I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're not,
I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...

1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
2. What would you say are must-have features?
3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to bottle
a batch of wine?
4. Any other suggestions or comments?

Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment.

u-vin? I googled it and still don't understand. Is this a "buy a kit and
do it on site" place? Please explain.

DAve


Waterspider wrote:
> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're not,
> I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to bottle
> a batch of wine?
> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
> replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
> quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
> want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment.
>
>

there's a guy in Boston who's doing something similar, I think. I've heard
that he's relatively expensive - positioned towards the (formerly?) monied
folks who like the idea of having a condo-made wine but don't want to get
their hands purple. I spoke to them by phone when they opened & they seemed
like nice enough folks... here's his site:
http://bostonwinery.net/index.htm





"Waterspider" > wrote in message
cablecommunications...
> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
> not, I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
> bottle a batch of wine?
> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
> replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
> quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
> want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment.
>

On Dec 29, 7:40*pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're not,
> I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to bottle
> a batch of wine?
> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
> replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
> quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
> want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment..

I went to a couple of these places in the Ottawa Ont. area ~15 years
ago. Often beer brewing was part of the store offerings. For wine,
they started customers from the juice/concentrate stage, bypassing the
grape delivery/destem/pressing/chemisty stages. I made a few batches,
where customer does the must prep and then goes away until bottling;
the store did the racking as part of their service. Bottling day was
fun and a few friends tagged along to help with washing/sterilizing/
filling (& sampling!!). Sometimes the owner would let us try some
wine from batches they made inhouse. It was an opportunity to hang
out with other customers, swap a few bottles from different batches,
and discuss all things wine.
Some attributes from the store I remember: educated staff, walk-in
cooler for fermenter storage, well laid out area for bottling with
study, multi-level bench, big sink with pressure nozzles for bottle
washing, sanitizer fountain, well lit, wine oriented decor, nice
background music
I live in Colorado now and they do not have these type stores that I
have found. I just started doing my own wine brewing in basement
earlier this year...but I miss the social aspects highlighted above.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your business!

"DAve Allison" > wrote in message
...
> u-vin? I googled it and still don't understand. Is this a "buy a kit and
> do it on site" place? Please explain.
> DAve

The required liquor license is called a "U-brew U-vin" and allows you to
sell the kit, juice or grapes, then store the wine after the addition of
yeast if the customer isn't going to make their wine at home. If it's made
onsite, the customer does the prep work and bottling.
>
>
> Waterspider wrote:
>> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
>> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
>> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
>> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
>> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
>> not, I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>>
>> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
>> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
>> bottle a batch of wine?
>> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
>> your replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
>> because, quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our
>> suppliers only want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our
>> competitors have no reason to want us to produce and excellent product in
>> a great environment.

"bobdrob" > wrote in message
...
> there's a guy in Boston who's doing something similar, I think. I've
> heard that he's relatively expensive - positioned towards the (formerly?)
> monied folks who like the idea of having a condo-made wine but don't want
> to get their hands purple. I spoke to them by phone when they opened &
> they seemed like nice enough folks... here's his site:
> http://bostonwinery.net/index.htm
>

Thanks for the link, it's given me ideas for our website. This guy is doing
a much larger scale production that we'll be doing, i.e. growing his own
grapes. Looks like a full fledged winery. There's a local family who started
a vineyard several years ago and we hope to be working with them too, but
they won't have any usable product for a couple more years. In the meantime,
we'll buy grapes from Vancouver.

Our customers will want to get their hands purple and be a part of the
process from selecting the kit or juice to corking the bottles, and that's
also a requirement of our Liquor Control Board.
>
>
>
>
> "Waterspider" > wrote in message
> cablecommunications...
>> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
>> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
>> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
>> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
>> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
>> not, I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>>
>> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
>> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
>> bottle a batch of wine?
>> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
>> your replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
>> because, quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our
>> suppliers only want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our
>> competitors have no reason to want us to produce and excellent product in
>> a great environment.
>>
>
>

"Andrew R" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 7:40 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
> not,
> I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
> bottle
> a batch of wine?
> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
> replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
> quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
> want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment.

I went to a couple of these places in the Ottawa Ont. area ~15 years
ago. Often beer brewing was part of the store offerings. For wine,
they started customers from the juice/concentrate stage, bypassing the
grape delivery/destem/pressing/chemisty stages. I made a few batches,
where customer does the must prep and then goes away until bottling;
the store did the racking as part of their service. Bottling day was
fun and a few friends tagged along to help with washing/sterilizing/
filling (& sampling!!). Sometimes the owner would let us try some
wine from batches they made inhouse. It was an opportunity to hang
out with other customers, swap a few bottles from different batches,
and discuss all things wine.
Some attributes from the store I remember: educated staff, walk-in
cooler for fermenter storage, well laid out area for bottling with
study, multi-level bench, big sink with pressure nozzles for bottle
washing, sanitizer fountain, well lit, wine oriented decor, nice
background music
I live in Colorado now and they do not have these type stores that I
have found. I just started doing my own wine brewing in basement
earlier this year...but I miss the social aspects highlighted above.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your business!

The place in Ontario you describe sounds very much like what we're going to
be doing. Our liquor license gives us the option of brewing beer as well,
but we have no interest in that (neither of us like beer, and it's a far
more expensive setup). I was surprised to learn that these licenses aren't
available in Alberta, and Saskatchewan just approved U-vins in July. I'm not
sure how common they are downstairs (USA) but would hope that they're at
least as common as here.

I'm happy to hear that the social aspect was important to you; it is to us
as well and we're hoping to foster that with, among other things, a wine
club. Do you remember anything about the Ottawa location that you would have
changed/improved?

To date, we've rented premises, applied for our license and lined up
suppliers. We expect to have the license approved by next month and open on
March 1.

I seriously doubt that he grows; my wholesaler said he buys from growers &
brokers ( California & Chile grapes, & Italian juices) like everyone else in
our area. Please keep the group posted as to your progress. Lord knows
postings drop off over the winter... HTH & good luck regards, bob



"Waterspider" > wrote in message
cablecommunications...
>
> "bobdrob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> there's a guy in Boston who's doing something similar, I think. I've
>> heard that he's relatively expensive - positioned towards the (formerly?)
>> monied folks who like the idea of having a condo-made wine but don't want
>> to get their hands purple. I spoke to them by phone when they opened &
>> they seemed like nice enough folks... here's his site:
>> http://bostonwinery.net/index.htm
>>
>
> Thanks for the link, it's given me ideas for our website. This guy is
> doing a much larger scale production that we'll be doing, i.e. growing his
> own grapes. Looks like a full fledged winery. There's a local family who
> started a vineyard several years ago and we hope to be working with them
> too, but they won't have any usable product for a couple more years. In
> the meantime, we'll buy grapes from Vancouver.
>
> Our customers will want to get their hands purple and be a part of the
> process from selecting the kit or juice to corking the bottles, and that's
> also a requirement of our Liquor Control Board.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Waterspider" > wrote in message
>> cablecommunications...
>>> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
>>> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
>>> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
>>> starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
>>> assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
>>> not, I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>>>
>>> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>>> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
>>> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
>>> bottle a batch of wine?
>>> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
>>> your replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
>>> because, quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our
>>> suppliers only want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our
>>> competitors have no reason to want us to produce and excellent product
>>> in a great environment.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Waterspider -

Sounds fairly standard for a FOP (Ferment on premises) store. These
are much more common in Canada than in the US, I believe. And to the
extent they exist in the US, they tend to be mostly beer, with wine as
a sideline -- I believe the one FOP in the MPLS/St Paul area is
something like 80% or more beer, and 20% wine.
My impression is that winemaking at these stores is pretty much
limited to kits, and probably a limited selection of those. No reason
you couldn't work from fresh grapes (in season) but that opens up the
potential for a lot more complication and time spent by the owner
(crushing, pressing, MLF, aging in barrels) -- the challenge is to be
compensated for that time without having the whole process be too
complicated or expensive. Kits are a lot more predictable, and you
can turn them around in 6 or 8 weeks. You are selling convenience and
fun, rather than cost savings, so I would think you'd want to have a
good selection of impressive labels to use, as well as distinctive
bottles, etc. Maybe even recipes that would go well with particular
wines, or party themes, or ... You'd also need to be open evenings/
weekends.

I believe I read not long ago that these were only legal in Canada in
a few provinces (but the bigger ones) -- BC, Ontario and (I think)
Quebec. But if that's where most of the population is, maybe that's
enough. Home winemaking is a LOT more popular in Canada than in the
US -- something like 10% of the wine consumed in Canada is home-made.
The comparable figure for the US would be some tiny fraction of 1%.

Another good place to get feedback on this kind of thing would be
www.winepress.us. It tends to get a lot more traffic that the usenet
group these days, and several of the regulars have owned/run homebrew
supply stores, and/or FOPs. So long as they aren't located across the
street from you, I think they'd be willing to share whatever wisdom
they've accumulated. :-)


Doug

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:40:21 -0800, "Waterspider" >
wrote:
>1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>2. What would you say are must-have features?
>3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to bottle
>a batch of wine?
>4. Any other suggestions or comments?

1. sticky floors. carboys that look dusty/dirty, and aren't full.
Employees/owners that bad mouth brands that they don't sell. Stores
that won't order a kit for a home wine maker. Stores that have little
stock.

2. cleanliness. stock.

3. any - I'm retired. But not in BC (anymore)

4. get out of the business now <GRIN>

I guess that I'm one of the winepress regulars that Doug mentioned. I
used to have a Ferment on Premises in Grand Forks BC. I have been in
many FoPs around the Hamilton - Niagara Ontario area recently. As a
rule, they depress me (see answer #1).

Steve
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I hit send and then thought about this other stuff.

Not sure where you are on the BC coast. If possible, visit many
stores, and think about what you liked and didn't like. Take your
wife and/or girl friend.

Women are great customers. But they are pickier than men in terms of
cleanliness. They are more likely to shop in a store that is like a
retail store than a warehouse. If they are happy, their girl friends
will show up, " I would like some of that great wine that Mary has."

Don't bother with a lot of gift items, they don't sell.

Steve
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Dec 30, 7:28*pm, Steve > wrote:
> I hit send and then thought about this other stuff.
>
> Not sure where you are on the BC coast. *If possible, visit many
> stores, and think about what you liked and didn't like. *Take your
> wife and/or girl friend.
>
> Women are great customers. *But they are pickier than men in terms of
> cleanliness. *They are more likely to shop in a store that is like a
> retail store than a warehouse. *If they are happy, their girl friends
> will show up, " I would like some of that great wine that Mary has."
>
> Don't bother with a lot of gift items, they don't sell.
>
> Steve
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

These are not very common in the States, the only succesful one I
personally know of is Grape and Granary in Ohio and this is only a
small part of that operation. I'm from PA.

I realize you don't like beer but I think you may want to think though
how much business you would be throwing away not making it. You use
exactly the same equipment as winemakers for fermenting if you
'extract brew'. 'All grain' requires a bit more equipment but people
can make excellent beer with malt extract especially if you steep
some grain in the process. It's actually faster to make and bottle,
an ale is usually pretty good within a month of brew day. That is a
lot of potential repeat business being excluded. Since you already
know how to make wine you actually know how to make beer, the steps
and skills are not all that different. I'm reasonably sure ther
skills are directly transferable beacuaes I make both and learned from
books.

Back to wines, I stopped in several of the brew on premises in Ontario
and agree with everything Steve already mentioned.

I'm assuming you want good all year business so you are going to have
to find the kit suppliers you think will do well in your area for
starting out; they really are better now.

If you can afford a walk in cooler at some point you would be suprised
how long properly maintained pailed juice can stay viable; I just
bought 24 gallons of juice from Walkers in NY 3 weeks ago and none of
it came in under 1.08 S.G.

As to grapes, you only have two seasons for those; your normal one and
mid winter when grapes come available from Chile. They make a mess
and you will need a good crusher stemmer if you ever want anyone to
come back after the ordeal of hand crushing and stemming so some sort
of area to deal with that needs thought through if you really want to
do that. That said, wine from good grapes (and you have them up
there) speaks for itself, you just need to invest a few grand in a
good crusher stemmer and a few presses.

Hope that helps, if you want to taslk about beermaking feel free to
contact me directly. rec.crafts.brwing is an excellent Usenet group
for info as an FYI.

Joe

On Dec 30, 12:29*pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
> "Andrew R" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 29, 7:40 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> > knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> > So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> > starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> > assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
> > not,
> > I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> > 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> > 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> > 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
> > bottle
> > a batch of wine?
> > 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> > Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading your
> > replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration because,
> > quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers only
> > want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> > reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great environment.

Joe is right that there is some business to be made from making beer
for customers. I do NOT recommend getting into all grain or kettles
or whatever. Make the wort kits (Brewhouse, Brewers Spring, Barons).
I would even avoid carbonating it, and just go with priming. You'll
get more beer customers if you carbonate, but will need a walk-in
cooler, method of carbonating, method of filling bottles, etc.
Probably not worth it for the amount of business that beer making will
generate.

If I was starting a new FoP, I would do those kits, and prime them, no
carbonation.

In Ontario, some of the FoPs won't even order a beer kit for me. All
they would have to do is add one item to their next order. Heck, I'll
even tell them the product code number if they are too lazy to find it
out on their own.

Steve
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"bobdrob" > wrote in message
...
>I seriously doubt that he grows; my wholesaler said he buys from growers &
>brokers ( California & Chile grapes, & Italian juices) like everyone else
>in our area. Please keep the group posted as to your progress. Lord knows
>postings drop off over the winter... HTH & good luck regards, bob
>
Thanks for the good wishes, and Happy New Year to you too!

One of our suppliers boasts that it gets juice and kits from an Italian
winery, and I'm eager to give that stuff a try.
I must (no pun intended) visit some BC wineries to learn if they will sell
grapes/juice directly, or even if they have kits available. BC has decent
wine and a large number of small wineries, and I'd like to be able to offer
a variety of high quality product. Assuming that the BC Liquor Control Board
allows such arrangements...

>
> "Waterspider" > wrote in message
> cablecommunications...
>>
>> "bobdrob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> there's a guy in Boston who's doing something similar, I think. I've
>>> heard that he's relatively expensive - positioned towards the
>>> (formerly?) monied folks who like the idea of having a condo-made wine
>>> but don't want to get their hands purple. I spoke to them by phone when
>>> they opened & they seemed like nice enough folks... here's his site:
>>> http://bostonwinery.net/index.htm
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the link, it's given me ideas for our website. This guy is
>> doing a much larger scale production that we'll be doing, i.e. growing
>> his own grapes. Looks like a full fledged winery. There's a local family
>> who started a vineyard several years ago and we hope to be working with
>> them too, but they won't have any usable product for a couple more years.
>> In the meantime, we'll buy grapes from Vancouver.
>>
>> Our customers will want to get their hands purple and be a part of the
>> process from selecting the kit or juice to corking the bottles, and
>> that's also a requirement of our Liquor Control Board.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Waterspider" > wrote in message
>>> cablecommunications...
>>>> I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
>>>> knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
>>>> So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I
>>>> are starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada).
>>>> I'm assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if
>>>> you're not, I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>>>>
>>>> 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>>>> 2. What would you say are must-have features?
>>>> 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
>>>> bottle a batch of wine?
>>>> 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
>>>> your replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
>>>> because, quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our
>>>> suppliers only want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our
>>>> competitors have no reason to want us to produce and excellent product
>>>> in a great environment.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
> Waterspider -
>
> Sounds fairly standard for a FOP (Ferment on premises) store. These
> are much more common in Canada than in the US, I believe. And to the
> extent they exist in the US, they tend to be mostly beer, with wine as
> a sideline -- I believe the one FOP in the MPLS/St Paul area is
> something like 80% or more beer, and 20% wine.
> My impression is that winemaking at these stores is pretty much
> limited to kits, and probably a limited selection of those. No reason
> you couldn't work from fresh grapes (in season) but that opens up the
> potential for a lot more complication and time spent by the owner
> (crushing, pressing, MLF, aging in barrels) -- the challenge is to be
> compensated for that time without having the whole process be too
> complicated or expensive. Kits are a lot more predictable, and you
> can turn them around in 6 or 8 weeks. You are selling convenience and
> fun, rather than cost savings, so I would think you'd want to have a
> good selection of impressive labels to use, as well as distinctive
> bottles, etc. Maybe even recipes that would go well with particular
> wines, or party themes, or ... You'd also need to be open evenings/
> weekends.
>
> I believe I read not long ago that these were only legal in Canada in
> a few provinces (but the bigger ones) -- BC, Ontario and (I think)
> Quebec. But if that's where most of the population is, maybe that's
> enough. Home winemaking is a LOT more popular in Canada than in the
> US -- something like 10% of the wine consumed in Canada is home-made.
> The comparable figure for the US would be some tiny fraction of 1%.
>
> Another good place to get feedback on this kind of thing would be
> www.winepress.us. It tends to get a lot more traffic that the usenet
> group these days, and several of the regulars have owned/run homebrew
> supply stores, and/or FOPs. So long as they aren't located across the
> street from you, I think they'd be willing to share whatever wisdom
> they've accumulated. :-)
> Doug

Excellent website! I can see why r.c.w. loses traffic to them; Usenet is
difficult for some people.

Nobody across the street from us, or even in the community. Pender Harbour
is a small place, only 2500 people on a good day (fortunately, most of them
drink wine). If you're curious, have a look at my website,
www.penderharbour.org. The biggest opposition to our venture may be the
government liquor store, about a block down the street, or they may not
care. It's a small town, so people tend to be more laid back and friendlier
than in cities. We'll see.

It seems odd that winemaking is more popular in Canada. I wonder how many
states allow U-vins? That could explain the discrepancy. I think you're
right about evening and weekend hours, when people have more time to kick
back and enjoy a hobby and a bit of socializing too. What do you mean by
distinctive bottles? The stores we've visited and the suppliers we've
checked out generally have only two basic bottles, one for red and one for
white. I like the idea of something a bit different, maybe a bit classier.
Any idea how I might find a supplier for specialty wine bottles? A quick
google returned numerous retailers and a couple of Oriental wholesalers who
won't ship less than a palette.

So many things to consider, and thank you for taking the time to provide
some good leads and ideas.

"Andrew R" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 12:29 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
> "Andrew R" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 29, 7:40 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> > knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> > So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> > starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> > assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
> > not,
> > I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> > 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> > 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> > 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
> > bottle
> > a batch of wine?
> > 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> > Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
> > your
> > replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
> > because,
> > quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers
> > only
> > want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> > reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great
> > environment.
>
> I went to a couple of these places in the Ottawa Ont. area ~15 years
> ago. Often beer brewing was part of the store offerings. For wine,
> they started customers from the juice/concentrate stage, bypassing the
> grape delivery/destem/pressing/chemisty stages. I made a few batches,
> where customer does the must prep and then goes away until bottling;
> the store did the racking as part of their service. Bottling day was
> fun and a few friends tagged along to help with washing/sterilizing/
> filling (& sampling!!). Sometimes the owner would let us try some
> wine from batches they made inhouse. It was an opportunity to hang
> out with other customers, swap a few bottles from different batches,
> and discuss all things wine.
> Some attributes from the store I remember: educated staff, walk-in
> cooler for fermenter storage, well laid out area for bottling with
> study, multi-level bench, big sink with pressure nozzles for bottle
> washing, sanitizer fountain, well lit, wine oriented decor, nice
> background music
> I live in Colorado now and they do not have these type stores that I
> have found. I just started doing my own wine brewing in basement
> earlier this year...but I miss the social aspects highlighted above.
> Hope this helps, and good luck with your business!
>
> The place in Ontario you describe sounds very much like what we're going
> to
> be doing. Our liquor license gives us the option of brewing beer as well,
> but we have no interest in that (neither of us like beer, and it's a far
> more expensive setup). I was surprised to learn that these licenses aren't
> available in Alberta, and Saskatchewan just approved U-vins in July. I'm
> not
> sure how common they are downstairs (USA) but would hope that they're at
> least as common as here.
>
> I'm happy to hear that the social aspect was important to you; it is to us
> as well and we're hoping to foster that with, among other things, a wine
> club. Do you remember anything about the Ottawa location that you would
> have
> changed/improved?
>
> To date, we've rented premises, applied for our license and lined up
> suppliers. We expect to have the license approved by next month and open
> on
> March 1.

The wine club sounds like an excellent idea, I do not recall this
being offered from the shops I dealt with. As far as improvements, I
would have liked to have had seminars on various aspects of making
wine, such as blending, differences in kit quality, juice chemistry,
etc. Otherwise, we had good experience in Ottawa so nothing glaring
comes to mind.
Another suggestion: Our local Denver brew supply store has the kit
vendors visit (for example, WineExpert from Vancouver area) so you can
meet with the reps. Given the home brew industry is big in Canada,
hopefully you can easily arrange this for your patrons.
By the way, there are some good beginner vidoes on YouTube you might
point your customers to, such as:
* Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEFZAeucEU
* Before You Begin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nnOqm8lhGI
* Primary Fermentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-UOHQLcRc
* Secondary Fermentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUIkHTTRxKQ
* Fining & Stabilizing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8C_ozEMhI
* Bottling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQNexhKjn8

Cheers (& Happy New Year)!

Hahah, I like the guy who says wine is safer to drink than water! Thanks for
those links, they're excellent I searched YouTube a few weeks ago and didn't
find anything useful-- either way over my head or poorly explained.
Coincidentally, WineExpert is one of the suppliers we contacted, but they
refused to talk to us because they have a client in Wilson Creek (45 minute
drive on the highway, hardly in the neighbourhood).

We are setting the wine club up, for starters, with free membership and a
system of giving everyone their tenth kit free. We feel that encouraging
people to develop an interest in wine can only improve our business, so an
investment by us will pay off (at least that's the theory). Never even
thought of inviting a supplier to do a seminar-- superb idea! One of them
has offered to send us some prizes (free kits, t-shirts and the usual swag)
for a grand opening, so they might be open to it.

Cheers!

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:40:21 -0800, "Waterspider" >
> wrote:
>>1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
>>2. What would you say are must-have features?
>>3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
>>bottle
>>a batch of wine?
>>4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> 1. sticky floors. carboys that look dusty/dirty, and aren't full.
> Employees/owners that bad mouth brands that they don't sell. Stores
> that won't order a kit for a home wine maker. Stores that have little
> stock.
>
> 2. cleanliness. stock.
>
> 3. any - I'm retired. But not in BC (anymore)
>
> 4. get out of the business now <GRIN>
>
> I guess that I'm one of the winepress regulars that Doug mentioned. I
> used to have a Ferment on Premises in Grand Forks BC. I have been in
> many FoPs around the Hamilton - Niagara Ontario area recently. As a
> rule, they depress me (see answer #1).
> Steve

I have never had the Sticky Floor experience, but that would turn me off
too. Especially for something that's going to be swallowed, cleanliness has
to be a top priority. One of the places we visited used plastic lidded
"baskets" with a Mateusish look, like wicker, for the carboys (or is it
carbuoy?). Great idea, but they would be a bitch to clean with all those
little indentations. This was a busy store, so they looked a bit grungy.

Now here's a stupid question (but, being from Grand Forks, I'm sure you're
patient with us folks from the Coast)... why would a carboy be not full?

It seems odd that a store won't order a kit for a home operation. That's
just shooting yourself in the foot. We anticipate and will encourage people
to buy their supplies for home from us, with the knowledge that sooner or
later, from time to time, they will enjoy letting us do all the work for
them :-)

We think this business will be successful... not just because we are
brilliant business people, geniuses almost, and will be supported by the
entire community (I wish). There was a U-vin business here, but the owner
and his wife divorced, she kept the house and he moved the business off the
Coast. So, a void in the market, coincidentally occurring when the BC
economy, if not that of the entire world, went for a collossal shit. Not to
mention BC's drinking-driving laws, which terrify most sane people and
discourage them from having a drink anywhere but at their own home. So, it
seems to be a right-place, right-time kinda thing. We'll see.

So you moved to Ontario for retirement? Very peculiar. Usually people in
Ontario move to the Sunshine Coast when they retire. Or maybe that's why you
did it...

Cheers, and Happy New Year!

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>I hit send and then thought about this other stuff.
>
> Not sure where you are on the BC coast. If possible, visit many
> stores, and think about what you liked and didn't like. Take your
> wife and/or girl friend.
>
> Women are great customers. But they are pickier than men in terms of
> cleanliness. They are more likely to shop in a store that is like a
> retail store than a warehouse. If they are happy, their girl friends
> will show up, " I would like some of that great wine that Mary has."
>
> Don't bother with a lot of gift items, they don't sell.
>
> Steve
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

We're on the Sunshine Coast, www.penderharbour.org and we've visited all
three other operations on the SC. To be honest, I'm impressed with all of
them, but I guess we don't know enough yet to be critical.

Um, no wives or girlfriends, but my partner's hubby figures our venture will
end up being a lot of work for him and my boyfriend will drink nothing but
Canadian beer. In other words, no help from either of them.

About the gift items, are you speaking from a male perspective? We have
great hopes of a nice little retail corner for wineglasses, decanters,
serving trays, coolers, corkscrews and other paraphenalia, not to mention
related books, art and t-shirts. Stuff I would buy. But, you want to destroy
my nice little dream....
<sigh> Typical guy.

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote

These are not very common in the States, the only succesful one I
personally know of is Grape and Granary in Ohio and this is only a
small part of that operation. I'm from PA.

I realize you don't like beer but I think you may want to think though
how much business you would be throwing away not making it. You use
exactly the same equipment as winemakers for fermenting if you
'extract brew'. 'All grain' requires a bit more equipment but people
can make excellent beer with malt extract especially if you steep
some grain in the process. It's actually faster to make and bottle,
an ale is usually pretty good within a month of brew day. That is a
lot of potential repeat business being excluded. Since you already
know how to make wine you actually know how to make beer, the steps
and skills are not all that different. I'm reasonably sure ther
skills are directly transferable beacuaes I make both and learned from
books.

Back to wines, I stopped in several of the brew on premises in Ontario
and agree with everything Steve already mentioned.

I'm assuming you want good all year business so you are going to have
to find the kit suppliers you think will do well in your area for
starting out; they really are better now.

If you can afford a walk in cooler at some point you would be suprised
how long properly maintained pailed juice can stay viable; I just
bought 24 gallons of juice from Walkers in NY 3 weeks ago and none of
it came in under 1.08 S.G.

As to grapes, you only have two seasons for those; your normal one and
mid winter when grapes come available from Chile. They make a mess
and you will need a good crusher stemmer if you ever want anyone to
come back after the ordeal of hand crushing and stemming so some sort
of area to deal with that needs thought through if you really want to
do that. That said, wine from good grapes (and you have them up
there) speaks for itself, you just need to invest a few grand in a
good crusher stemmer and a few presses.

Hope that helps, if you want to taslk about beermaking feel free to
contact me directly. rec.crafts.brwing is an excellent Usenet group
for info as an FYI.

Thanks for the good information, Joe.

I'm coming to the conclusion that we won't be doing from-grape wines for a
while and before making the decision we should get to know our clientelle
(which involves *getting* some clientelle) and learn if they're interested
enough to justify the extra space, equipment and cost it would involve.
We'll see.

We don't quite have a walk-in cooler, but we have a bulding constructed of
cement blocks, very easy to maintain a constant temperature in any of the
rooms. A cooler room will probably happen in October.

We considered doing the u-Brew (beer) with the wine, and it's still an
option for the future, but even a small operation would require an
additional $30,000 for equipment. The combo (wine and beer) operations I
visited all seemed to have a fragrance of fermenting hops and to be honest
this turned me off the whole idea (I'm not a beer lover). Perhaps it was a
cleanliness issue, but it was not pleasant.

Happy New Year, and Cheers
<a clink of my wine glass to your beer mug>

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> Joe is right that there is some business to be made from making beer
> for customers. I do NOT recommend getting into all grain or kettles
> or whatever. Make the wort kits (Brewhouse, Brewers Spring, Barons).
> I would even avoid carbonating it, and just go with priming. You'll
> get more beer customers if you carbonate, but will need a walk-in
> cooler, method of carbonating, method of filling bottles, etc.
> Probably not worth it for the amount of business that beer making will
> generate.
>
> If I was starting a new FoP, I would do those kits, and prime them, no
> carbonation.
>
> In Ontario, some of the FoPs won't even order a beer kit for me. All
> they would have to do is add one item to their next order. Heck, I'll
> even tell them the product code number if they are too lazy to find it
> out on their own.
>
> Steve
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

And I should have mentioned this to Joe, too.
We will definitely sell beer kits, and even that cheapie just-add-yeast to
the 2 litre plastic bottle (looks like a Coke bottle) of an ominous looking
dark brown liquid.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:05:38 -0800, "Waterspider" >
wrote:

Sorry, it seems that I guessed your sex wrong. BTW, the store closest
to me is run by a couple of women. They're the ones that won't order
the kits for me.

A couple of FoPs that I knew that were run by women used transfer
pumps. Spagnols used to sell them. Maybe they can explain them. It
means less carboy lifting.

I think that the first inkling I got that gift items didn't sell well
came from an FoP in Penticton that was run by a woman. The employee
mentioned stock having been there over a year. Based on my FoP, over
a year is very realistic. If you do the gift corner, be VERY careful
with initial stock levels. [Oh, sorry, it's a real good seller!!
Want a great deal on some stuff left over from my store????]

One thing that sold OK was Vacu Vin vacuum pumps. Vacu Vin some
really good products but they didn't sell that well. I use the pump
pretty much every day, and the cooler jackets regularly.

My location didn't really lend itself to people browsing past. If
yours does, maybe you'll do better than I did.

Good luck, Steve

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:54:02 -0800, "Waterspider" >
wrote:

>"Steve" > wrote in message
.. .

>I have never had the Sticky Floor experience, but that would turn me off
>too. Especially for something that's going to be swallowed, cleanliness has
>to be a top priority.

It was a busy store. Friendly staff, who are ordering a wine kit for
me.

> One of the places we visited used plastic lidded
>"baskets" with a Mateusish look, like wicker, for the carboys (or is it
>carbuoy?). Great idea, but they would be a bitch to clean with all those
>little indentations. This was a busy store, so they looked a bit grungy.

Pressure washer? More seriously, get a big sprayer for your sinks
like restaurants use.

>Now here's a stupid question (but, being from Grand Forks, I'm sure you're
>patient with us folks from the Coast)... why would a carboy be not full?

Italian 23 litre carboy which is really about 24 litres, and a store
that doesn't top up? I didn't ask.

Steve
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

>and even that cheapie just-add-yeast to
>the 2 litre plastic bottle (looks like a Coke bottle) of an ominous looking
>dark brown liquid.

It makes decent beer. But they have a relatively short shelf life, so
be careful with stocking levels.

Steve

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

> rooms. A cooler room will probably happen in October.
>
> We considered doing the u-Brew (beer) with the wine, and it's still an
> option for the future, but even a small operation would require an
> additional $30,000 for equipment. The combo (wine and beer) operations I
> visited all seemed to have a fragrance of fermenting hops and to be honest
> this turned me off the whole idea (I'm not a beer lover). Perhaps it was a
> cleanliness issue, but it was not pleasant.
>

As to the container question, it's 'carboy' and it refers to any
liquid container bigger than a jug, say bigger than a gallon. The
plastic covered fermenter was probably a demijohn, they sell those in
~ 7 gallon (US) and 54 liter sizes, they come from Italy. They can
come with a spigot too so some people like that feature for racking.
The larger ones are a little cumbersome but both are glass containers
so are easy to clean. The cover is 2 part and snaps together so can
be cleaned also. I never pick up mine full, too heavy, too dangerous.

As to the smell of hops and fermenting beer, you have a point there
but my winery/brewery is ventilated; all you would have to do there is
wall off an area for beer and ventilate it to the outside if you
didn't want the odor of beermaking mixed in with the odor of
winemaking. (My wife doesn't care for either so I added the
ventilation.) Ventilation is probably a good idea to begin with;
here is an online reference for that:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vrq...sult#PPA100,M1

All you need to make beer from a kit is a 5 gallon pot and a stove to
boil 2 gallons of concentrated 'wort' on for an hour; everything else
used is identical to winemaking. I make more wine than beer and
interchange the equipment; some people feel that is a bad idea but I
never understood that. I clean everything after use and have never had
an issue. If something picked up an odor of wine or hops I could
understand the concern but for whatever reason that is not happening
to me.

Ale yeast and wine yeast ferment at similar temperatures, only lager
yeast requires reduced temperature. I've never met an ale I didn't
like....

By the way, people down here like to make a wine for special
occasions, weddings for example. A means to make customized labels
might be a good idea too.

As to fancy bottles, google bellissima and see what comes up; that is
a pretty common bottle for ice wines. You may want to consider having
a stock of regular 375 ml and 1.5 l bottles too, that gives your
customers options for bottling that fits their consumption pattern.

Your approach seems to be right on, I would not want to overextend
early in a business either. I'm just suggesting the $30K sounds way
off for a brewing startup, I'm thinking a stove and pots are more like
$1K and both have multiple uses.

Joe

>
> As to fancy bottles, google bellissima and see what comes up; that is
> a pretty common bottle for ice wines. *You may want to consider having
> a stock of regular 375 ml and 1.5 l bottles too, that gives your
> customers options for bottling that fits their consumption pattern.

Here is a good link for bottles to give you a feel for what is out
there.

http://www.waterloocontainer.com/pro...?pid=51&cid=84

Joe

Due to shipping costs, most FoPs just stick with the bottles available
from their kit suppliers.

There is also a bottle supplier in Vancouver called Richards
Packaging.

Steve

On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:53:55 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
> wrote:

>>
>> As to fancy bottles, google bellissima and see what comes up; that is
>> a pretty common bottle for ice wines. Â*You may want to consider having
>> a stock of regular 375 ml and 1.5 l bottles too, that gives your
>> customers options for bottling that fits their consumption pattern.
>
>Here is a good link for bottles to give you a feel for what is out
>there.
>
>http://www.waterloocontainer.com/pro...?pid=51&cid=84
>
>Joe

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:37:44 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
> wrote:

>All you need to make beer from a kit is a 5 gallon pot and a stove to
>boil 2 gallons of concentrated 'wort' on for an hour; everything else
>used is identical to winemaking. I make more wine than beer and
>interchange the equipment; some people feel that is a bad idea but I
>never understood that. I clean everything after use and have never had
>an issue. If something picked up an odor of wine or hops I could
>understand the concern but for whatever reason that is not happening
>to me.

Give it up Joe, I'll bet that the gals aren't going to do beer.
There's two stores where I live run by women that won't even order a
beer kit for me. I don't want them to make it, just get it for me.

Steve
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

> Give it up Joe, I'll bet that the gals aren't going to do beer.

) Just a thought...

> There's two stores where I live run by women that won't even order a
> beer kit for me. *I don't want them to make it, just get it for me.
>
The exchange rate is pretty good for you now, if you spend around $100
at GrapeandGranary you get a discount that pretty much covers shipping
and you might be under the duty limit too. I drive over there because
their prices are better than here and it's over 100 miles away.

Joe

On Jan 1, 2:37*am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> > rooms. A cooler room will probably happen in October.
>
> > We considered doing the u-Brew (beer) with the wine, and it's still an
> > option for the future, but even a small operation would require an
> > additional $30,000 for equipment. The combo (wine and beer) operations I
> > visited all seemed to have a fragrance of fermenting hops and to be honest
> > this turned me off the whole idea (I'm not a beer lover). Perhaps it was a
> > cleanliness issue, but it was not pleasant.
>
> As to the container question, it's 'carboy' and it refers to any
> liquid container bigger than a jug, say bigger than a gallon. *The
> plastic covered fermenter was probably a demijohn, they sell those in
> ~ 7 gallon (US) and 54 liter sizes, they come from Italy. *They can
> come with a spigot too so some people like that feature for racking.
> The larger ones are a little cumbersome but both are glass containers
> so are easy to clean. *The cover is 2 part and snaps together so can
> be cleaned also. *I never pick up mine full, too heavy, too dangerous.
>
> As to the smell of hops and fermenting beer, you have a point there
> but my winery/brewery is ventilated; all you would have to do there is
> wall off an area for beer and ventilate it to the outside if you
> didn't want the odor of beermaking mixed in with the odor of
> winemaking. *(My wife doesn't care for either so I added the
> ventilation.) * Ventilation is probably a good idea to begin with;
> here is an online reference for that:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=vrq...pg=PA99&dq=fer...
>
> All you need to make beer from a kit is a 5 gallon pot and a stove to
> boil 2 gallons of concentrated 'wort' on for an hour; everything else
> used is identical to winemaking. *I make more wine than beer and
> interchange the equipment; some people feel that is a bad idea but I
> never understood that. I clean everything after use and have never had
> an issue. If something picked up an odor of wine or hops I could
> understand the concern but for whatever reason that is not happening
> to me.
>
> Ale yeast and wine yeast ferment at similar temperatures, only lager
> yeast requires reduced temperature. *I've never met an ale I didn't
> like.... *
>
> By the way, people down here like to make a wine for special
> occasions, weddings for example. *A means to make customized labels
> might be a good idea too.
>
> As to fancy bottles, google bellissima and see what comes up; that is
> a pretty common bottle for ice wines. *You may want to consider having
> a stock of regular 375 ml and 1.5 l bottles too, that gives your
> customers options for bottling that fits their consumption pattern.
>
> Your approach seems to be right on, I would not want to overextend
> early in a business either. *I'm just suggesting the $30K sounds way
> off for a brewing startup, I'm thinking a stove and pots are more like
> $1K and both have multiple uses.
>
> Joe

Some of my co-workers are homebrew beer nuts (pun intended) and they
use a turkey fryer burner and pot for the initial wort prep; I picked
one up for $30 at Target. At the other end, I made beer at a FoP with
stainless steel kettles and extensive plumbing, so I can see how $30K
can be easily invested.

On Dec 31 2008, 4:24*pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
> "Andrew R" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 30, 12:29 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Andrew R" > wrote in message
>
> ....
> > On Dec 29, 7:40 pm, "Waterspider" > wrote:
>
> > > I've been lurking for a while now and have decided that you guys are a
> > > knowledgeable bunch when it comes to wines and winemaking.
> > > So, I'd like to ask your advice about a new business my friend and I are
> > > starting: a u-vin, in a small community on the BC coast (Canada). I'm
> > > assuming many of you are familiar with this type of facility (if you're
> > > not,
> > > I'm happy to explain), so I wonder...
>
> > > 1. What have you seen that you dislike in u-vin operations?
> > > 2. What would you say are must-have features?
> > > 3. What times of days/days a week would be most convenient for you to
> > > bottle
> > > a batch of wine?
> > > 4. Any other suggestions or comments?
>
> > > Thank you in advance for your response, and I look forward to reading
> > > your
> > > replies. They will be taken under the most serious consideration
> > > because,
> > > quite simply, we don't really have anyone else to ask. Our suppliers
> > > only
> > > want to sell us the most expensive equipment and our competitors have no
> > > reason to want us to produce and excellent product in a great
> > > environment.
>
> > I went to a couple of these places in the Ottawa Ont. area ~15 years
> > ago. Often beer brewing was part of the store offerings. For wine,
> > they started customers from the juice/concentrate stage, bypassing the
> > grape delivery/destem/pressing/chemisty stages. I made a few batches,
> > where customer does the must prep and then goes away until bottling;
> > the store did the racking as part of their service. Bottling day was
> > fun and a few friends tagged along to help with washing/sterilizing/
> > filling (& sampling!!). Sometimes the owner would let us try some
> > wine from batches they made inhouse. It was an opportunity to hang
> > out with other customers, swap a few bottles from different batches,
> > and discuss all things wine.
> > Some attributes from the store I remember: educated staff, walk-in
> > cooler for fermenter storage, well laid out area for bottling with
> > study, multi-level bench, big sink with pressure nozzles for bottle
> > washing, sanitizer fountain, well lit, wine oriented decor, nice
> > background music
> > I live in Colorado now and they do not have these type stores that I
> > have found. I just started doing my own wine brewing in basement
> > earlier this year...but I miss the social aspects highlighted above.
> > Hope this helps, and good luck with your business!
>
> > The place in Ontario you describe sounds very much like what we're going
> > to
> > be doing. Our liquor license gives us the option of brewing beer as well,
> > but we have no interest in that (neither of us like beer, and it's a far
> > more expensive setup). I was surprised to learn that these licenses aren't
> > available in Alberta, and Saskatchewan just approved U-vins in July. I'm
> > not
> > sure how common they are downstairs (USA) but would hope that they're at
> > least as common as here.
>
> > I'm happy to hear that the social aspect was important to you; it is to us
> > as well and we're hoping to foster that with, among other things, a wine
> > club. Do you remember anything about the Ottawa location that you would
> > have
> > changed/improved?
>
> > To date, we've rented premises, applied for our license and lined up
> > suppliers. We expect to have the license approved by next month and open
> > on
> > March 1.
>
> The wine club sounds like an excellent idea, I do not recall this
> being offered from the shops I dealt with. *As far as improvements, I
> would have liked to have had seminars on various aspects of making
> wine, such as blending, differences in kit quality, juice chemistry,
> etc. Otherwise, we had good experience in Ottawa so nothing glaring
> comes to mind.
> Another suggestion: Our local Denver brew supply store has the kit
> vendors visit (for example, WineExpert from Vancouver area) so you can
> meet with the reps. *Given the home brew industry is big in Canada,
> hopefully you can easily arrange this for your patrons.
> By the way, there are some good beginner vidoes on YouTube you might
> point your customers to, such as:
> * * Introduction:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEFZAeucEU
> * * Before You Begin:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nnOqm8lhGI
> * * Primary Fermentation:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-UOHQLcRc
> * * Secondary Fermentation:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUIkHTTRxKQ
> * * Fining & Stabilizing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8C_ozEMhI
> * * Bottling:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQNexhKjn8
>
> Cheers (& Happy New Year)!
>
> Hahah, I like the guy who says wine is safer to drink than water! Thanks for
> those links, they're excellent I searched YouTube a few weeks ago and didn't
> find anything useful-- either way over my head or poorly explained.
> Coincidentally, WineExpert is one of the suppliers we contacted, but they
> refused to talk to us because they have a client in Wilson Creek (45 minute
> drive on the highway, hardly in the neighbourhood).
>
> We are setting the wine club up, for starters, with free membership and a
> system of giving everyone their tenth kit free. We feel that encouraging
> people to develop an interest in wine can only improve our business, so an
> investment by us will pay off (at least that's the theory). Never even
> thought of inviting a supplier to do a seminar-- superb idea! One of them
> has offered to send us some prizes (free kits, t-shirts and the usual swag)
> for a grand opening, so they might be open to it.
>
> Cheers!

Our local brewing supply store just opened last year. For their grand
opening (after about 3 weeks of operation), they had a number of door
prizes, including a starter equipment kit, books, wine & beer kits, a
few pre-made bottles from the kits, bumper stickers, T-shirts. I
scored a wine kit and a bottle of port, the latter I bought the kit
for so it generated some business for them. In addition to the store
front, they have web site using PayPal (http://
www.stompthemgrapes.com) so it makes it easy to shop with them.

Somewhere on this thread I recall seeing comment about why u-brew is
not so popular in US. I think this is driven by relatively cheap
prices due to low taxation and ready availability. Liquor stores are
everywhere, most in or adjacent to grocery stores. We had a friend
visit from Vancouver and she was amazed I can buy wine for 25-40% the
cost in BC. It helps we have the world's largest liquor store here in
Denver. Then there is the Trader Joe's grocery chain, with their
$2.99 "two-buck chuck"....decent California wine at a price I cannot
make for cheaper. The closest TJ near me is 7 hours drive so I u-
brew...its a fun hobby anyway ;-)