Hello,
This summer we had the pleasure of visiting Barolo, first time ever, not the
last though. We visited out-and-out self-proclaimed MAscarello Bartolo (the
daughter, who reigns very much in her father's style), and one of the
numerous Borgogno family (Lodovico) who appeared to be an eclectic
in-betweener. However, no modernist. If there are any, today. Are there?
BAck a decade or so the differences between traditionalists and modernists
split families and made people build barricades in the streets - well
perhaps not barricades, but there were apparently some serious falling-outs.
TOday, it appears that the two camps are nearing each other (Ms MAscarello
doesn't use temperature controll, but she does use remontage, e g). So, who
is a modernist?
Your EU 0.02, please.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>So, who
> is a modernist?


My list:

Pio Cesare, Scavino, Clerico, Azelia , Seghesio, Luigi Pira, Altare
Silvio Grasso, Sandrone, Voerzio

Oh yeah, and Prunotto and Renato Ratti.

Ceretto would probably qualify too.

I do agree that most of the modernist have tuned it down a bit.

DaleW wrote:
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
> >So, who
> > is a modernist?
>
>
> My list:
>
> Pio Cesare, Scavino, Clerico, Azelia , Seghesio, Luigi Pira, Altare
> Silvio Grasso, Sandrone, Voerzio

"DaleW" > skrev i meddelandet
ups.com...
>
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>>So, who
>> is a modernist?
>
>
> My list:
>
> Pio Cesare, Scavino, Clerico, Azelia , Seghesio, Luigi Pira, Altare
> Silvio Grasso, Sandrone, Voerzio

Which Voerzio? And is Sandrone really considered modernist? As for Altare, I
had him in mind ...

Thanks

Nils Gustaf

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
> "DaleW" > skrev i meddelandet
>> Which Voerzio? And is Sandrone really considered modernist? As for Altare, I
> had him in mind ...
>
> Thanks
>
Roberto V.
Sandrone probably isn't as out there as Altare or Parusso, but yes I
would call modern. I'm not an idealogue on this- while my overall
preference is old school like G. Conterno/B. Giacosa/Marcarni/either
Mascarello/etc. (I'd say both Giacosa and G. Mascarello would also fall
into the category of easier drinking young than the true true old
style), I own some middle of the roaders like Einaudi, Ca'Roma, etc and
some new-wavers like Azelia and Pira.

"DaleW" > skrev i melding
ups.com...
>
> Sandrone probably isn't as out there as Altare or Parusso, but yes I
> would call modern. I'm not an idealogue on this- while my overall
> preference is old school like G. Conterno/B. Giacosa/Marcarni/either
> Mascarello/etc. (I'd say both Giacosa and G. Mascarello would also fall
> into the category of easier drinking young than the true true old
> style), I own some middle of the roaders like Einaudi, Ca'Roma, etc and
> some new-wavers like Azelia and Pira.
>
Happened to drink a Sandrone Dolcetto d'Alba this weekend! It stood up well
against the other wines of the event (no notes) including Penfolds Bin 28,
Montecillo Gran Reserva and Féraud-Brunel Ch.neuf-du-Pape.
A

> Happened to drink a Sandrone Dolcetto d'Alba this weekend! It stood up
> well
> against the other wines of the event (no notes) including Penfolds Bin 28,
> Montecillo Gran Reserva and Féraud-Brunel Ch.neuf-du-Pape.

Dolcetto in the hands of good producers is seriously coming into its own -
had one from Giacomo Voerzio, well worth the EU 10, but came to be a bit
overshadowed by the following 12 (!) Barolos - no notes taken, as I was
cooking ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "DaleW" > skrev i melding
> ups.com...
> >
> > Sandrone probably isn't as out there as Altare or Parusso, but yes I
> > would call modern. I'm not an idealogue on this- while my overall
> > preference is old school like G. Conterno/B. Giacosa/Marcarni/either
> > Mascarello/etc. (I'd say both Giacosa and G. Mascarello would also fall
> > into the category of easier drinking young than the true true old
> > style), I own some middle of the roaders like Einaudi, Ca'Roma, etc and
> > some new-wavers like Azelia and Pira.
> >
> Happened to drink a Sandrone Dolcetto d'Alba this weekend! It stood up well
> against the other wines of the event (no notes) including Penfolds Bin 28,
> Montecillo Gran Reserva and Féraud-Brunel Ch.neuf-du-Pape.
> A

I began drinking Dolcetto back in the late 70's. I have not noticed any
significant changes, though I think a general overall improvement has
been taking place in Italian wine production for about 15 years. I
think also that better bottlings of Dolcetto are making their way to
the North American market than before.

Sandrone is a good wine-maker, in the upper tiers of Piemonte producers.

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > Oh yeah, and Prunotto and Renato Ratti.
> >
> > Ceretto would probably qualify too.
> >
> > I do agree that most of the modernist have tuned it down a bit.
>
> Yes, "it" being the tendency to flavour the wines with barriques.
>
> Having said that, a lot of the oldschool wines used to be undrinkable
> young and required loooooooooooong aging.
>
> I think that gradually a compromise is emerging, even Mascarello's wines
> are not what they used to be, they are easier to drink young.
>
> Beppe Rinaldi is another old school barolist who manages to make a wine
> that can be opened in your lifetime. Quite good.
>
> Of the same (partially) reformed old school also look for Teobaldo
> Cappellano.
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > DaleW wrote:
> >
> >>Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
> >>
> >>>So, who
> >>>is a modernist?
> >>
> >>
> >>My list:
> >>
> >>Pio Cesare, Scavino, Clerico, Azelia , Seghesio, Luigi Pira, Altare
> >> Silvio Grasso, Sandrone, Voerzio
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Barolo, the traditional Barolo, has been improved by better, cleaner
production methods. I am not a fan of long barrique or oak ageing for
Barolo, but perhaps a little does not hurt. Botte are traditional for
Barolo and Barbaresco wines, and it is probably not a good idea to
stray TOO far from the traditional methods.

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
...
>
> Dolcetto in the hands of good producers is seriously coming into its own -
> had one from Giacomo Voerzio, well worth the EU 10, but came to be a bit
> overshadowed by the following 12 (!) Barolos - no notes taken, as I was
> cooking ...
>
The Sandrone was in the vicinity of 22EUR here in Norway which would be
about 17EUR in Sweden, I think. The expensivest we had were Pontet Canet and
Petit-Figeac but this Dolcetto was no mean contender.
A

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > schreef in bericht
...
> Hello,
> This summer we had the pleasure of visiting Barolo, first time ever, not
> the last though. We visited out-and-out self-proclaimed MAscarello Bartolo
> (the daughter, who reigns very much in her father's style), and one of the
> numerous Borgogno family (Lodovico) who appeared to be an eclectic
> in-betweener. However, no modernist. If there are any, today. Are there?
> BAck a decade or so the differences between traditionalists and modernists
> split families and made people build barricades in the streets - well
> perhaps not barricades, but there were apparently some serious
> falling-outs. TOday, it appears that the two camps are nearing each other
> (Ms MAscarello doesn't use temperature controll, but she does use
> remontage, e g). So, who is a modernist?
> Your EU 0.02, please.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nils Gustaf


From a friend of mine


Traditionalist Barolo and Barbaresco:


Accomasso
Alessandria, Fratelli
Ascheri
Barale, Sergio
Boasso, Franco - Gabutti
Borgogno, Giacomo
Borgogno, Sergio e Battista
Bovio, Gianfranco
Brezza
Brovia
Cantina del Glincine
Castello di Verduno
Cavallotto
Conterno, Giacomo
Cortese, Giuseppe
De Forville
Fenocchio, Giacomo
Fenocchio, Riccardo - Pianpolvere Soprano
Fiorina, Franco
Giacosa, Bruno
Giacosa, Fratelli
La Spinona
Marcarini
Mascarello, Bartolo
Mascarello, Giuseppe/Mauro
Nada, Fiorenzo
Oddero
Piazzo, Armando
Podere Colla - of Prunotto fame
Produttori del Barbaresco
Rinaldi, Giuseppe
Rinaldi, Francesco
Roagna, Alfredo and Giovanni - I Paglieri
Rosso, Gigi
Scarpa
Scarzello, Giorgio
Settimo, Aurelio
Sobrero
Terre del Barolo
Vajra, Aldo
Voerzio, Giacomo


Dualisten: ( traditional and Modern style )


Castello de Neive
Chiarlo, Michele
Einaudi, Luigi
Fontanafredda
Marchesi di Barolo
Massolino - Vigna Rionda
Paitin
Punset
Rocca, Albino

Syncretists

Producers who wants to preserve the tradionel taste and making the wine
nevertheless "easier" for example by use of tonneaux or the wine partly
assemble on barrique and the another part on large barrels (botti) and
assemble these later.


Batasiolo
Ca'Rome
Cigliuti
Conterno, Aldo
Grasso, Elio
Manzone, Giovani
Marchesi di Gresy
Parusso
Pertinance, Elvio - Vignaioli
Sandrone, Luciano
Voerzio, Gianni,
Voerzio, Roberto
Vietti


New modernist
Former traditionals. now fully modernist

Ceretto
Cogno, Elvio (Of Marcarini fame. Son-in-law has changed the style while
keeping the name).
Conterno, Paulo
Contratto, Giuseppe
Marengo, Mario
Monfalletto - Cordero di Montezemolo
Pelissero
Pio Cesare
Pira, Enrico - Chiara Boschis
Prunotto
Ratti, Renato
Scavino, Paolo/Enrico
Tenuta Carretta

Modernisten

Full modern style


Angelo Gaja
Sottimano
La Spinetta
Sandrone
Domenico Clerico
Conterno Fantino

Hello,
Yes, but I bought mine in the Cantina Communale in La Morra. FUnny, the
difference in price must be ... transportation, innit? Go figure, EU 12 to
transport a bottle wieghing c. 1kg from Piemonte to Norway ...
in-defile-grandmother-credible as a CHinese micght put it ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

> Barolo, the traditional Barolo, has been improved by better, cleaner
> production methods. I am not a fan of long barrique or oak ageing for
> Barolo, but perhaps a little does not hurt. Botte are traditional for
> Barolo and Barbaresco wines, and it is probably not a good idea to
> stray TOO far from the traditional methods.

Hello Uranium,
The TRADITIONAL method was fermentation in open filthy vats with VA and
bacterial overgrowth, then cutting with some Puglian primitivo must to get
better color ... the funny thing is, sometimes it worked, I have had pre-WW2
Barolos that were quite good - failing, but still good.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
> > Barolo, the traditional Barolo, has been improved by better, cleaner
> > production methods. I am not a fan of long barrique or oak ageing for
> > Barolo, but perhaps a little does not hurt. Botte are traditional for
> > Barolo and Barbaresco wines, and it is probably not a good idea to
> > stray TOO far from the traditional methods.
>
> Hello Uranium,
> The TRADITIONAL method was fermentation in open filthy vats with VA and
> bacterial overgrowth, then cutting with some Puglian primitivo must to get
> better color ... the funny thing is, sometimes it worked, I have had pre-WW2
> Barolos that were quite good - failing, but still good.

I suppose it depends on whose tradition you mean.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nils Gustaf

Re Pira, I was there the day Chiara received new barrels at the urging of
local friends. Dale & I had an old style Pira at my 60th birthday dinner,
We had the 1978 Barolo, I think it was Chiara's first vintage as a winemaker
(with help from her brother Cesare of Borgogno). Chiara paled around with
DeGrazia's barolo boys and she did have some old style barrels which should
have been retired with the 1914 vintage. When Signor Pira drowned himself
in a vat of his own wine, (he did a half-gainer that scored 9.3 by the
French judge),at the widow's request the Boschis family took over the
winemaking. IIRC Chiara at first had the 1978 vintage to perfect and
bottle. (No dirty sweat-socks remarks, please).


"Wildetuinn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > Hello,
> > This summer we had the pleasure of visiting Barolo, first time ever, not
> > the last though. We visited out-and-out self-proclaimed MAscarello
Bartolo
> > (the daughter, who reigns very much in her father's style), and one of
the
> > numerous Borgogno family (Lodovico) who appeared to be an eclectic
> > in-betweener. However, no modernist. If there are any, today. Are there?
> > BAck a decade or so the differences between traditionalists and
modernists
> > split families and made people build barricades in the streets - well
> > perhaps not barricades, but there were apparently some serious
> > falling-outs. TOday, it appears that the two camps are nearing each
other
> > (Ms MAscarello doesn't use temperature controll, but she does use
> > remontage, e g). So, who is a modernist?
> > Your EU 0.02, please.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Nils Gustaf
>
>
> From a friend of mine
>
>
> Traditionalist Barolo and Barbaresco:
>
>
> Accomasso
> Alessandria, Fratelli
> Ascheri
> Barale, Sergio
> Boasso, Franco - Gabutti
> Borgogno, Giacomo
> Borgogno, Sergio e Battista
> Bovio, Gianfranco
> Brezza
> Brovia
> Cantina del Glincine
> Castello di Verduno
> Cavallotto
> Conterno, Giacomo
> Cortese, Giuseppe
> De Forville
> Fenocchio, Giacomo
> Fenocchio, Riccardo - Pianpolvere Soprano
> Fiorina, Franco
> Giacosa, Bruno
> Giacosa, Fratelli
> La Spinona
> Marcarini
> Mascarello, Bartolo
> Mascarello, Giuseppe/Mauro
> Nada, Fiorenzo
> Oddero
> Piazzo, Armando
> Podere Colla - of Prunotto fame
> Produttori del Barbaresco
> Rinaldi, Giuseppe
> Rinaldi, Francesco
> Roagna, Alfredo and Giovanni - I Paglieri
> Rosso, Gigi
> Scarpa
> Scarzello, Giorgio
> Settimo, Aurelio
> Sobrero
> Terre del Barolo
> Vajra, Aldo
> Voerzio, Giacomo
>
>
> Dualisten: ( traditional and Modern style )
>
>
> Castello de Neive
> Chiarlo, Michele
> Einaudi, Luigi
> Fontanafredda
> Marchesi di Barolo
> Massolino - Vigna Rionda
> Paitin
> Punset
> Rocca, Albino
>
> Syncretists
>
> Producers who wants to preserve the tradionel taste and making the wine
> nevertheless "easier" for example by use of tonneaux or the wine partly
> assemble on barrique and the another part on large barrels (botti) and
> assemble these later.
>
>
> Batasiolo
> Ca'Rome
> Cigliuti
> Conterno, Aldo
> Grasso, Elio
> Manzone, Giovani
> Marchesi di Gresy
> Parusso
> Pertinance, Elvio - Vignaioli
> Sandrone, Luciano
> Voerzio, Gianni,
> Voerzio, Roberto
> Vietti
>
>
> New modernist
> Former traditionals. now fully modernist
>
> Ceretto
> Cogno, Elvio (Of Marcarini fame. Son-in-law has changed the style while
> keeping the name).
> Conterno, Paulo
> Contratto, Giuseppe
> Marengo, Mario
> Monfalletto - Cordero di Montezemolo
> Pelissero
> Pio Cesare
> Pira, Enrico - Chiara Boschis
> Prunotto
> Ratti, Renato
> Scavino, Paolo/Enrico
> Tenuta Carretta
>
> Modernisten
>
> Full modern style
>
>
> Angelo Gaja
> Sottimano
> La Spinetta
> Sandrone
> Domenico Clerico
> Conterno Fantino
>
>

Notes from Tomasso's (Joe's 60th)
The 1978 E. Pira Barolo was initially deemed by some others as at edge
of
over-the-hill, but I thought quite enjoyable. Medium color, a little
browning on the edges, good acidity. Initially I thought it reminded me
of a Burgundy with some age,
with Volnay-esque cherry fruit and some herb and soil. Some light
tannins
remaining. Later seemed to pick up a little weight, with more typical
Barolo
aromas such as tar and violets. Time to drink up. Really very pleasant
for a
$80 restaurant-list wine. A-