On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>
> news >
>
>
>
>
> > Hi guys,
>
> > making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others have
> > been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a "Vieux
> > Chateau du Rio".
>
> > All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted too
> > sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the sg is
> > 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>
> > The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to 22
> > celcius.
>
> > I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white wines, which
> > have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>
> > Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red (a
> > merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy another
> > big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>
> > I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to conclusions ...
> > the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>
> > thanks in advance
>
> If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better group.

WHOOPS ! Sorry ... it's just I subscribe to here, since I started with
Beer !

"Jethro" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
>> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>>
>> news >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi guys,
>>
>> > making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others
>> > have
>> > been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a
>> > "Vieux
>> > Chateau du Rio".
>>
>> > All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted
>> > too
>> > sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the
>> > sg is
>> > 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>>
>> > The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to
>> > 22
>> > celcius.
>>
>> > I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white
>> > wines, which
>> > have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>>
>> > Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red
>> > (a
>> > merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy
>> > another
>> > big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>>
>> > I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to
>> > conclusions ...
>> > the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>>
>> > thanks in advance
>>
>> If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better
>> group.
>

Hi, I am just about to bottle 3 demijohns of Beaverdale so I know it fairly
well. The only thing I see is that the instructions ask that you do not let
the room temp drop below 20 degrees. If you are 100 per cent sure it has
stopped fermenting I would try a restart to kick it off again and watch the
room temp.

Rodders.

On 26 Oct, 20:06, "Rodders" > wrote:
> "Jethro" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
> >> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>
> >>news
>
> >> > Hi guys,
>
> >> > making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others
> >> > have
> >> > been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a
> >> > "Vieux
> >> > Chateau du Rio".
>
> >> > All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted
> >> > too
> >> > sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the
> >> > sg is
> >> > 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>
> >> > The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to
> >> > 22
> >> > celcius.
>
> >> > I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white
> >> > wines, which
> >> > have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>
> >> > Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red
> >> > (a
> >> > merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy
> >> > another
> >> > big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>
> >> > I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to
> >> > conclusions ...
> >> > the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>
> >> > thanks in advance
>
> >> If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better
> >> group.
>
> Hi, I am just about to bottle 3 demijohns of Beaverdale so I know it fairly
> well. The only thing I see is that the instructions ask that you do not let
> the room temp drop below 20 degrees. If you are 100 per cent sure it has
> stopped fermenting I would try a restart to kick it off again and watch the
> room temp.

Hmmm,

time to install that min/max thermometer then ......

On Oct 26, 8:43 am, Jethro > wrote:
> On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>
> >news
>
> > > Hi guys,
>
> > > making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others have
> > > been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a "Vieux
> > > Chateau du Rio".
>
> > > All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted too
> > > sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the sg is
> > > 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>
> > > The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to 22
> > > celcius.
>
> > > I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white wines, which
> > > have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>
> > > Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red (a
> > > merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy another
> > > big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>
> > > I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to conclusions ...
> > > the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>
> > > thanks in advance
>
> > If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better group.
>
> WHOOPS ! Sorry ... it's just I subscribe to here, since I started with
> Beer !- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You won't get under 0.990 with dry reds, that's hard even for dry
whites and their final sg is usually lower because they have less
extract. Also, many kit manufacturers design their red kits to end
with a higher final sg than wines from grapes. There is one full
bodied dry red kit I know of where the final sg is supposed to be over
1.000! Given that 1) this is your 4th red kit and they all ended
around 0.994, and 2) you don't have issues with white kits, I'd say
it's most likely the kits are actually done fermenting as they were
supposed to.

There is no special trick, just follow the instructions, with some
sanity checks along the way. You should watch that you don't discard
too much sludge when transferring from primary to a secondary
fermentor, that can sometimes cause the ferment to stick at the end.
And wait until the ferment has really finished, lots of kits say you
can stabilize when the sg is under 0.998 but a those levels red wine
would definitely tatse sweet. Temperature should not be an issue
although you could try ot keep it between 20-25C.

Pp

On 26 Oct, 23:20, pp > wrote:
> On Oct 26, 8:43 am, Jethro > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
>
> > > "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>
> > >news
>
> > > > Hi guys,
>
> > > > making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others have
> > > > been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a "Vieux
> > > > Chateau du Rio".
>
> > > > All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted too
> > > > sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the sg is
> > > > 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>
> > > > The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to 22
> > > > celcius.
>
> > > > I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white wines, which
> > > > have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>
> > > > Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red (a
> > > > merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy another
> > > > big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>
> > > > I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to conclusions ...
> > > > the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>
> > > > thanks in advance
>
> > > If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better group.
>
> > WHOOPS ! Sorry ... it's just I subscribe to here, since I started with
> > Beer !- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You won't get under 0.990 with dry reds, that's hard even for dry
> whites and their final sg is usually lower because they have less
> extract. Also, many kit manufacturers design their red kits to end
> with a higher final sg than wines from grapes. There is one full
> bodied dry red kit I know of where the final sg is supposed to be over
> 1.000! Given that 1) this is your 4th red kit and they all ended
> around 0.994, and 2) you don't have issues with white kits, I'd say
> it's most likely the kits are actually done fermenting as they were
> supposed to.
>
> There is no special trick, just follow the instructions, with some
> sanity checks along the way. You should watch that you don't discard
> too much sludge when transferring from primary to a secondary
> fermentor, that can sometimes cause the ferment to stick at the end.
> And wait until the ferment has really finished, lots of kits say you
> can stabilize when the sg is under 0.998 but a those levels red wine
> would definitely tatse sweet. Temperature should not be an issue
> although you could try ot keep it between 20-25C.

Hi,

thanks for that ... I must admit I try to leave as much sludge as
possible behind, after the primary fermentation ... so maybe I don't
help myself there.

Whilst what you say makes sense, it still doesn't explain (apart from
different kits, obviously) why the 2 5-gallon red kits I've made came
out just right.

Would I be correct in assuming then that taste at the end of primary
fermentation is not neccessarily a guide to finished taste ?

From my experience, on taste after primary and finished taste:

I've had some red wine kits that I thought I must have messed up from
the taste after primary, but after finishing and bottling and resting
for 6-12 months - I was amazed.
I've also had some red wine kits that I wanted to drink after primary -
smile. I just finished a Corvina kit, and when bottling, I had a hard
time not wanting to "pour a little more to taste"... but the
instructions say it will be wonderful after a year in the bottle.

DAve

Jethro wrote:
> On 26 Oct, 23:20, pp > wrote:
>> On Oct 26, 8:43 am, Jethro > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
>>>> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>>>> news >>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>> making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others have
>>>>> been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a "Vieux
>>>>> Chateau du Rio".
>>>>> All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted too
>>>>> sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the sg is
>>>>> 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>>>>> The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to 22
>>>>> celcius.
>>>>> I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white wines, which
>>>>> have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>>>>> Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red (a
>>>>> merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy another
>>>>> big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>>>>> I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to conclusions ...
>>>>> the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>>>>> thanks in advance
>>>> If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better group.
>>> WHOOPS ! Sorry ... it's just I subscribe to here, since I started with
>>> Beer !- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> You won't get under 0.990 with dry reds, that's hard even for dry
>> whites and their final sg is usually lower because they have less
>> extract. Also, many kit manufacturers design their red kits to end
>> with a higher final sg than wines from grapes. There is one full
>> bodied dry red kit I know of where the final sg is supposed to be over
>> 1.000! Given that 1) this is your 4th red kit and they all ended
>> around 0.994, and 2) you don't have issues with white kits, I'd say
>> it's most likely the kits are actually done fermenting as they were
>> supposed to.
>>
>> There is no special trick, just follow the instructions, with some
>> sanity checks along the way. You should watch that you don't discard
>> too much sludge when transferring from primary to a secondary
>> fermentor, that can sometimes cause the ferment to stick at the end.
>> And wait until the ferment has really finished, lots of kits say you
>> can stabilize when the sg is under 0.998 but a those levels red wine
>> would definitely tatse sweet. Temperature should not be an issue
>> although you could try ot keep it between 20-25C.
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks for that ... I must admit I try to leave as much sludge as
> possible behind, after the primary fermentation ... so maybe I don't
> help myself there.
>
> Whilst what you say makes sense, it still doesn't explain (apart from
> different kits, obviously) why the 2 5-gallon red kits I've made came
> out just right.
>
> Would I be correct in assuming then that taste at the end of primary
> fermentation is not neccessarily a guide to finished taste ?
>

From my experience, on taste after primary and finished taste:

I've had some red wine kits that I thought I must have messed up from
the taste after primary, but after finishing and bottling and resting
for 6-12 months - I was amazed.
I've also had some red wine kits that I wanted to drink after primary -
smile. I just finished a Corvina kit, and when bottling, I had a hard
time not wanting to "pour a little more to taste"... but the
instructions say it will be wonderful after a year in the bottle.

As far as moving the sludge into carboy, I'd suggest not doing that, as
the kits are made to be followed. However, I've found not to panic if a
little of it gets into the carboy. Topping with like wine is what I
prefer over topping with water. Seems to work.

DAve

Jethro wrote:
> On 26 Oct, 23:20, pp > wrote:
>> On Oct 26, 8:43 am, Jethro > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 25 Oct, 22:41, "Bob F" > wrote:
>>>> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>>>> news >>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>> making my 4th red wine from a gallon kit (Beaverdale, although others have
>>>>> been different). This one is a valpolicella. I've tried a Cianti, and a "Vieux
>>>>> Chateau du Rio".
>>>>> All of them have stopped fermenting after about 8-9 days, and tasted too
>>>>> sweet. Following my LHB advice, I've checked with a hydrometer, and the sg is
>>>>> 994 - I was told really less than 990 is right for a drier red.
>>>>> The demijohns are kept in the kitchen - temperature ranging from 18 to 22
>>>>> celcius.
>>>>> I'm puzzled, as is my LHB - In the same period, I've made 4 white wines, which
>>>>> have come out perfect. Also my beer has been good too.
>>>>> Is there a trick or secret to red wines. My first ever wine was a red (a
>>>>> merlot) 5-gallon kit, and that was perfect. But I'm reluctant to buy another
>>>>> big kit, until I know I can do it right.
>>>>> I've read about stuck fermentation, but don't want to jump to conclusions ...
>>>>> the fact this has happened more than once suggests it's me !
>>>>> thanks in advance
>>>> If you don't get the answer here, rec.crafts.winemaking might be a better group.
>>> WHOOPS ! Sorry ... it's just I subscribe to here, since I started with
>>> Beer !- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> You won't get under 0.990 with dry reds, that's hard even for dry
>> whites and their final sg is usually lower because they have less
>> extract. Also, many kit manufacturers design their red kits to end
>> with a higher final sg than wines from grapes. There is one full
>> bodied dry red kit I know of where the final sg is supposed to be over
>> 1.000! Given that 1) this is your 4th red kit and they all ended
>> around 0.994, and 2) you don't have issues with white kits, I'd say
>> it's most likely the kits are actually done fermenting as they were
>> supposed to.
>>
>> There is no special trick, just follow the instructions, with some
>> sanity checks along the way. You should watch that you don't discard
>> too much sludge when transferring from primary to a secondary
>> fermentor, that can sometimes cause the ferment to stick at the end.
>> And wait until the ferment has really finished, lots of kits say you
>> can stabilize when the sg is under 0.998 but a those levels red wine
>> would definitely tatse sweet. Temperature should not be an issue
>> although you could try ot keep it between 20-25C.
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks for that ... I must admit I try to leave as much sludge as
> possible behind, after the primary fermentation ... so maybe I don't
> help myself there.
>
> Whilst what you say makes sense, it still doesn't explain (apart from
> different kits, obviously) why the 2 5-gallon red kits I've made came
> out just right.
>
> Would I be correct in assuming then that taste at the end of primary
> fermentation is not neccessarily a guide to finished taste ?
>

The optimal temperatures for making wine is usually stated as between
20 and 30 C; higher can result in stuck fermentation due to yeast
dying off; lower can result in stuck fermentation due to dormancy.
Yeast slow down below 20C, they don't just quit usually. You can
warm it up or rack it to get them going again; racking introduces some
oxygen which the yeast may want. A little dip below 20 C is not a big
deal; it's often done on purpose to preserve fruitiness in whites and
some styles of red.

As to taste at the end of fermentation, that is actually a learned
process. Some reds are gawd awful at the end of fermentation but are
just great a year later. Others are nice the whole time. Most reds
improve with time, if you don't like it just try another 6 months
later. Grape quality and winemaking style affect this to a degree so
there really aren't any hard and fast rules. Just keep good notes on
your likes and dislikes.

Joe