May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all vines in our new vineyard
(in North Alabama)

May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for weekend

May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75 inches of torrential
rainfall on still wet (from spray application) vines. Dang!

May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall in North Alabama after
May 10 torrent..

May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied Mancozeb to all vines.
Prayed.

May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on periphery edges of most
varietals (see attached picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some hair.
Started to drink.

Looking for positive identification of disease of what to do moving
forward. Symptoms are apparent on many leaves making it impractical
and risky to defoliate since these are first-year vines with little
vegetation.

What to do? Are we in trouble?

HELP!!!

Thanks,
Charles Erwin

Forgot we couldn't use attachments. Check out the picture of the grape
leaf disease at http://www.knology.net/~erwincm/Disease.jpg



On Thu, 24 May 2007 00:31:18 -0500, Charles E >
wrote:

>May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all vines in our new vineyard
>(in North Alabama)
>
>May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for weekend
>
>May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75 inches of torrential
>rainfall on still wet (from spray application) vines. Dang!
>
>May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall in North Alabama after
>May 10 torrent..
>
>May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied Mancozeb to all vines.
>Prayed.
>
>May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on periphery edges of most
>varietals (see attached picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some hair.
>Started to drink.
>
>Looking for positive identification of disease of what to do moving
>forward. Symptoms are apparent on many leaves making it impractical
>and risky to defoliate since these are first-year vines with little
>vegetation.
>
>What to do? Are we in trouble?
>
>HELP!!!
>
>Thanks,
>Charles Erwin

Charles E wrote:

> Forgot we couldn't use attachments. Check out
> the picture of the grape leaf disease at
> http://www.knology.net/~erwincm/Disease.jpg
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 00:31:18 -0500, Charles E
> > wrote:
>
>>May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all
>>vines in our new vineyard (in North Alabama)
>>
>>May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for
>>weekend
>>
>>May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75 inches
>>of torrential rainfall on still wet (from spray
>>application) vines. Dang!
>>
>>May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall in
>>North Alabama after May 10 torrent..
>>
>>May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied
>>Mancozeb to all vines. Prayed.
>>
>>May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on
>>periphery edges of most varietals (see attached
>>picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some hair. Started
>>to drink.
>>
>>Looking for positive identification of disease
>>of what to do moving forward. Symptoms are
>>apparent on many leaves making it impractical
>>and risky to defoliate since these are
>>first-year vines with little vegetation.
>>
>>What to do? Are we in trouble?
>>
>>HELP!!!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Charles Erwin

Charles, I do not know about Alabama but some
states have people in their Ag Extension than can
help. If you were in Pennsylvania or nearby, you
could send in a tissue sample and have it
analyzed.

Don't be overly convinced that you have a disease.
It is quite possible that you have a nutrient
deficiency or excess - such as Potassium. I am
no expert but you should consider this
possibility. The dry spell you are having could
have made this problem worse. In the meantime,
keep drinking. Ain't this wine growing fun ;-)

I lost 90% + of my fruiting buds this year in
Central Maryland. Surrounding vineyards fared
better but I have a micro climate in my backyard
vineyard. I am near a ravine and the cold air
apparently goes down the hill and settles before
it proceeds it's downward path.

Ya, I am drinking more this year also.
Fortunately, I have an excess of wine in my
cellar from previous years and Mead making has
gone into high gear this year. I am also boning
up on cane pruning because I will be doing a lot
of it next spring to either go that route or
build new cordons for cordon-spur.

How much does it cost for a tissue analysis? If Alabama does not offer
the service, I wonder if I could send a sample to other states that
do? That's to bad to hear about your fruiting bud loss. I assume that
was from the late freeze? We're lucky this was our first year and we
obviously aren't worried about fruit. This could have been a total
loss otherwise. I'm hearing local peaches were devastated. That's a
shame. We have some of the best peaches in the US!

Thanks for the advice Paul. I'll check into the Ag service for help.

Charles


On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:34:22 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>Charles E wrote:
>
>> Forgot we couldn't use attachments. Check out
>> the picture of the grape leaf disease at
>> http://www.knology.net/~erwincm/Disease.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 00:31:18 -0500, Charles E
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all
>>>vines in our new vineyard (in North Alabama)
>>>
>>>May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for
>>>weekend
>>>
>>>May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75 inches
>>>of torrential rainfall on still wet (from spray
>>>application) vines. Dang!
>>>
>>>May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall in
>>>North Alabama after May 10 torrent..
>>>
>>>May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied
>>>Mancozeb to all vines. Prayed.
>>>
>>>May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on
>>>periphery edges of most varietals (see attached
>>>picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some hair. Started
>>>to drink.
>>>
>>>Looking for positive identification of disease
>>>of what to do moving forward. Symptoms are
>>>apparent on many leaves making it impractical
>>>and risky to defoliate since these are
>>>first-year vines with little vegetation.
>>>
>>>What to do? Are we in trouble?
>>>
>>>HELP!!!
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Charles Erwin
>
>Charles, I do not know about Alabama but some
>states have people in their Ag Extension than can
>help. If you were in Pennsylvania or nearby, you
>could send in a tissue sample and have it
>analyzed.
>
>Don't be overly convinced that you have a disease.
>It is quite possible that you have a nutrient
>deficiency or excess - such as Potassium. I am
>no expert but you should consider this
>possibility. The dry spell you are having could
>have made this problem worse. In the meantime,
>keep drinking. Ain't this wine growing fun ;-)
>
>I lost 90% + of my fruiting buds this year in
>Central Maryland. Surrounding vineyards fared
>better but I have a micro climate in my backyard
>vineyard. I am near a ravine and the cold air
>apparently goes down the hill and settles before
>it proceeds it's downward path.
>
>Ya, I am drinking more this year also.
>Fortunately, I have an excess of wine in my
>cellar from previous years and Mead making has
>gone into high gear this year. I am also boning
>up on cane pruning because I will be doing a lot
>of it next spring to either go that route or
>build new cordons for cordon-spur.
>

I don't remember the costs. I was going to have
it done last year but my problem seemed to
resolve itself. I believe the cost is in the $20
range.

They also do soil and petiole analysis. I
recommend you have this done. They will send you
a kit(s) and directions on how to take the
sample. You can call the number listed on the
link below. I am sure they can point you in the
right direction.

http://cropsoil.psu.edu/

Here is another link I think you will find
interesting and could steer you in the right
direction.

http://winegrape.cas.psu.edu/grapevi..._potassium.htm

Also, Ohio State has and excellent book on small
fruit production - can't remember the exact name
and my book is on loan. Lots of pictures and
advice and the price is very reasonable.

Did you have a soil analysis performed? Even if
you did, in drought conditions things can get out
of whack.

I am inclined to think you have a mineral
deficiency possibly brought on by lack of
moisture but this is ONLY a GUESS. A petiole
analysis would give you the answer or help.
Again, they are not that expensive. It is better
to get some solid facts instead of just guessing
(been there - done that).

Also, the Yadkin Valley in North Carolina is
becoming a big wine growing area. Perhaps some
people at the North Carolina Agriculture
Department could help since they are closer to
your area. I have found that Ag people are very
nice to deal with. They love their job and
really enjoy helping people.

Good luck and keep us informed what you find out.

Paul




Charles E wrote:

> How much does it cost for a tissue analysis? If
> Alabama does not offer the service, I wonder if
> I could send a sample to other states that do?
> That's to bad to hear about your fruiting bud
> loss. I assume that was from the late freeze?
> We're lucky this was our first year and we
> obviously aren't worried about fruit. This could
> have been a total loss otherwise. I'm hearing
> local peaches were devastated. That's a shame.
> We have some of the best peaches in the US!
>
> Thanks for the advice Paul. I'll check into the
> Ag service for help.
>
> Charles
>
>
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:34:22 -0400, "Paul E.
> Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>>Charles E wrote:
>>
>>> Forgot we couldn't use attachments. Check out
>>> the picture of the grape leaf disease at
>>> http://www.knology.net/~erwincm/Disease.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 00:31:18 -0500, Charles E
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all
>>>>vines in our new vineyard (in North Alabama)
>>>>
>>>>May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for
>>>>weekend
>>>>
>>>>May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75
>>>>inches of torrential rainfall on still wet
>>>>(from spray application) vines. Dang!
>>>>
>>>>May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall
>>>>in North Alabama after May 10 torrent..
>>>>
>>>>May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied
>>>>Mancozeb to all vines. Prayed.
>>>>
>>>>May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on
>>>>periphery edges of most varietals (see
>>>>attached picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some
>>>>hair. Started to drink.
>>>>
>>>>Looking for positive identification of disease
>>>>of what to do moving forward. Symptoms are
>>>>apparent on many leaves making it impractical
>>>>and risky to defoliate since these are
>>>>first-year vines with little vegetation.
>>>>
>>>>What to do? Are we in trouble?
>>>>
>>>>HELP!!!
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Charles Erwin
>>
>>Charles, I do not know about Alabama but some
>>states have people in their Ag Extension than
>>can
>>help. If you were in Pennsylvania or nearby,
>>you could send in a tissue sample and have it
>>analyzed.
>>
>>Don't be overly convinced that you have a
>>disease. It is quite possible that you have a
>>nutrient
>>deficiency or excess - such as Potassium. I am
>>no expert but you should consider this
>>possibility. The dry spell you are having could
>>have made this problem worse. In the meantime,
>>keep drinking. Ain't this wine growing fun ;-)
>>
>>I lost 90% + of my fruiting buds this year in
>>Central Maryland. Surrounding vineyards fared
>>better but I have a micro climate in my backyard
>>vineyard. I am near a ravine and the cold air
>>apparently goes down the hill and settles before
>>it proceeds it's downward path.
>>
>>Ya, I am drinking more this year also.
>>Fortunately, I have an excess of wine in my
>>cellar from previous years and Mead making has
>>gone into high gear this year. I am also boning
>>up on cane pruning because I will be doing a lot
>>of it next spring to either go that route or
>>build new cordons for cordon-spur.
>>

Thanks for the links and info Paul. The article on drought & potassium
was excellent. I'll bookmark this and save your post for later
reference but the mystery of this particular issue was actually solved
this weekend... Turns out one of my two vineyard partners allowed
RoundUp to drift while applying last weekend and didn't tell me until
symptoms started to show. That explains why I was seeing it on just
about all 12 varietals to the same degree. However, there doesn't
appear to be enough drift for significant leaf damage and we believe
the spots to be mostly cosmetic. In short, I think we'll be ok for
now.

FYI, we did have a soil analysis performed before planting the
vineyard this winter. Our soil was in pretty good shape except for
slightly high acid (common in Alabama) which we adjusted with lime and
slightly low magnesium which we plan to adjust by dispensing mag
through our drip irrigation system sometime soon. BTW, you don't know
of a good magnesium supplement designed to be administered through a
drip irrigation system do you???

Take Care,
Charles

On Fri, 25 May 2007 07:29:48 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>I don't remember the costs. I was going to have
>it done last year but my problem seemed to
>resolve itself. I believe the cost is in the $20
>range.
>
>They also do soil and petiole analysis. I
>recommend you have this done. They will send you
>a kit(s) and directions on how to take the
>sample. You can call the number listed on the
>link below. I am sure they can point you in the
>right direction.
>
>http://cropsoil.psu.edu/
>
>Here is another link I think you will find
>interesting and could steer you in the right
>direction.
>
>http://winegrape.cas.psu.edu/grapevi..._potassium.htm
>
>Also, Ohio State has and excellent book on small
>fruit production - can't remember the exact name
>and my book is on loan. Lots of pictures and
>advice and the price is very reasonable.
>
>Did you have a soil analysis performed? Even if
>you did, in drought conditions things can get out
>of whack.
>
>I am inclined to think you have a mineral
>deficiency possibly brought on by lack of
>moisture but this is ONLY a GUESS. A petiole
>analysis would give you the answer or help.
>Again, they are not that expensive. It is better
>to get some solid facts instead of just guessing
>(been there - done that).
>
>Also, the Yadkin Valley in North Carolina is
>becoming a big wine growing area. Perhaps some
>people at the North Carolina Agriculture
>Department could help since they are closer to
>your area. I have found that Ag people are very
>nice to deal with. They love their job and
>really enjoy helping people.
>
>Good luck and keep us informed what you find out.
>
>Paul
>

Charles,

I'm also in N Alabama. I've got a few vines here in Huntsville. Where
are you located? There will be a session on growing grapes in AL on
Sept 14th at the Birmingham Botanical Garden. Stan Roark at the
extension service in Wedowee has more info. That number is
256-357-2841. Drop me an email if you have a chance.

Dick

Charles E wrote:
> How much does it cost for a tissue analysis? If Alabama does not offer
> the service, I wonder if I could send a sample to other states that
> do? That's to bad to hear about your fruiting bud loss. I assume that
> was from the late freeze? We're lucky this was our first year and we
> obviously aren't worried about fruit. This could have been a total
> loss otherwise. I'm hearing local peaches were devastated. That's a
> shame. We have some of the best peaches in the US!
>
> Thanks for the advice Paul. I'll check into the Ag service for help.
>
> Charles
>
>

Hi Dick.. I've actually been trying to contact you. See following
message from a prior newsgroup post in which I was soliciting your
contact info. Please call or email if you'd like to meet. Thanks for
the info on the Sept 14th event. I've spoken with Stan on the phone
before and he's a sharp guy. I plan to attend:

Hi Dick. Our vines are surviving but we shall see how it goes at
summer's end. I'd like to meet you some time. I met Stephen Bailey for
lunch this week and found him to be a very nice and knowledgeable guy.
We Alabama grape growers are rare and should learn from each others
experiences. If you'd like to meet, give me a call some time. I live
in Madison and work in Huntsville. My work number is 256-535-2184 and
mobile number is 256-289-1029. Looking forward to speaking with you!

Thanks,
Charles


On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:50:17 GMT, Dick Heckman > wrote:

>Charles,
>
>I'm also in N Alabama. I've got a few vines here in Huntsville. Where
>are you located? There will be a session on growing grapes in AL on
>Sept 14th at the Birmingham Botanical Garden. Stan Roark at the
>extension service in Wedowee has more info. That number is
>256-357-2841. Drop me an email if you have a chance.
>
>Dick
>
>Charles E wrote:
>> How much does it cost for a tissue analysis? If Alabama does not offer
>> the service, I wonder if I could send a sample to other states that
>> do? That's to bad to hear about your fruiting bud loss. I assume that
>> was from the late freeze? We're lucky this was our first year and we
>> obviously aren't worried about fruit. This could have been a total
>> loss otherwise. I'm hearing local peaches were devastated. That's a
>> shame. We have some of the best peaches in the US!
>>
>> Thanks for the advice Paul. I'll check into the Ag service for help.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>

Charles,

It looks like it's either nitrient deficiency OR it could be you
burned the vines with fungicide. Did you mix and apply the fungicide
according to the directions. Also, I would almost guarantee that if
you have enough moisture in the soil you need not add any nutrients to
the soil. Mulching after a heavy rain storm will do wonders for you
vines. Plants can't get to any nutrients in the soil if the soil is
dry. Adding more nutrients to a dry soil will do squat if the soil
remains dry. Believe it or not, vines need lots of water, especially
if they are young. My rule is "Do not stress vines that are not at
least 10 years old".


Bob


Charles E wrote:
> May 10, 4:00pm - Applied Abound 2.08F to all vines in our new vineyard
> (in North Alabama)
>
> May 10, 4:15pm - Left to go out of town for weekend
>
> May 10, 5:00pm - Mother nature dumped .75 inches of torrential
> rainfall on still wet (from spray application) vines. Dang!
>
> May 11-23 - Drought. Absolutely zero rainfall in North Alabama after
> May 10 torrent..
>
> May 13, 9:00am - Got back in town. Applied Mancozeb to all vines.
> Prayed.
>
> May 23, 3:30pm - Noticed small brown spots on periphery edges of most
> varietals (see attached picture). Dang!!! Pulled out some hair.
> Started to drink.
>
> Looking for positive identification of disease of what to do moving
> forward. Symptoms are apparent on many leaves making it impractical
> and risky to defoliate since these are first-year vines with little
> vegetation.
>
> What to do? Are we in trouble?
>
> HELP!!!
>
> Thanks,
> Charles Erwin