This is along the same lines as my previous post.

Its a fact that the orbit of the moon varies up to say 5000km during a
normal monthy (28day) orbit of the moon - right? The perigee and
apogee, (vertical position in reference to the equator), also vary
during a 27 day cycle.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html

Its also a fact that the Sun also has a gravitational influence on our
liquids but it is 2 1/2 times less than the Moon.

So if the moon can afect tides, by pulling water away from the earth
due to gravitational influence, can it also affect our Hydrometer
readings? Bear in mind that if the moon is pulling at our precious
brew at the same force as the ocean, then our brew should be less
dense right? If its less dense then our hydrometer will sink more,
won't it? If so then we could be getting a false SG reading because
the brew will appear a lower SG than it really is.

Lets say it's a Full Moon at its perigee in Cairns - Australia on Dec
22nd 2003, (its also a high tide), and we take a Hydrometer reading at
Sea Level with Pressure 1010mb - and it reads SG 0.992, then what will
the SG read when the moon is at is apogee on Jan 3rd 2004, at sea
level, with the same atmospheric pressure? Might it read higher?

I can hear many say - WHO CARES? But the reality is this, with many
wines I have measured the same SG but with noticably slight variations
in sweetness when tasting - even though I am using the same juice and
methodology for winemaking and the same hydrometer. Some might put it
down to variations in the actual juice and differences in yeast colony
count, etc...

But could the relative local atmospheric pressure and Moon position
influence the accuracy of my SG readings?

Cheers,
Steve!

Dunno about the moons influence, but sg is basically a reflection of
all dissolved substances, of which alcohol and sugar are two.
By defenition, a difference in TA of 0.1% would also give a sg
difference of 0.001 (g/ml), not much but it's only one of the
variables.


My gutfeeling is that the moon doesn't influence the hydrometer at
all, as it is measured *relative* to the fluid, it's not an absolute
measurement!

Rene.

(OzWineKitz) wrote in message . com>...
> This is along the same lines as my previous post.
>
> Its a fact that the orbit of the moon varies up to say 5000km during a
> normal monthy (28day) orbit of the moon - right? The perigee and
> apogee, (vertical position in reference to the equator), also vary
> during a 27 day cycle.
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html
>
> Its also a fact that the Sun also has a gravitational influence on our
> liquids but it is 2 1/2 times less than the Moon.
>
> So if the moon can afect tides, by pulling water away from the earth
> due to gravitational influence, can it also affect our Hydrometer
> readings? Bear in mind that if the moon is pulling at our precious
> brew at the same force as the ocean, then our brew should be less
> dense right? If its less dense then our hydrometer will sink more,
> won't it? If so then we could be getting a false SG reading because
> the brew will appear a lower SG than it really is.
>
> Lets say it's a Full Moon at its perigee in Cairns - Australia on Dec
> 22nd 2003, (its also a high tide), and we take a Hydrometer reading at
> Sea Level with Pressure 1010mb - and it reads SG 0.992, then what will
> the SG read when the moon is at is apogee on Jan 3rd 2004, at sea
> level, with the same atmospheric pressure? Might it read higher?
>
> I can hear many say - WHO CARES? But the reality is this, with many
> wines I have measured the same SG but with noticably slight variations
> in sweetness when tasting - even though I am using the same juice and
> methodology for winemaking and the same hydrometer. Some might put it
> down to variations in the actual juice and differences in yeast colony
> count, etc...
>
> But could the relative local atmospheric pressure and Moon position
> influence the accuracy of my SG readings?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve!

The moon doesn't attract only the sea, but everything. Since the oceans
covers the whole planet, it's influence is more obvious. It doesn't change
the "specific gravity" of liquids, it only attracts it like a magnet. If
the ships don't float more or less depending on the moon, neither will your
hydrometer. As Rene says, it'a a relative reading. The brew and the
hydrometer will both have the same influence, and the reading wil be
accurate.


"OzWineKitz" > wrote in message
om...
> This is along the same lines as my previous post.
>
> Its a fact that the orbit of the moon varies up to say 5000km during a
> normal monthy (28day) orbit of the moon - right? The perigee and
> apogee, (vertical position in reference to the equator), also vary
> during a 27 day cycle.
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html
>
> Its also a fact that the Sun also has a gravitational influence on our
> liquids but it is 2 1/2 times less than the Moon.
>
> So if the moon can afect tides, by pulling water away from the earth
> due to gravitational influence, can it also affect our Hydrometer
> readings? Bear in mind that if the moon is pulling at our precious
> brew at the same force as the ocean, then our brew should be less
> dense right? If its less dense then our hydrometer will sink more,
> won't it? If so then we could be getting a false SG reading because
> the brew will appear a lower SG than it really is.
>
> Lets say it's a Full Moon at its perigee in Cairns - Australia on Dec
> 22nd 2003, (its also a high tide), and we take a Hydrometer reading at
> Sea Level with Pressure 1010mb - and it reads SG 0.992, then what will
> the SG read when the moon is at is apogee on Jan 3rd 2004, at sea
> level, with the same atmospheric pressure? Might it read higher?
>
> I can hear many say - WHO CARES? But the reality is this, with many
> wines I have measured the same SG but with noticably slight variations
> in sweetness when tasting - even though I am using the same juice and
> methodology for winemaking and the same hydrometer. Some might put it
> down to variations in the actual juice and differences in yeast colony
> count, etc...
>
> But could the relative local atmospheric pressure and Moon position
> influence the accuracy of my SG readings?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve!

I imagine the moon and sun do have an effect on gravity when it comes to
your hydrometer. Sure the wine is being pulled up making it less dense, but
at the same time the hydrometer itself is being pulled up, making it lighter
and more buoyant. The oceans combined is a very large body of water, so the
effects are easily noticed. The Great Lakes see tidal action too, but it's
minimal. Typical lakes don't see the effect since they are so small. A body
of water (or wine in this case) the size of your batch would be affected
only on a microscopic level. I'm not a scientist, but this sounds logical.

I live on the beach, on the beautiful BC coast. Is it better for me to rack
my wine at high tide or low tide?
Like to old wives tale about sauerkraut having to be made under a full moon,
should we be pitching our yeast during the waxing? The waning?
What would happen if you started a wine during an eclipse for goodness sake?
As I said, I'm NOT a scientist, LOL!



"OzWineKitz" > wrote in message
om...
> This is along the same lines as my previous post.
>
> Its a fact that the orbit of the moon varies up to say 5000km during a
> normal monthy (28day) orbit of the moon - right? The perigee and
> apogee, (vertical position in reference to the equator), also vary
> during a 27 day cycle.
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html
>
> Its also a fact that the Sun also has a gravitational influence on our
> liquids but it is 2 1/2 times less than the Moon.
>
> So if the moon can afect tides, by pulling water away from the earth
> due to gravitational influence, can it also affect our Hydrometer
> readings? Bear in mind that if the moon is pulling at our precious
> brew at the same force as the ocean, then our brew should be less
> dense right? If its less dense then our hydrometer will sink more,
> won't it? If so then we could be getting a false SG reading because
> the brew will appear a lower SG than it really is.
>
> Lets say it's a Full Moon at its perigee in Cairns - Australia on Dec
> 22nd 2003, (its also a high tide), and we take a Hydrometer reading at
> Sea Level with Pressure 1010mb - and it reads SG 0.992, then what will
> the SG read when the moon is at is apogee on Jan 3rd 2004, at sea
> level, with the same atmospheric pressure? Might it read higher?
>
> I can hear many say - WHO CARES? But the reality is this, with many
> wines I have measured the same SG but with noticably slight variations
> in sweetness when tasting - even though I am using the same juice and
> methodology for winemaking and the same hydrometer. Some might put it
> down to variations in the actual juice and differences in yeast colony
> count, etc...
>
> But could the relative local atmospheric pressure and Moon position
> influence the accuracy of my SG readings?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve!

Density is the same regardless of the effects of gravity

Rob L
"OzWineKitz" > wrote in message
om...
> This is along the same lines as my previous post.
>
> Its a fact that the orbit of the moon varies up to say 5000km during a
> normal monthy (28day) orbit of the moon - right? The perigee and
> apogee, (vertical position in reference to the equator), also vary
> during a 27 day cycle.
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html
>
> Its also a fact that the Sun also has a gravitational influence on our
> liquids but it is 2 1/2 times less than the Moon.
>
> So if the moon can afect tides, by pulling water away from the earth
> due to gravitational influence, can it also affect our Hydrometer
> readings? Bear in mind that if the moon is pulling at our precious
> brew at the same force as the ocean, then our brew should be less
> dense right? If its less dense then our hydrometer will sink more,
> won't it? If so then we could be getting a false SG reading because
> the brew will appear a lower SG than it really is.
>
> Lets say it's a Full Moon at its perigee in Cairns - Australia on Dec
> 22nd 2003, (its also a high tide), and we take a Hydrometer reading at
> Sea Level with Pressure 1010mb - and it reads SG 0.992, then what will
> the SG read when the moon is at is apogee on Jan 3rd 2004, at sea
> level, with the same atmospheric pressure? Might it read higher?
>
> I can hear many say - WHO CARES? But the reality is this, with many
> wines I have measured the same SG but with noticably slight variations
> in sweetness when tasting - even though I am using the same juice and
> methodology for winemaking and the same hydrometer. Some might put it
> down to variations in the actual juice and differences in yeast colony
> count, etc...
>
> But could the relative local atmospheric pressure and Moon position
> influence the accuracy of my SG readings?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve!

Ditto. I think when the moon starts affecting winemaking,
somebodys overthinking the fermentation situation & letting it get to
his imagination. Do ya get the corralation? Made a lotta really good
wine in my time & I don't even have a telescope. Good luck.

Just for the record, the oceans of the world cover approx 75%, the ice
at the poles cover approx 3%, and the land masses cover the other 21%.
The moon pulls on ALL things realiveto their weight in accordance with
basic physice which determines that the Force is proportional to the
weight and the distance squared. This is why the moon also contributes
to tectonic plate movement and earthquakes, because even the earth is
being pulled by the moon. But the weight of a Hydrometer is far less
than the weight of of the wine we are measuring. Therefore the
difference is exaggerated some 100+ times, isn't it?

The question remains,what is the difference? What difference does
atmospheric pressure impart to ones readings? Does alcohol behave
differently at lower SG than say wine? Does anyone know the actual
difference and percentages?

Thanks for your imput anyway.

Cheers,
Steve!

If this is truly of concern to you, I am sure you could apply "Solinar
Tables" to your calculations. They are the tables calculated from the sun
and the moon and maybe a bit of astrology, that predict when fish will bit.
They have been used for years by fishermen who need to explain why the fish
were not biting. Maybe you could determine when you should pitch your yeast
or pick the grapes or something.

;o)
Ray

The calendar I have right now has the "poor, good, and best" fishing days
shown on each day. The cycle of fishing rates coresponds to the cycles of
the moon. The poor days centre around the full moon, the best days centre
around the new moon. I think it's is based on the idea that fish will feed
at night under the full moon, but not in the dark under a new moon, thus
making your day of fishing better or not.

"Ray" > wrote in message
...
> If this is truly of concern to you, I am sure you could apply "Solinar
> Tables" to your calculations. They are the tables calculated from the sun
> and the moon and maybe a bit of astrology, that predict when fish will
bit.
> They have been used for years by fishermen who need to explain why the
fish
> were not biting. Maybe you could determine when you should pitch your
yeast
> or pick the grapes or something.
>
> ;o)
> Ray
>
>

You just completely ignored the previous poster's response...it
was completely correct that specific gravity is a measure of
DENSITY and density is NOT affected by gravity.

Density is defined a mass/volume

Weight is mass*gravity (f=ma, anyone?)

In your example the apparent gravity, g_a,
is equal to the gravity due to the earth, g_e,
minus the moon gravity due to the moon, g_m

g_a = g_e - g_m

The weight of the wine is g_a * mass(wine),
so yes, the weight of the wine changes (so
does the weight of the hydrometer). But buoyancy
does not depend on weight...the volume of both the
wine and the hydrometer AND the mass of both the
wine and hydrometer remain constant.

Thus no effect...end of physics lesson today.

IFbrewer







(OzWineKitz) wrote in message . com>...
> Just for the record, the oceans of the world cover approx 75%, the ice
> at the poles cover approx 3%, and the land masses cover the other 21%.
> The moon pulls on ALL things realiveto their weight in accordance with
> basic physice which determines that the Force is proportional to the
> weight and the distance squared. This is why the moon also contributes
> to tectonic plate movement and earthquakes, because even the earth is
> being pulled by the moon. But the weight of a Hydrometer is far less
> than the weight of of the wine we are measuring. Therefore the
> difference is exaggerated some 100+ times, isn't it?
>
> The question remains,what is the difference? What difference does
> atmospheric pressure impart to ones readings? Does alcohol behave
> differently at lower SG than say wine? Does anyone know the actual
> difference and percentages?
>
> Thanks for your imput anyway.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve!

Thanks, after the little tirade above, you've hit it right on the head!

Rob L

"Jeff French" > wrote in message
om...
> You just completely ignored the previous poster's response...it
> was completely correct that specific gravity is a measure of
> DENSITY and density is NOT affected by gravity.
>
> Density is defined a mass/volume
>
> Weight is mass*gravity (f=ma, anyone?)
>
> In your example the apparent gravity, g_a,
> is equal to the gravity due to the earth, g_e,
> minus the moon gravity due to the moon, g_m
>
> g_a = g_e - g_m
>
> The weight of the wine is g_a * mass(wine),
> so yes, the weight of the wine changes (so
> does the weight of the hydrometer). But buoyancy
> does not depend on weight...the volume of both the
> wine and the hydrometer AND the mass of both the
> wine and hydrometer remain constant.
>
> Thus no effect...end of physics lesson today.
>
> IFbrewer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (OzWineKitz) wrote in message
. com>...
> > Just for the record, the oceans of the world cover approx 75%, the ice
> > at the poles cover approx 3%, and the land masses cover the other 21%.
> > The moon pulls on ALL things realiveto their weight in accordance with
> > basic physice which determines that the Force is proportional to the
> > weight and the distance squared. This is why the moon also contributes
> > to tectonic plate movement and earthquakes, because even the earth is
> > being pulled by the moon. But the weight of a Hydrometer is far less
> > than the weight of of the wine we are measuring. Therefore the
> > difference is exaggerated some 100+ times, isn't it?
> >
> > The question remains,what is the difference? What difference does
> > atmospheric pressure impart to ones readings? Does alcohol behave
> > differently at lower SG than say wine? Does anyone know the actual
> > difference and percentages?
> >
> > Thanks for your imput anyway.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve!