I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs using
a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it becomes a
lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full bodied
red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing water
into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.

This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait 6-8
weeks.

thanks

Joe

"Joe" > wrote:
> I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
using
> a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it becomes
a
> lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full bodied
> red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing water
> into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
>
> This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
> time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait 6-8
> weeks.

Joe,
I don't know what sort of wine you are making, but (IMO) the time of
transfer from primary to secondary fermenter is MUCH MUCH TOO SOON to be
filtering. As you noticed, all you accomplish is to clog the filter, and
expose the wine to far too much air (much less the water). Filtering is only
a means of polishing clear wine, or removing certain bacterial accumulations
from the surface. Rack without filtering until the final racking prior to
bottling. And even then it is probably not necessary.

I agree...

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe" > wrote:
> > I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
> using
> > a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it
becomes
> a
> > lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full
bodied
> > red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing
water
> > into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
> >
> > This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
> > time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait
6-8
> > weeks.
>
> Joe,
> I don't know what sort of wine you are making, but (IMO) the time of
> transfer from primary to secondary fermenter is MUCH MUCH TOO SOON to be
> filtering. As you noticed, all you accomplish is to clog the filter, and
> expose the wine to far too much air (much less the water). Filtering is
only
> a means of polishing clear wine, or removing certain bacterial
accumulations
> from the surface. Rack without filtering until the final racking prior to
> bottling. And even then it is probably not necessary.
>
>

oops. I wonder if I got it wrong.
I remember the 1st wine making book I read showed the juice being put
through 2 layers of cheesecloth after primary fermentation from the press
into DJ. However, now that I checked back it only shows the screen for
white wine making.
I only make a few batches a year so I have been grudgingly doing it so I
don't end up with 2-3 inches of sediment in the DJ. After my first rack I
usually have maybe 1/2" of sediment doing it this way. The last batch was
destemmed baco noir which I let ferment for 5 days to 1.010 and I am
planning on MLF on Saturday.

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe" > wrote:
> > I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
> using
> > a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it
becomes
> a
> > lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full
bodied
> > red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing
water
> > into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
> >
> > This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
> > time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait
6-8
> > weeks.
>
> Joe,
> I don't know what sort of wine you are making, but (IMO) the time of
> transfer from primary to secondary fermenter is MUCH MUCH TOO SOON to be
> filtering. As you noticed, all you accomplish is to clog the filter, and
> expose the wine to far too much air (much less the water). Filtering is
only
> a means of polishing clear wine, or removing certain bacterial
accumulations
> from the surface. Rack without filtering until the final racking prior to
> bottling. And even then it is probably not necessary.
>
>

Joe,
I'm not sure what process you are using but often a "press bag" would be
placed in the wine press and then the red wine and skins transferred in.
Then the wine is press and the bag helps to keep the solids out. Trying to
strain the wine going into the carboys probably is not the best way to do
this. Your method is most definitely harmful to a white wine which will not
tolerate the exposure to Oxygen like a red which at times will benefit at
the first racking. HTH
John Dixon
John Dixon
"Joe" > wrote in message
.. .
> oops. I wonder if I got it wrong.
> I remember the 1st wine making book I read showed the juice being put
> through 2 layers of cheesecloth after primary fermentation from the press
> into DJ. However, now that I checked back it only shows the screen for
> white wine making.
> I only make a few batches a year so I have been grudgingly doing it so I
> don't end up with 2-3 inches of sediment in the DJ. After my first rack I
> usually have maybe 1/2" of sediment doing it this way. The last batch was
> destemmed baco noir which I let ferment for 5 days to 1.010 and I am
> planning on MLF on Saturday.
>
> "Negodki" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Joe" > wrote:
> > > I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
> > using
> > > a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it
> becomes
> > a
> > > lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full
> bodied
> > > red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing
> water
> > > into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
> > >
> > > This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at
this
> > > time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait
> 6-8
> > > weeks.
> >
> > Joe,
> > I don't know what sort of wine you are making, but (IMO) the time of
> > transfer from primary to secondary fermenter is MUCH MUCH TOO SOON to be
> > filtering. As you noticed, all you accomplish is to clog the filter, and
> > expose the wine to far too much air (much less the water). Filtering is
> only
> > a means of polishing clear wine, or removing certain bacterial
> accumulations
> > from the surface. Rack without filtering until the final racking prior
to
> > bottling. And even then it is probably not necessary.
> >
> >
>
>

"Joe" > wrote:

> oops. I wonder if I got it wrong.
> I remember the 1st wine making book I read showed the juice being put
> through 2 layers of cheesecloth after primary fermentation from the press
> into DJ. However, now that I checked back it only shows the screen for
> white wine making.
> I only make a few batches a year so I have been grudgingly doing it so I
> don't end up with 2-3 inches of sediment in the DJ. After my first rack I
> usually have maybe 1/2" of sediment doing it this way. The last batch was
> destemmed baco noir which I let ferment for 5 days to 1.010 and I am
> planning on MLF on Saturday.

I don't think you would want to do this even with white wine, although the
author of the book apparently disagrees. Filtering is normally done only
once, just before bottling.

Normally, when you go from primary to secondary, the wine is still
fermenting. If you attempt to filter at this stage, you will filter out some
of the yeast colony and flavour ingredients. This may cause your
fermentation to stick (halt prematurely) or your wine to lack some of the
robust flavour you seek. There is nothing wrong with 2-3" of sediment in the
DJ (I'm not saying to leave it there forever), and if you let it settle a
bit before racking, you will probably find it to be only 1-2".

For red wines, you should let the wine clear for about one month (in a
topped-up secondary) after fermentation ends before the first racking. The
second racking (if needed) should be after another 2-3 months, and the third
racking (if needed) after another 3-4 months. More racking than this is
unnecessarily exposing the wine to oxygen, and a waste of valuable drinking
time. (IMO of course).

In article >,
"Negodki" > wrote:

> "Joe" > wrote:
>
> > oops. I wonder if I got it wrong.
> > I remember the 1st wine making book I read showed the juice being put
> > through 2 layers of cheesecloth after primary fermentation from the press
> > into DJ. However, now that I checked back it only shows the screen for
> > white wine making.
> > I only make a few batches a year so I have been grudgingly doing it so I
> > don't end up with 2-3 inches of sediment in the DJ. After my first rack I
> > usually have maybe 1/2" of sediment doing it this way. The last batch was
> > destemmed baco noir which I let ferment for 5 days to 1.010 and I am
> > planning on MLF on Saturday.
>
> I don't think you would want to do this even with white wine, although the
> author of the book apparently disagrees. Filtering is normally done only
> once, just before bottling.
>
> Normally, when you go from primary to secondary, the wine is still
> fermenting. If you attempt to filter at this stage, you will filter out some
> of the yeast colony and flavour ingredients. This may cause your
> fermentation to stick (halt prematurely) or your wine to lack some of the
> robust flavour you seek. There is nothing wrong with 2-3" of sediment in the
> DJ (I'm not saying to leave it there forever), and if you let it settle a
> bit before racking, you will probably find it to be only 1-2".
>
> For red wines, you should let the wine clear for about one month (in a
> topped-up secondary) after fermentation ends before the first racking. The
> second racking (if needed) should be after another 2-3 months, and the third
> racking (if needed) after another 3-4 months. More racking than this is
> unnecessarily exposing the wine to oxygen, and a waste of valuable drinking
> time. (IMO of course).
>
>

Negodki, This person is not talking about fine filtering -- just
straining the fermenting must through a cheesecloth. This will not
remove any yeast at all, only gross fruit solids.

I agree this is not necessary for most wines unless you have a lot of
fruit solid. For this I would recomment a coated metal strainer that you
can pick up at wallmart or a wine press with bag as suggested earlier
for larg batches. (See my chokecherry wine page for pictures of how I do
it). Otherwise, you should rack your wine from the primary off the gross
lees and transfer it to your secondary carboys.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email address)

Joe wrote:

> Also I am probably introducing water
> into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
>
> This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
> time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait 6-8
> weeks.

I wouldn't worry about the water, it's a very negligeble amount.

Before I put red wine into a barrel, I put it through a screen of sorts,
kind of like a tea strainer, but larger. I suppose window screening
might work as well.

You'd want to catch any of the large fruit particles, the yeast and
little bits won't matter so much, IMHO

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Sounds like it.

Usually the order is,

1)Crushing: crush grapes and let them sit on their skins for a time

2)Pressing:
a) put mash into a wine press (or in a press bag) and press the mash,
OR
b) use cheesecloth to hand press the mash

3) put the juice through a screen or seive on the way to the carboy to
catch any bits that got through the pressing stage

With fresh squeezed grape juice you will get some pulp getting
through. These cells will break open as they ferment and release extra
juice (bonus). The cell walls and dead yeast will sink to the bottom,
no way around it; just rack the wine off these lees after a week.

Mike
P.S. I have read of some wine makers letting the grapes macerate for
up to 30 days. I don't think you have done any harm, other than reduce
your yield.

M.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:35:23 -0400, "Joe" >
wrote:

>oops. I wonder if I got it wrong.
>I remember the 1st wine making book I read showed the juice being put
>through 2 layers of cheesecloth after primary fermentation from the press
>into DJ. However, now that I checked back it only shows the screen for
>white wine making.
> I only make a few batches a year so I have been grudgingly doing it so I
>don't end up with 2-3 inches of sediment in the DJ. After my first rack I
>usually have maybe 1/2" of sediment doing it this way. The last batch was
>destemmed baco noir which I let ferment for 5 days to 1.010 and I am
>planning on MLF on Saturday.
>
>"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
>> "Joe" > wrote:
>> > I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
>> using
>> > a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it
>becomes
>> a
>> > lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full
>bodied
>> > red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing
>water
>> > into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
>> >
>> > This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
>> > time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait
>6-8
>> > weeks.
>>
>> Joe,
>> I don't know what sort of wine you are making, but (IMO) the time of
>> transfer from primary to secondary fermenter is MUCH MUCH TOO SOON to be
>> filtering. As you noticed, all you accomplish is to clog the filter, and
>> expose the wine to far too much air (much less the water). Filtering is
>only
>> a means of polishing clear wine, or removing certain bacterial
>accumulations
>> from the surface. Rack without filtering until the final racking prior to
>> bottling. And even then it is probably not necessary.
>>
>>
>
>

Thanks to all for the suggestions.
From now on I will either put a "press bag" in the press or use a particle
strainer only. This should save me a little time in the process and reduce
the exposure of the wine to oxygen.

Joe

"Joe" > wrote in message
.. .
> I find when I transfer from the primary fermentation container to DJs
using
> a cheese cloth filter that the cheese cloth keeps clogging and it becomes
a
> lot of work to keep cleaning it. This is especially true with full bodied
> red wines allowed to ferment fully. Also I am probably introducing water
> into the wine by repeated rinsing of the cheese cloth in so2 solution.
>
> This may sound lazy but can I omit using the cheesecloth filter at this
> time? Maybe if I rack again as soon as MLF completes rather than wait 6-8
> weeks.
>
> thanks
>
> Joe
>
>
>

Joe wrote:

> This should save me a little time in the process and reduce
> the exposure of the wine to oxygen.

If it's a red wine and you're the fermentation is just finished, I
wouldn't worry about oxygen exposure, especially the little bit you'd
get at racking from primary... the air probably does the wine good at
the time.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields