I'm considering barrel fermentation for a fall batch of Chardonnay. I was
thinking of purchasing a pair of 30 gallon barrels. I'm a little leery
however because I once tried a small (13gl.) barrel storage and the barrel
became infected with TLC (some really gross black stuff) which ruined my
wine.

My questions a

Do any wine making hobbyist use non-whiskey barrels for fermentation and
storage?

What do you have to be careful of? What are your sanitation practices? (I
used Barrelclean last time - nasty stuff.)

Do you have a North-east coast source of new oak barrels that won't bankrupt
me?


Thanks.

Frank Bacon wrote:

> I'm considering barrel fermentation for a fall
> batch of Chardonnay. I was
> thinking of purchasing a pair of 30 gallon
> barrels. I'm a little leery however because I
> once tried a small (13gl.) barrel storage and
> the barrel became infected with TLC (some really
> gross black stuff) which ruined my wine.
>
> My questions a
>
> Do any wine making hobbyist use non-whiskey
> barrels for fermentation and storage?
>
> What do you have to be careful of? What are your
> sanitation practices? (I used Barrelclean last
> time - nasty stuff.)
>
> Do you have a North-east coast source of new oak
> barrels that won't bankrupt me?
>
>
> Thanks.

If you live near Baltimore, you might try S&S
winegrapes. I don't believe they open until
September though. They carry some new and
refurbished barrels.

I would think you would get a LOT of oak in your
Chardonnay from a new barrel. You might want to
check out some wineries near you and see if they
would sell you a "spent" barrel that they are
going to replace. Fermenting in barrel will
require checking for H2S frequently and stirring
on a regular basis. I have never done this as a
hobbyist (did some at a commercial winery) so
others may offer some better and more complete
advice.

Personally I would never use a whiskey barrel for wine. A neighbor used
one and it gave his wine a real burbon flavor, but I'm sure he didn't
treat it first with barrel kleen.

You need to make sure not to allow the Chardonnay to finish fermenting
in the barrel. The more alcohol it has the more oak it will get. It's
a good way to break in a new barrel though. Just have something waiting
to go in.

I currently have a 5 gal american and a 60 gallon french oak barrel in
the basement. This fall I'm going to do a big batch of Cabernet and
plan on buying a couple 30's for long term aging.

I bought my 60 gallon barrel on ebay for $100 + $65 shipping using
Fedex. They advertised that the barrels were ozone'd after being
cleaned out. I have had a cab/merlot in it with no problems for a year.
The barrel new is about $700. It still had a lot of oak left in it.
You could smell the sweetness in it.


Frank Bacon wrote:
> I'm considering barrel fermentation for a fall batch of Chardonnay. I was
> thinking of purchasing a pair of 30 gallon barrels. I'm a little leery
> however because I once tried a small (13gl.) barrel storage and the barrel
> became infected with TLC (some really gross black stuff) which ruined my
> wine.
>
> My questions a
>
> Do any wine making hobbyist use non-whiskey barrels for fermentation and
> storage?
>
> What do you have to be careful of? What are your sanitation practices? (I
> used Barrelclean last time - nasty stuff.)
>
> Do you have a North-east coast source of new oak barrels that won't bankrupt
> me?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>

Consider Canada; the exchange rate helps a little.

Whiskey barrels are rarely 30 gallons and have the wrong toast level
too; besides the whiskey was in them for several years. That said, my
grandfather made good reds in whiskey barrels. A typical whiskey
barrels still has a gallon of whiskey stuck in it's staves; that is
hard to overcome the first year. Old Italians around here use that as
a way around using 'chemicals' like sulfite. I think wine made that
way is well, different to say the least. You can get it out of there
but you still have a charred, not toasted barrel unless you tear it
apart and scrape it clean and then toast it. If you are good with
wood you can do that, just mark the pieces first.


You want a toasted wine barrel. The barrelmill is pretty reasonable.

Joe

I did a barrel-fermented Chardonnay this fall. I used a new French
Oak (15g) barrel and I couldn't be happier with the results. I got it
direct from Bouchard Cooperage - (I forget their web address - google
it and you'll find it.).

I agree with the other guys - buy a good quality wine barrel. Buying
new is more expensive but so is your time and the contents. This is
one decision where you don't want to be penny-wise and pound-
foolish.

I wouldn't let new oak scare you, at least not new French Oak. My
Chard has been in the barrel 6 months and still expresses lots of
fruit. If aging sur lies, the dead and autolyzed yeast in the barrel
absorb some of the wood phenolics. As Paul mentioned,
stirring guards against reduction but also enhances the flavor and
mouthfeel. Keep the barrel topped up every 2 weeks or so. With a new
barrel I don't use any barrel treatment other than swelling the
barrel. Don't forget to sulfite judiciously every quarter. SO2 will
be lost more quickly from a barrel than glass.

There's lots of good advice about this on this newsgroup from very
experienced people if you search around. These people have helped my
efforts greatly.

RD

> What do you have to be careful of? What are your sanitation practices? (I
> used Barrelclean last time - nasty stuff.)
>
> Do you have a North-east coast source of new oak barrels that won't bankrupt
> me?
>
> Thanks.

You've had your Chardonnay in a new french oak barrel for 6 months?

I would have thought it would be over oaked.



RD wrote:
> I did a barrel-fermented Chardonnay this fall. I used a new French
> Oak (15g) barrel and I couldn't be happier with the results. I got it
> direct from Bouchard Cooperage - (I forget their web address - google
> it and you'll find it.).
>
> I agree with the other guys - buy a good quality wine barrel. Buying
> new is more expensive but so is your time and the contents. This is
> one decision where you don't want to be penny-wise and pound-
> foolish.
>
> I wouldn't let new oak scare you, at least not new French Oak. My
> Chard has been in the barrel 6 months and still expresses lots of
> fruit. If aging sur lies, the dead and autolyzed yeast in the barrel
> absorb some of the wood phenolics. As Paul mentioned,
> stirring guards against reduction but also enhances the flavor and
> mouthfeel. Keep the barrel topped up every 2 weeks or so. With a new
> barrel I don't use any barrel treatment other than swelling the
> barrel. Don't forget to sulfite judiciously every quarter. SO2 will
> be lost more quickly from a barrel than glass.
>
> There's lots of good advice about this on this newsgroup from very
> experienced people if you search around. These people have helped my
> efforts greatly.
>
> RD
>
>> What do you have to be careful of? What are your sanitation practices? (I
>> used Barrelclean last time - nasty stuff.)
>>
>> Do you have a North-east coast source of new oak barrels that won't bankrupt
>> me?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>

Not even close but barrel-fermentation and sur lies/battonage is not
the same as dumping a chardonnay wine into a barrel for oak aging.

Did you ferment and sur lies age in the same barrel?

RD wrote:
> Not even close but barrel-fermentation and sur lies/battonage is not
> the same as dumping a chardonnay wine into a barrel for oak aging.
>