidation indeed. In sweet wines like that, I suspect oxidation of
sugar aldehydes/hemiacetals generally prevents oxidation of alcohol to ethyl
acetate.

Eric Lucas

wrote:
> "Radium" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> > Throughout the wine-making and
> > wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> > oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> > prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> > any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> > methods.

> It's a little hard to take you seriously when the very first premise of your
> post is completely wrong. Controlled oxidation is a huge part of the aging
> process of wine. Oak barrels are very O2-permeable, as is cork to an
> extent, and they allow oxidation of a lot of the harsh components to
> mellower flavors. Some wines are more oxidzed than others. A friend of
> mine makes very nice sherry by leaving each barrel open in his attic for
> some period of time in the summer. The 100+ F temperatures give some very
> nice oxidation indeed. In sweet wines like that, I suspect oxidation of
> sugar aldehydes/hemiacetals generally prevents oxidation of alcohol to ethyl
> acetate.

Well, in my fanstastic wine, the aging process is different in that
there is no oxidation at at all -- there is bacterial decomposition
with absolutely no oxygen instead. In addition, my fantastic wine is
totally dry and not sweet at all. All sugar is converted to ethanol.

>
> Eric Lucas

> Well, in my fanstastic wine...

You always end with "would you like to taste..." and I keep thinking
there's a punchline, but I don't get it.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Radium" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "Radium" > wrote in message
>
> Well, in my fanstastic wine, the aging process is different in that
> there is no oxidation at at all -- there is bacterial decomposition
> with absolutely no oxygen instead. In addition, my fantastic wine is
> totally dry and not sweet at all. All sugar is converted to ethanol.
>
This ought to be some wine, and in fact would not be considered wine at all.
As you are aware the ethanol starts within the bacteria, and must migrate
outward. Sealing the bacteria against ethanol is going to kill them faster.
I thought it was yeast, not bacteria, which did the work anyway. At any
rate, you can take some grain alcohol, mix it with some flavor and get
about where you are trying to go. You may not, however, call it a wine
unless it was done using something very closely resembling the winemaking
art.

Now, when you have bacterial decomposition without oxygen, you must account
for the other components which are also decomposed, including various sulfur
compounds. Those need to be oxidized.

Why would you be making wine if you think fruit smells bad?

Michael

Herman Family wrote:
> "Radium" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > wrote:
> >> "Radium" > wrote in message
> >
> > Well, in my fanstastic wine, the aging process is different in that
> > there is no oxidation at at all -- there is bacterial decomposition
> > with absolutely no oxygen instead. In addition, my fantastic wine is
> > totally dry and not sweet at all. All sugar is converted to ethanol.
> >
> This ought to be some wine, and in fact would not be considered wine at all.
> As you are aware the ethanol starts within the bacteria, and must migrate
> outward. Sealing the bacteria against ethanol is going to kill them faster.
> I thought it was yeast, not bacteria, which did the work anyway. At any
> rate, you can take some grain alcohol, mix it with some flavor and get
> about where you are trying to go. You may not, however, call it a wine
> unless it was done using something very closely resembling the winemaking
> art.
>
> Now, when you have bacterial decomposition without oxygen, you must account
> for the other components which are also decomposed, including various sulfur
> compounds. Those need to be oxidized.
>

> Why would you be making wine if you think fruit smells bad?

Sometimes foul odors can be interesting

>
> Michael

Herman Family wrote:
> "Radium" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > wrote:
> >> "Radium" > wrote in message
> >
> > Well, in my fanstastic wine, the aging process is different in that
> > there is no oxidation at at all -- there is bacterial decomposition
> > with absolutely no oxygen instead. In addition, my fantastic wine is
> > totally dry and not sweet at all. All sugar is converted to ethanol.
> >

> This ought to be some wine, and in fact would not be considered wine at all.

> As you are aware the ethanol starts within the bacteria, and must migrate
> outward. Sealing the bacteria against ethanol is going to kill them faster.
> I thought it was yeast, not bacteria, which did the work anyway.

Yeasts -- not bacteria -- convert sugar to ethanols. Bacteria are what
produce foul odors.

> At any
> rate, you can take some grain alcohol, mix it with some flavor and get
> about where you are trying to go. You may not, however, call it a wine
> unless it was done using something very closely resembling the winemaking
> art.
>
> Now, when you have bacterial decomposition without oxygen, you must account
> for the other components which are also decomposed, including various sulfur
> compounds. Those need to be oxidized.

There are amines, indoles, skatoles, etc. that are produced from the
decomposition of certain compounds in the grape juice.


>
> Why would you be making wine if you think fruit smells bad?
>
> Michael

"Radium" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> > Dear Radium:
> >
> > "Radium" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > ...
> > > any part of the wine-making process is prevented
> > > using full-proofs
> >
>
> > "fool proof"... meaning even a fool cannot screw it up.
>
> LOL
>
> >
> > > Yeasts are somehow protected from their own ethanol
> > > so that it doesn't injure or kill them.
> >
>
>
> > Yeasts are killed by their own ethanol.
>
> Not in my magical wine-making process. The yeasts are coated with
> something that prevents ethanol from entering their cells.

David, the alcohol is produced inside the yeast cells. Then the alcohol is
transported across the cell membrane out into the must.
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA
www.geocities.com/lumeisenman

> > It is a waste product.
> > People are similarly killed by their own CO2 emissions. It just
> > takes a high enough concentration to do the job.
>
>
>
> >
> > David A. Smith
>

>
> Here is my wine fantasy.
>
> Ripe French white wine grapes are used. Throughout the wine-making and

Why French grapes? Are there any such thing any more. Most of the french
vines were wiped out by disease and replaced with vines from the US, which
were disease resistant.


> wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> methods.
>
> Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are somehow
> protected from their own ethanol so that it doesn't injure or kill
> them. Vinegar yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold,
> mildew, and other foreign microbes are somehow prohibited from entering
> the wine or any of the wine's equipment. After alcoholic fermentation
> is completed, the yeast somehow flee the wine equipment. Because the
> yeast are somehow totally protected from the ethanol, they survive and
> are able to completely convert all the sugar in the grape juice to
> ethanol.
>
> Now the aging process begins and is performed by anaerobic bacteria.
> During this process no microbes other than anaerobic bacteria are
> allowed into any part of the wine's equipment. The bacteria initially
> feed on all organic substances present in the wine [excluding ethanol]
> and produce foul-smelling substances. Following this, the bacteria then
> feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the wine while
> leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected -- this decrease
> the ethanol content of the wine by 50%. More foul-smelling substances
> are excreted from these bacteria.
>
> Finally, any sulfides [inluding hydrogen sulfide], oxides [including
> CO2] that maybe produced are somehow removed. Last but not least, any
> substances that do not cause, affect, or add any smell or flavor to the
> wine [excluding water] are somehow removed completely.
>
> End result: my favorite white wine!!!
>
> Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Radium
>

two bob wrote:
> >
> > Here is my wine fantasy.
> >
> > Ripe French white wine grapes are used. Throughout the wine-making and
>

> Why French grapes?

Personal reasons.

> Are there any such thing any more. Most of the french
> vines were wiped out by disease and replaced with vines from the US, which
> were disease resistant.

Damn. I want those Old-World French white wine grapes. Go back in time
and bring some!

>
>
> > wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> > oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> > prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> > any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> > methods.
> >
> > Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are somehow
> > protected from their own ethanol so that it doesn't injure or kill
> > them. Vinegar yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold,
> > mildew, and other foreign microbes are somehow prohibited from entering
> > the wine or any of the wine's equipment. After alcoholic fermentation
> > is completed, the yeast somehow flee the wine equipment. Because the
> > yeast are somehow totally protected from the ethanol, they survive and
> > are able to completely convert all the sugar in the grape juice to
> > ethanol.
> >
> > Now the aging process begins and is performed by anaerobic bacteria.
> > During this process no microbes other than anaerobic bacteria are
> > allowed into any part of the wine's equipment. The bacteria initially
> > feed on all organic substances present in the wine [excluding ethanol]
> > and produce foul-smelling substances. Following this, the bacteria then
> > feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the wine while
> > leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected -- this decrease
> > the ethanol content of the wine by 50%. More foul-smelling substances
> > are excreted from these bacteria.
> >
> > Finally, any sulfides [inluding hydrogen sulfide], oxides [including
> > CO2] that maybe produced are somehow removed. Last but not least, any
> > substances that do not cause, affect, or add any smell or flavor to the
> > wine [excluding water] are somehow removed completely.
> >
> > End result: my favorite white wine!!!
> >
> > Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Radium
> >

two bob wrote:
> >
> > Here is my wine fantasy.
> >
> > Ripe French white wine grapes are used. Throughout the wine-making and
>
> Why French grapes? Are there any such thing any more. Most of the french
> vines were wiped out by disease and replaced with vines from the US, which
> were disease resistant.
>
>
> > wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> > oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> > prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> > any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> > methods.
> >
> > Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are somehow
> > protected from their own ethanol so that it doesn't injure or kill
> > them. Vinegar yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold,
> > mildew, and other foreign microbes are somehow prohibited from entering
> > the wine or any of the wine's equipment. After alcoholic fermentation
> > is completed, the yeast somehow flee the wine equipment. Because the
> > yeast are somehow totally protected from the ethanol, they survive and
> > are able to completely convert all the sugar in the grape juice to
> > ethanol.
> >
> > Now the aging process begins and is performed by anaerobic bacteria.
> > During this process no microbes other than anaerobic bacteria are
> > allowed into any part of the wine's equipment. The bacteria initially
> > feed on all organic substances present in the wine [excluding ethanol]
> > and produce foul-smelling substances. Following this, the bacteria then
> > feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the wine while
> > leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected -- this decrease
> > the ethanol content of the wine by 50%. More foul-smelling substances
> > are excreted from these bacteria.
> >
> > Finally, any sulfides [inluding hydrogen sulfide], oxides [including
> > CO2] that maybe produced are somehow removed. Last but not least, any
> > substances that do not cause, affect, or add any smell or flavor to the
> > wine [excluding water] are somehow removed completely.
> >
> > End result: my favorite white wine!!!
> >
> > Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Radium
> >

The American vines are used as root stock with the varital vines
grafted on to them. The root stock is resitant to Grape phylloxera
(Daktulosphaira vitifolii ), a aphid that attacks the roots.

Now that we're firmly esconced in fantasy land... is this dreaming best
done in a mind-altered state? LOLOL

Gene

Radium wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Here is my wine fantasy.
>
> Ripe French white wine grapes are used. Throughout the wine-making and
> wine-storing process, the entire equipments' insides are keep free of
> oxygen -- this prevent conversion of alcohol to acetic acid and also
> prevent any oxidation from occuring. In addition, any excess acidity in
> any part of the wine-making process is prevented using full-proofs
> methods.
>
> Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are somehow
> protected from their own ethanol so that it doesn't injure or kill
> them. Vinegar yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold,
> mildew, and other foreign microbes are somehow prohibited from entering
> the wine or any of the wine's equipment. After alcoholic fermentation
> is completed, the yeast somehow flee the wine equipment. Because the
> yeast are somehow totally protected from the ethanol, they survive and
> are able to completely convert all the sugar in the grape juice to
> ethanol.
>
> Now the aging process begins and is performed by anaerobic bacteria.
> During this process no microbes other than anaerobic bacteria are
> allowed into any part of the wine's equipment. The bacteria initially
> feed on all organic substances present in the wine [excluding ethanol]
> and produce foul-smelling substances. Following this, the bacteria then
> feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the wine while
> leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected -- this decrease
> the ethanol content of the wine by 50%. More foul-smelling substances
> are excreted from these bacteria.
>
> Finally, any sulfides [inluding hydrogen sulfide], oxides [including
> CO2] that maybe produced are somehow removed. Last but not least, any
> substances that do not cause, affect, or add any smell or flavor to the
> wine [excluding water] are somehow removed completely.
>
> End result: my favorite white wine!!!
>
> Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Radium
>

two bob wrote:
> >
> Why French grapes? Are there any such thing any more. Most of the french
> vines were wiped out by disease and replaced with vines from the US, which
> were disease resistant.

And yet, the EU still complains about genetically-modified organisms.
Thanks to GMOs, it appears that the US has saved the French wine
industry.

Ha ha ha. Now that's funny.

--Alex

***************************
Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
Dept. of Microbiology
University of Washington School of Medicine
Seattle, WA 98195

wrote:
> two bob wrote:
> > >
> > Why French grapes? Are there any such thing any more. Most of the french
> > vines were wiped out by disease and replaced with vines from the US, which
> > were disease resistant.
>
> And yet, the EU still complains about genetically-modified organisms.
> Thanks to GMOs, it appears that the US has saved the French wine
> industry.
>
> Ha ha ha. Now that's funny.
>
> --Alex
>
> ***************************
> Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
> Dept. of Microbiology
> University of Washington School of Medicine
> Seattle, WA 98195

Phyloxera was introduced into Europe, South Africa and Australia on
American vines in the mid 1800's. The European vines were very
suseptible to this North American pest, the American vines were more
resistant.

The modern root stock is not a GMO is the strict sense of the term but
a cultivated hybrid/selected cultivar in the same sense as Red
Delicious , Golden Delisious, Cox's Orange Pippen apples are.

Rather than the US saving the wine industry it devistated it and the
viticulturalists had to resort to resistant root stock from the area
that started the problem.