Hi,
started a batch of concord wine.
first two days were ok...
had processed all the grapes through a processor, which extracted much juice
and some pulp...

There was a decent cap for the first 2-3 days - a very mushy cap.
After I removed it, then came.....THE FOAM!
When I kept the lid on, the foam would build and push the lid up, aside a
bit,
and then spill out of the primary onto the floor.
Ugh, what a mess.......it's been doing that for 2-3 days....the way to
control the foam buildup is to keep the lid partly off, but then there are
fruitflies.
I put the lid back on after rinsing off the lid, and wiping off the walls of
the primary, and soon the foam builds back up in a couple of hours.

has any one ever have to deal with that? Any remedies?
Last night I put spacers between my lid, which kept it up about 1/2 inch,
and draped paper towelling around the open spaces to prevent fruitflies from
getting in, and it did not spill for the first time in 2 days. But I hate
to leave it open like that for too long.

I'm trying to figure out what caused it....possibly mixing different sugars?
regular granulated sugar, and then some of the dextrose I had left over
because I ran out of normal sugar? could that have caused the excessive
buildup of frothy foam? Freaky! hopefully, a fantastic wine!

Thanks.
Rick

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:

> Hi,
> started a batch of concord wine.
> first two days were ok...
> had processed all the grapes through a processor, which extracted much
juice
> and some pulp...
>
> There was a decent cap for the first 2-3 days - a very mushy cap.
> After I removed it, then came.....THE FOAM!
> When I kept the lid on, the foam would build and push the lid up, aside a
> bit,
> and then spill out of the primary onto the floor.
> Ugh, what a mess.......it's been doing that for 2-3 days....the way to
> control the foam buildup is to keep the lid partly off, but then there are
> fruitflies.
> I put the lid back on after rinsing off the lid, and wiping off the walls
of
> the primary, and soon the foam builds back up in a couple of hours.
>
> has any one ever have to deal with that? Any remedies?
> Last night I put spacers between my lid, which kept it up about 1/2 inch,
> and draped paper towelling around the open spaces to prevent fruitflies
from
> getting in, and it did not spill for the first time in 2 days. But I hate
> to leave it open like that for too long.
>
> I'm trying to figure out what caused it....possibly mixing different
sugars?
> regular granulated sugar, and then some of the dextrose I had left over
> because I ran out of normal sugar? could that have caused the excessive
> buildup of frothy foam? Freaky! hopefully, a fantastic wine!
>
> Thanks.
> Rick

Firstly, you need to use a bigger primary. There should be 25-40% headroom.
The fermentation will produce enough CO2 that this is not a problem. If you
don't have a bigger primary, use two!

Inexpensive primaries:
----------------------
5-gallon WHITE plastic paint-buckets cost $2 at Home Depot and Walmart. The
lids are another $1. You can drill a small hole and insert a standard 3/8"
grommet for an airlock.

WHITE, YELLOW, and GRAY Rubbermaid BRUTE containers (not their cheaper
grade) are food grade. 10-gallon containers are about $10 (with lid), and
20-gallon containers are about $15, at Home Depot. They are about
three-times that amount at a restaurant supply or homebrew shop. If there is
a discount restaurant supply in your area, there is another brand which is
the same quality and less expensive. The lids of these containers are loose
enough to act as their own air-lock if you put a 1-2 pound weight on them.

Well, I was using a 6.5 gallon...but maybe the 10 gallon would be a good
idea!
thanks.
rick

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > started a batch of concord wine.
> > first two days were ok...
> > had processed all the grapes through a processor, which extracted much
> juice
> > and some pulp...
> >
> > There was a decent cap for the first 2-3 days - a very mushy cap.
> > After I removed it, then came.....THE FOAM!
> > When I kept the lid on, the foam would build and push the lid up, aside
a
> > bit,
> > and then spill out of the primary onto the floor.
> > Ugh, what a mess.......it's been doing that for 2-3 days....the way to
> > control the foam buildup is to keep the lid partly off, but then there
are
> > fruitflies.
> > I put the lid back on after rinsing off the lid, and wiping off the
walls
> of
> > the primary, and soon the foam builds back up in a couple of hours.
> >
> > has any one ever have to deal with that? Any remedies?
> > Last night I put spacers between my lid, which kept it up about 1/2
inch,
> > and draped paper towelling around the open spaces to prevent fruitflies
> from
> > getting in, and it did not spill for the first time in 2 days. But I
hate
> > to leave it open like that for too long.
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out what caused it....possibly mixing different
> sugars?
> > regular granulated sugar, and then some of the dextrose I had left over
> > because I ran out of normal sugar? could that have caused the excessive
> > buildup of frothy foam? Freaky! hopefully, a fantastic wine!
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Rick
>
> Firstly, you need to use a bigger primary. There should be 25-40%
headroom.
> The fermentation will produce enough CO2 that this is not a problem. If
you
> don't have a bigger primary, use two!
>
> Inexpensive primaries:
> ----------------------
> 5-gallon WHITE plastic paint-buckets cost $2 at Home Depot and Walmart.
The
> lids are another $1. You can drill a small hole and insert a standard 3/8"
> grommet for an airlock.
>
> WHITE, YELLOW, and GRAY Rubbermaid BRUTE containers (not their cheaper
> grade) are food grade. 10-gallon containers are about $10 (with lid), and
> 20-gallon containers are about $15, at Home Depot. They are about
> three-times that amount at a restaurant supply or homebrew shop. If there
is
> a discount restaurant supply in your area, there is another brand which is
> the same quality and less expensive. The lids of these containers are
loose
> enough to act as their own air-lock if you put a 1-2 pound weight on them.
>
>

Hi Rick,

Did you use a wine yeast? If not, this is some wild strain that has
got off to a normal start for its initial low concentration.

To control the foam, stir the heck out of the must once a day (leave
the spoon in batch in between and use a plastic bag instead of the
lid). You should notice on the second or third day that the cap drops
as for a normal batch of wine. Rack soon after that.

I would also use a little extra bisulfite to make sure that all wild
strains are dead in stabilizing this batch. If you are very lucky you
will have a SUPER wine (that you will never reproduce because of those
particular yeasts). If this one tastes good at six months keep it for
yourself.

--Irene

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> started a batch of concord wine.
> first two days were ok...
>
> There was a decent cap for the first 2-3 days - a very mushy cap.
> After I removed it, then came.....THE FOAM!
> When I kept the lid on, the foam would build and push the lid up, aside a
> bit,
> and then spill out of the primary onto the floor.
> Ugh, what a mess.......it's been doing that for 2-3 days....the way to
> control the foam buildup is to keep the lid partly off, but then there are
> fruitflies.
>

Irene,

Reasonable levels of sulfur dioxide will not kill yeast. It only stuns wild
yeasts for a few hours. (See Zoecklein, "Wine Analysis and Production,"
page 283-286).

Adding sulfur dioxide to an ongoing fermentation is seldom desirable.
Acetaldehyde is produced in the next to last step of the fermentation
process, and the added SO2 will quickly combine with the acetaldehyde
leaving excessive amounts of acetaldehyde in the finished wine. (See
Margalit, "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," page 267.

Regards,
lum

"Irene" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi Rick,
>
> Did you use a wine yeast? If not, this is some wild strain that has
> got off to a normal start for its initial low concentration.
>
> To control the foam, stir the heck out of the must once a day (leave
> the spoon in batch in between and use a plastic bag instead of the
> lid). You should notice on the second or third day that the cap drops
> as for a normal batch of wine. Rack soon after that.
>
> I would also use a little extra bisulfite to make sure that all wild
> strains are dead in stabilizing this batch. If you are very lucky you
> will have a SUPER wine (that you will never reproduce because of those
> particular yeasts). If this one tastes good at six months keep it for
> yourself.
>
> --Irene
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
>...
> > Hi,
> > started a batch of concord wine.
> > first two days were ok...
> >
> > There was a decent cap for the first 2-3 days - a very mushy cap.
> > After I removed it, then came.....THE FOAM!
> > When I kept the lid on, the foam would build and push the lid up, aside
a
> > bit,
> > and then spill out of the primary onto the floor.
> > Ugh, what a mess.......it's been doing that for 2-3 days....the way to
> > control the foam buildup is to keep the lid partly off, but then there
are
> > fruitflies.
> >

Rick,
Not that it matters now, but antifoam may have helped there. It's a
silicone oil emulsion. I like the bigger primary idea too, or just
use a carboy to reduce the volume in the primary.

I would not sulfite now as Lum mentioned, let it have at it and go
from there.
Regards,
Joe

"Lum" > wrote in message >...
> Irene,
>
> Reasonable levels of sulfur dioxide will not kill yeast. It only stuns wild
> yeasts for a few hours. (See Zoecklein, "Wine Analysis and Production,"
> page 283-286).
>
> Adding sulfur dioxide to an ongoing fermentation is seldom desirable.
> Acetaldehyde is produced in the next to last step of the fermentation
> process, and the added SO2 will quickly combine with the acetaldehyde
> leaving excessive amounts of acetaldehyde in the finished wine. (See
> Margalit, "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," page 267.
>
> Regards,
> lum
>

I didn't mean to add the metabisulfite right away, eh?

I meant, at the time when you would normally stabilize, you would use
a little extra, as insurance, since the wild strains have a different
tolerance to alcohol and other factors. I lost my first batch of kit
wine to wild yeasts because I was not told by Brew King that their
final SO2 is 25ppm...

Irene

"Lum" > wrote in message >...
> Irene,
>
> Reasonable levels of sulfur dioxide will not kill yeast. It only stuns wild
> yeasts for a few hours. (See Zoecklein, "Wine Analysis and Production,"
> page 283-286).
>
> > I would also use a little extra bisulfite to make sure that all wild
> > strains are dead in stabilizing this batch. If you are very lucky you
> > will have a SUPER wine (that you will never reproduce because of those
> > particular yeasts). If this one tastes good at six months keep it for
> > yourself.
> >
> > --Irene
> >

"Irene" > wrote in message
om...
> I didn't mean to add the metabisulfite right away, eh?
>
> I meant, at the time when you would normally stabilize, you would use
> a little extra, as insurance, since the wild strains have a different
> tolerance to alcohol and other factors. I lost my first batch of kit
> wine to wild yeasts because I was not told by Brew King that their
> final SO2 is 25ppm...
>
> Irene

Irene,
SO2 is quite effective in controlling wine bacteria. But, even high levels
(~100 ppm) of SO2 will not kill most types of yeast, so I am confused (not
unusual these days).
lum

"Irene" > wrote in message
om...
> I lost my first batch of kit
> wine to wild yeasts because I was not told by Brew King that their
> final SO2 is 25ppm...

I suspect that you lost that first kit to airspace in the carboy above wine
that was insufficiently sulfited, which allowed film yeast to
propagate/thrive.

Headspace is the enemy of wine. So is low SO2.

So also is SO2 that is too _high_. Maybe bugs won't grow in it, but _you_
won't be able to drink it either.

Tom S

well, I racked it into a 6.5 gallon carboy,
the foaming is very controlled now...
didn't add any so2 yet...
The heavier sediment is already settling,
and it's still bubbling quite nicely!

I did stir it up a lot,
and got it out of that now dirty primary.
looks like it will be a good batch.
Thanks for your comments!
Rick