I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".

I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
make this decision.

Thanks

Rob Woodard

On 12/26/03 3:38 AM, in article
, "Rob"
> wrote:

> I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
>
> I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> make this decision.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Woodard

Well - if you don't want it, throw it, but I usually let things sit for at
least two years before I consider throwing it away.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Rob,
I hope you'll sit tight and give everyone a chance to respond considering it
is the holidays. It is a tough decision to toss a batch. I've done it, but
it was only 1 gallon of a 2 gallon batch, I had waited almost 7 months, and
I had had problems with the batch from the beginning. It might help if you
tell us what the brand name of the wine kit is, what your starting and
ending SG was, when you started it or how old the wine is, and how many
times you racked it. I do not do wine kits. But I do know that wines
change a lot from the first month to 6 months to 1 year and beyond. There
also may be some fixes, others might suggest - hang in there.
Darlene

"Rob" > wrote in message
om...
> I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
>
> I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> make this decision.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Woodard

Don't worry, Darlene, I'm not rushing into anything, which is why I'm
asking for the advice. While I'm asking more for general information
and ancedotes from those who've made this decision in the past, for
those who want to help me in this specific case, the info's below.

I'm using juice sold in 6 gallon containers under the name "Home Wine,
inc." They're the same folks who make the Alexander Sun Country
concentrates, but they sell juice under that name at their home base a
relatively short distance from where I live. While there was no date
on the bucket, I did it with the expectation that the juice was very
fresh (2003), as it was right at the end of the harvest here. Started
fermentation on 10 Oct 03, racked on 15 Oct and 14 Nov. Started with
24 Brix, .70TA (3.5 pH), and last reading on SG was .99. I used
"Bordeaux Red" yeast, and had no obvious problems with fermentation -
in fact it was the best fermenting wine of the three I'm doing this
year (6 gallons of Sauv Blanc (I got this from the same company and at
the same time as the Merlot; it shows no similar sign of weakness) and
6 gallons of Zinfandel (purchased the grapes straight from a vinyard
on that).

BTW, last year I did a Mosto Italiano Riesling juice kit (they sell
sterile juice, and included in the package is yeast, clarifiers, etc.)
that about 2 months after fermentation I was questioning, but given
some time it came around and is now really nice - wish I had more now!
That seemed very different to me, though, as in the riesling's case
it started with a lot of flavor which wasn't particularly "yummy".
The Merlot that I'm asking about here seems more like colored, lightly
flavored water.

Thanks, everyone.
Rob



"Dar V" > wrote in message >...
> Rob,
> I hope you'll sit tight and give everyone a chance to respond considering it
> is the holidays. It is a tough decision to toss a batch. I've done it, but
> it was only 1 gallon of a 2 gallon batch, I had waited almost 7 months, and
> I had had problems with the batch from the beginning. It might help if you
> tell us what the brand name of the wine kit is, what your starting and
> ending SG was, when you started it or how old the wine is, and how many
> times you racked it. I do not do wine kits. But I do know that wines
> change a lot from the first month to 6 months to 1 year and beyond. There
> also may be some fixes, others might suggest - hang in there.
> Darlene
>
> "Rob" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> > garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> > racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> > Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> > wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
> >
> > I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> > before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> > giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> > make this decision.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rob Woodard

http://www.homebrew.com/wine_cellar/wineblog.shtml

(Rob) wrote in message . com>...
> I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
>
> I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> make this decision.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Woodard

Rob, you're gonna laugh but try adding one to two cans of
Welches red grape juice concentrate (which will add a slight
gapey-ness to the wine), or try two cans of the Welches white
concentrate (which is pretty neutral but will dilute the color
somewhat). Of coarse you'll want to let it age for a few months.

Good Luck!

Jim L.

Or you could try adding a few tablespoons full of dried elderberries. I did
that to a Cab Franc that was a tad light and entered in the State Fair wine
competition - guess what- I won a gold medal and best of show for red table
wine - home wine. The elderberries will give it some color and add a bit of
tannic bite.

--
Regards,
Rex Franklin
"jim l" > wrote in message
om...
> (Rob) wrote in message
. com>...
> > I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> > garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> > racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> > Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> > wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
> >
> > I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> > before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> > giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> > make this decision.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rob Woodard
>
> Rob, you're gonna laugh but try adding one to two cans of
> Welches red grape juice concentrate (which will add a slight
> gapey-ness to the wine), or try two cans of the Welches white
> concentrate (which is pretty neutral but will dilute the color
> somewhat). Of coarse you'll want to let it age for a few months.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Jim L.

Today, I tossed 12 gallons of a chambourcin that was made from grapes that I
picked in MD. At harvest time, the brix was only 18 (thanks to the soggy
summer here in Maryland), so I had to add sugar. The acidities were off the
wall, so I had to add calcium bicarbonate. After all of the adjustments, the
chemistries were OK, but the wine never did have any depth. After considering
the time involved in aging, repeated rackings, and bottling, and then realizing
that I NEVER serve a wine that I'm not proud of, it was a relief to pour it
out. At least I saved the expense of buying more carboys. If I learned
anything from this experience it's this: you can't make good wine out of bad
grapes.

Lee

Rob,

Were the #s you quoted your own measurements, or provided by the
retailer? If it was the latter, I wouldn't trust them because I've
heard just too many complaints from people doing their own
measurements on this type of product and finding them to be very
different (and their own measurements backing up the less-than-ideal
end results they get). From what I've heard, this type of product is
generally riskier and less consistent than kits from the bigger
producers like Brew King -- they do a good job of adjusting
acid/pH/sugar in producing the kits, although there are downsides to
those products too... I wouldn't consider doing the kind of product
you chose without being prepared (and equipped) to treat it like raw
must -- doing all the measurements/adjustments/blending that the raw
material will need.

One thing you may consider now is to buy a less expensive kit like one
of Brew King's Vintners Reserve series, diluting it to only 4 US
gallons or so instead of the full six, and then blending that with
your Merlot to get about 10 gallons total. You may want to blend at
least partially before fermenting again, since trying to ferment
something that concentrated may be too hard on the yeast and it may
not ferment all the sugars before becoming too alcoholic for the yeast
-- in any case be sure to use EC-1118 or Premier Cuvee yeast (most
likely this will come with the kit) because these have better alcohol
tolerance. It still won't be a stunning wine and still probably a bit
weak, but should be better. It's a bit of a gamble, but probably
worth it if you can't see yourself ever drinking the existing wine.

If it was me, I would probably try diluting the kit to 4 gallons, add
2 gallons of the weak Merlot, ferment dry and rack and bulk age until
good and clear, and then experiment with samples to see what the
optimial blend is between that batch and the remaining weak Merlot.
Lots of work, but lots of fun and learning too :-) You might even
want to try adding some bananas or raisins for added body...

If you're not too attached to true Merlot grape varietal flavours and
would be satisfied with just getting something tasty, then one thing
you might consider (along the lines of the elderberry suggestion) is
steeping some fruity herbal tea in the wine for a short time. This
year many of my reds from cheap central california fruit were somewhat
weak, and my wife happened to be drinking some Black Currant Bracer
(London Tea Co) one day which was incredibly fragrant and flavourful.
I really like black currant, so I decided to hang one of these teabags
in some of my Ruby Cabernet for a few hours (on it's own the wine was
quite weak in flavour but quite alcoholic and darkly colored). I'm
really happy with the results, although it definitely won't pass for a
central valley Ruby Cab anymore. If you try this, just be careful
because it's amazing how much flavour and aroma one little teabag has
-- or perhaps how little my wine had beforehand :-)

In any case, I wouldn't flush it unless it had some really horrible
defect. My first wine from grapes was a Pinot Noir from cheap cheap
Oregon grapes that turned out very very light and weakly flavoured. I
bottled it anyhow, and even shipped most of it back to Canada with me
when we moved. I'm glad I did, because 2 years of bottle aging later
the fruitiness, though still week, is much more prominent and it is
still very enjoyable when I'm in the right mood. It even has some
nice terroir to it. I just wish I had the vineyards we picked them
from -- I'm sure the owner could get some pretty good wine if he
thinned the crop properly (it looked like he was going for quantity
rather than quality).

Good Luck!

Richard

(Rob) wrote in message . com>...
> Don't worry, Darlene, I'm not rushing into anything, which is why I'm
> asking for the advice. While I'm asking more for general information
> and ancedotes from those who've made this decision in the past, for
> those who want to help me in this specific case, the info's below.
>
> I'm using juice sold in 6 gallon containers under the name "Home Wine,
> inc." They're the same folks who make the Alexander Sun Country
> concentrates, but they sell juice under that name at their home base a
> relatively short distance from where I live. While there was no date
> on the bucket, I did it with the expectation that the juice was very
> fresh (2003), as it was right at the end of the harvest here. Started
> fermentation on 10 Oct 03, racked on 15 Oct and 14 Nov. Started with
> 24 Brix, .70TA (3.5 pH), and last reading on SG was .99. I used
> "Bordeaux Red" yeast, and had no obvious problems with fermentation -
> in fact it was the best fermenting wine of the three I'm doing this
> year (6 gallons of Sauv Blanc (I got this from the same company and at
> the same time as the Merlot; it shows no similar sign of weakness) and
> 6 gallons of Zinfandel (purchased the grapes straight from a vinyard
> on that).
>
> BTW, last year I did a Mosto Italiano Riesling juice kit (they sell
> sterile juice, and included in the package is yeast, clarifiers, etc.)
> that about 2 months after fermentation I was questioning, but given
> some time it came around and is now really nice - wish I had more now!
> That seemed very different to me, though, as in the riesling's case
> it started with a lot of flavor which wasn't particularly "yummy".
> The Merlot that I'm asking about here seems more like colored, lightly
> flavored water.
>
> Thanks, everyone.
> Rob
>
>
>
> "Dar V" > wrote in message >...
> > Rob,
> > I hope you'll sit tight and give everyone a chance to respond considering it
> > is the holidays. It is a tough decision to toss a batch. I've done it, but
> > it was only 1 gallon of a 2 gallon batch, I had waited almost 7 months, and
> > I had had problems with the batch from the beginning. It might help if you
> > tell us what the brand name of the wine kit is, what your starting and
> > ending SG was, when you started it or how old the wine is, and how many
> > times you racked it. I do not do wine kits. But I do know that wines
> > change a lot from the first month to 6 months to 1 year and beyond. There
> > also may be some fixes, others might suggest - hang in there.
> > Darlene
> >
> > "Rob" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I've currently got 6 gallons of a Merlot juice kit "bulk" aging in my
> > > garage. When I first got the juice, and even moreso at it's last
> > > racking, it seems very weak, almost like it was greatly watered down.
> > > Very uninteresting. With about an ounce of lightly toasted oak, my
> > > wife has described it a "coffee flavored water".
> > >
> > > I'm tempted to give up on the wine and start something else, but
> > > before I do, I figured I'd ask here about anyone else's experience in
> > > giving up on a wine, and what does anyone else use as a criteria to
> > > make this decision.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Rob Woodard

(Richard Kovach) wrote in message . com>...
> Rob,
>
> Were the #s you quoted your own measurements, or provided by the
> retailer? If it was the latter, I wouldn't trust them because I've
> heard just too many complaints from people doing their own
> measurements on this type of product and finding them to be very
> different (and their own measurements backing up the less-than-ideal
> end results they get). From what I've heard, this type of product is
> generally riskier and less consistent than kits from the bigger
> producers like Brew King -- they do a good job of adjusting
> acid/pH/sugar in producing the kits, although there are downsides to
> those products too... I wouldn't consider doing the kind of product
> you chose without being prepared (and equipped) to treat it like raw
> must -- doing all the measurements/adjustments/blending that the raw
> material will need.

The measurements I listed were my own, and not quite in agreement with
the ones given by the vendor. I figured my measurements were right
for what I had in front of me. I did treat it like a fresh must, and
in actuality next time if I decide to skip the "squeeze the grapes
yourself" stage, I'll get unadjusted sterile juice and start from
there, like the Riesling I was discussing. That was kinda my intent
in the first place, and it was my own mistake to find that I had
purchased a manipulated must to begin with. Live and learn.

Thanks for the interesting ideas. They're greatly appreciated,
although my first thought is "good money after bad". But you've had
decent results in similar situations, so it's certainly worth
considering.

Happy new year.

Rob