Tonight I just pressed two gallons of pure raspberry juice from the 18 or so
pounds I had frozen from my bushes this summer.

I've read a number of recipes...and I guess I'd like some advice as to what
to do....

1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And if
so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would that
water it down too much?
3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to what I
have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?

I have the juice sitting in the garage in a closed bucket, so i'd love to
act on it quickly. The temperature is 40 degrees so it should hold for a
day or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! You guys
and gals are always a lot of help!!!

Sincerely, Rick Vanderwal
Fremont, Michigan

Rick Vanderwal wrote:

> 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?

Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as long
as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would recommend
you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.

> 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And if
> so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would that
> water it down too much?

When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration by
3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough to
give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
change the acid profile of the wine.

> 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to what I
> have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?

If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid wise)
and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
stress the balance issue though.

Ben
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm

I'm going to assume that the proper TA would be around .65 for a fruit
wine....

I do think I would like a larger volume of wine....
2 gallons for all those raspberries and all that work will only yield me 10
bottles, and if it turns our really good, I'd rather have 15 or 20 rather
than 10.... I once had some raspberry wine and it was HEAVENLY! Very
rich, balanced, strong raspberry flavour. This past summer I had some
raspberry wine and you could barely taste the raspberry....I definitely
would like to have it closer to the first one I tried and not the latter....
So I want to keep a strong flavoru concentration...

One thing I also did last night I forgot to write about....I took all the
pulp and seeds that I had extrated using the Victorio Strainer and the Berry
screen....so, absolutely no seeds in the juice... But I took the seeds and
leftover pulp, put it in a straining bag, and poured hot water over it,
extracting all the nice red colour and aroma from the remaining pulp. I'll
only leave it on there one day or so...so I don't pick up any strange
flavours from the seeds. So that might be another 1/2 gallon of
"juice"....not as strong as the extracted juice, but still pretty
flavourful.

Thanks for your ideas. Will still welcome other comments if there's
anything else to add by anyone. Thanks again.

Rick Vanderwal
"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Rick Vanderwal wrote:
>
> > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
>
> Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as long
> as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would recommend
> you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.
>
> > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And
if
> > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
that
> > water it down too much?
>
> When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration by
> 3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
> indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough to
> give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
> beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
> change the acid profile of the wine.
>
> > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to
what I
> > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
>
> If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid wise)
> and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
> stress the balance issue though.
>
> Ben
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm

Hi Rick

Style. It's all a matter of style. You can do any or all of the things
you mention, it's entirely up to you. Country musts have to be
"created", and how they are formulated depends entirely on the
desired outcome. Want a lite, delicate, dry table wine suitable
for serving with a fish or seafood dinner? You can do that. Want
an intense "Port" style with high alcohol, high sugar, high(er) acid,
bold tannins, and intense flavor? You can do that too. Want
something somewhere in between? Yup, go for it. But it is up to
you to decide !! It's the reason you get so many recipes and so
many differing opinions when you ask such a question. There
simply is no single "best" way.

In a recent post, Jack Keller listed 4 major components of balance.
With country wines, I would add a 5th. Intensity. Not just intensity
of flavor, but intensity of the finished wine as a whole. I don't want
a table wine to overpower the delicate flavors of a well prepared
meal, and I don't want to burn out the palates of my guests *before*
serving such a dinner by serving an overly intense wine. It is *after*
dinner that I might drag out the "knock them dead" Port style
dessert wine.

There is nothing stopping you from breaking down that juice and
using it to make all of these styles in little one gallon batches.

More an "approach" or philosophy to winemaking rather than
a direct answer to your question, but I hope it helps. HTMS


"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I'm going to assume that the proper TA would be around .65 for a fruit
> wine....
>
> I do think I would like a larger volume of wine....
> 2 gallons for all those raspberries and all that work will only yield me
10
> bottles, and if it turns our really good, I'd rather have 15 or 20 rather
> than 10.... I once had some raspberry wine and it was HEAVENLY! Very
> rich, balanced, strong raspberry flavour. This past summer I had some
> raspberry wine and you could barely taste the raspberry....I definitely
> would like to have it closer to the first one I tried and not the
latter....
> So I want to keep a strong flavoru concentration...
>
> One thing I also did last night I forgot to write about....I took all the
> pulp and seeds that I had extrated using the Victorio Strainer and the
Berry
> screen....so, absolutely no seeds in the juice... But I took the seeds
and
> leftover pulp, put it in a straining bag, and poured hot water over it,
> extracting all the nice red colour and aroma from the remaining pulp.
I'll
> only leave it on there one day or so...so I don't pick up any strange
> flavours from the seeds. So that might be another 1/2 gallon of
> "juice"....not as strong as the extracted juice, but still pretty
> flavourful.
>
> Thanks for your ideas. Will still welcome other comments if there's
> anything else to add by anyone. Thanks again.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> >
> > > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> >
> > Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as long
> > as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would recommend
> > you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.
> >
> > > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And
> if
> > > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> > > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
> that
> > > water it down too much?
> >
> > When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration by
> > 3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
> > indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough to
> > give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
> > beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
> > change the acid profile of the wine.
> >
> > > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to
> what I
> > > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
> >
> > If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid wise)
> > and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
> > stress the balance issue though.
> >
> > Ben
> > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm
>
>

Rick,
no, no, no, NO! In my experience, you don't need to pour hot water over
any raspbery must/pulp. This hot/boiling water thing is a pet peeve of
mine. For the most part, it is an ancient holdover from the days before Pot.
Metabisulphite. Cold water would have done just as well. Jack Keller
staunchly maintains that you need hot/boiling water on _some_ fruits to
"set" the color. That may be for a minority of fruits (into which Jack
Keller lumps raspberry). However, I found that this is not necessarily so
for raspberry as I have had successful color retention for up to two years.
Raspberry wine is Heavenly! And I second Ben Rotter's suggestion that
you do a non-diluted raspberry wine. You could add the water which you
poured over the remaining pulp. HOWEVER, I strongly suggest that you check
the TA and the pH of both your juice AND the water you poured over the pulp.
I've heard that a lot of acid can come off the seeds, but I would love to
see if this is true. I'd be especially interested if the is a difference in
pH......
I would stay away from adding any canned puree to a fresh fruit. Have
fun with your wine and let us know what happens.
Joanne

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I'm going to assume that the proper TA would be around .65 for a fruit
> wine....
>
> I do think I would like a larger volume of wine....
> 2 gallons for all those raspberries and all that work will only yield me
10
> bottles, and if it turns our really good, I'd rather have 15 or 20 rather
> than 10.... I once had some raspberry wine and it was HEAVENLY! Very
> rich, balanced, strong raspberry flavour. This past summer I had some
> raspberry wine and you could barely taste the raspberry....I definitely
> would like to have it closer to the first one I tried and not the
latter....
> So I want to keep a strong flavoru concentration...
>
> One thing I also did last night I forgot to write about....I took all the
> pulp and seeds that I had extrated using the Victorio Strainer and the
Berry
> screen....so, absolutely no seeds in the juice... But I took the seeds
and
> leftover pulp, put it in a straining bag, and poured hot water over it,
> extracting all the nice red colour and aroma from the remaining pulp.
I'll
> only leave it on there one day or so...so I don't pick up any strange
> flavours from the seeds. So that might be another 1/2 gallon of
> "juice"....not as strong as the extracted juice, but still pretty
> flavourful.
>
> Thanks for your ideas. Will still welcome other comments if there's
> anything else to add by anyone. Thanks again.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> >
> > > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> >
> > Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as long
> > as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would recommend
> > you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.
> >
> > > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And
> if
> > > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> > > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
> that
> > > water it down too much?
> >
> > When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration by
> > 3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
> > indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough to
> > give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
> > beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
> > change the acid profile of the wine.
> >
> > > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to
> what I
> > > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
> >
> > If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid wise)
> > and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
> > stress the balance issue though.
> >
> > Ben
> > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm
>
>

Rick:

I never made a raspberry wine, although I want to. Have made blackberry
wine though. I didn't have to deal with the tart aspect though. Check the
acid. Sometimes what I do is to add the sugar in water instead of in must.
That is, dissolve the added sugar in water and add that to the must. Some
people add water until the TA is adjusted instead of adding CaCO3. I too
advocate 100% juice wines but have deviated in the past. In the end it is
up to you, but you might want to play it safe and add some water (of course
keeping track of how much) and then next year you will know whether to add
more or less water. For apple and peach I never add water.

Good luck,
Arjay

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in
:

> Tonight I just pressed two gallons of pure raspberry juice from the 18
> or so pounds I had frozen from my bushes this summer.
>
> I've read a number of recipes...and I guess I'd like some advice as to
> what to do....
>
> 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And

Hi Joanne

With all due respect, I would like to offer some other points of
consideration when discussing the use of heat in winemaking.
About the only way to avoid having heat used at some point in
the process, is to make the wine from fresh fruit or "flash frozen"
fruit.

Consider: Anything that is canned uses heat during the process
for pasteurization, even though the label may not say so.
Consider: Many frozen things either say "pasteurized" on the label
or are in the form of concentrates.
Consider: The normal commercial process used to make concentrates
also uses heat. So anything made from concentrate, or anything
which says on the label that it has been "reconstituted from
concentrate", has had heat used on it at some point during processing.
Consider: Virtually all kits are made with juices that have been
pasteurized, condensed, or reconstituted from concentrate, which
means heat was used. They also have the tartaric acid removed
which places them in the "non-tartaric" class of wines ( but that
is another subject)
Consider: Commercial jams and jellies use heat during the process.

The list goes on, but the bottom line is that anyone that has ever
made wine from any of these things has been making (so called)
"hot process" wines. There is nothing *wrong* with such wines,
but yes, they are different from "fresh fruit" (cold process) wines,
and folks should be aware of the differences. I make both hot
and cold process wines using the same fruit, and each has it's
following among my friends.
HTMS (?) HTH


"jmreiter" > wrote in message
...
> Rick,
> no, no, no, NO! In my experience, you don't need to pour hot water over
> any raspbery must/pulp. This hot/boiling water thing is a pet peeve of
> mine. For the most part, it is an ancient holdover from the days before
Pot.
> Metabisulphite. Cold water would have done just as well. Jack Keller
> staunchly maintains that you need hot/boiling water on _some_ fruits to
> "set" the color. That may be for a minority of fruits (into which Jack
> Keller lumps raspberry). However, I found that this is not necessarily so
> for raspberry as I have had successful color retention for up to two
years.
> Raspberry wine is Heavenly! And I second Ben Rotter's suggestion that
> you do a non-diluted raspberry wine. You could add the water which you
> poured over the remaining pulp. HOWEVER, I strongly suggest that you check
> the TA and the pH of both your juice AND the water you poured over the
pulp.
> I've heard that a lot of acid can come off the seeds, but I would love to
> see if this is true. I'd be especially interested if the is a difference
in
> pH......
> I would stay away from adding any canned puree to a fresh fruit. Have
> fun with your wine and let us know what happens.
> Joanne
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm going to assume that the proper TA would be around .65 for a fruit
> > wine....
> >
> > I do think I would like a larger volume of wine....
> > 2 gallons for all those raspberries and all that work will only yield me
> 10
> > bottles, and if it turns our really good, I'd rather have 15 or 20
rather
> > than 10.... I once had some raspberry wine and it was HEAVENLY!
Very
> > rich, balanced, strong raspberry flavour. This past summer I had some
> > raspberry wine and you could barely taste the raspberry....I definitely
> > would like to have it closer to the first one I tried and not the
> latter....
> > So I want to keep a strong flavoru concentration...
> >
> > One thing I also did last night I forgot to write about....I took all
the
> > pulp and seeds that I had extrated using the Victorio Strainer and the
> Berry
> > screen....so, absolutely no seeds in the juice... But I took the seeds
> and
> > leftover pulp, put it in a straining bag, and poured hot water over it,
> > extracting all the nice red colour and aroma from the remaining pulp.
> I'll
> > only leave it on there one day or so...so I don't pick up any strange
> > flavours from the seeds. So that might be another 1/2 gallon of
> > "juice"....not as strong as the extracted juice, but still pretty
> > flavourful.
> >
> > Thanks for your ideas. Will still welcome other comments if there's
> > anything else to add by anyone. Thanks again.
> >
> > Rick Vanderwal
> > "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> > >
> > > > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> > >
> > > Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as long
> > > as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would recommend
> > > you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.
> > >
> > > > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine?
And
> > if
> > > > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double
the
> > > > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
> > that
> > > > water it down too much?
> > >
> > > When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration by
> > > 3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
> > > indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough to
> > > give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
> > > beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
> > > change the acid profile of the wine.
> > >
> > > > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it
to
> > what I
> > > > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful
wine?
> > >
> > > If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid wise)
> > > and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
> > > stress the balance issue though.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm
> >
> >
>
>

Frederick,

Aside from the puree Rick suggested he might use, we are talking about
cold processed fruit. Joanne is saying that when using fresh/flash
frozen fruit it isn't *neccessary* to heat the fruit. That's perfectly
true, and like her, I agree there is no need to heat raspberry must to
set the colour.

It's true that many potential sources of fruit for winemaking have had
some kind of treatment. There is a general opinion, however, that
these are generally inferior to the fresh version (of the same
original fruit quality). You could argue they are "just different",
but would you really prefer to drink reconstituted orange juice over
fresh orange juice? I think the answer in most cases would be no.

Of course, in the end it's up to the individual.

Ben

Hi Ben

Comments interspersed........

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
m...
> Frederick,
>
> Aside from the puree Rick suggested he might use, we are talking about
> cold processed fruit. Joanne is saying that when using fresh/flash
> frozen fruit it isn't *neccessary* to heat the fruit.

Oh, I agree absolutely that is isn't "necessary" to heat the fruit, but
it isn't necessarily *bad* to do it that way either.

> That's perfectly
> true, and like her, I agree there is no need to heat raspberry must to
> set the colour.

I know little about the use of heat to "set" colors so I can't really
comment on this.

>
> It's true that many potential sources of fruit for winemaking have had
> some kind of treatment. There is a general opinion, however, that
> these are generally inferior to the fresh version (of the same
> original fruit quality).

But don't you see, it is with this "general opinion" that I so strongly
disagree. Each wine has to stand on it's own merit. Period. The
fact that the resulting wines may be different has little to do with
whether an individual will choose one over the other as his "preferred"
style.

> You could argue they are "just different",

<snip>

Yes, I *do* argue that they are "just different". To support this, I
would point to Jack Keller's site. Jack lists the wines that have won
prizes in various competitions. Even a brief survey of these wines
and their recipes will show that some of them were "hot process",
others were "cold process", and yet others were made from bases
that had heat used at some point during the processing of the base
materials. It must surely be assumed that these wines were in
competition with at least some "cold process" wines, and yet were
judged better that the others. IOW - they were judged on their
merit rather than the "process" or materials from which they were
made.

<snip>

> Of course, in the end it's up to the individual.

That's exactly my point.
HTMS

PS - I sincerely hope that my comments are accepted in the spirit
with which they are offered. Namely, that I am only trying to be
helpful here by presenting an alternative point of view.

Best regards and happy new year to everyone !!

Frederick

>
> Ben

thanks everyone for your comments and your input.
I really appreciate them all!
I wish you all a very happy new year!

Well, I went back and forth, back and forth....
pure juice wine, or dilute, pure, dilute, pure, dilute....

I finally decided....I wanted more of the volume this year...
And see how it turns out.
Then, next year, I can do it differently, and just go with the pure juice...
I guess that's the beauty of it, as one of you said....
there's no perfect recipe, you can create your own, and try it in different
ways,

So, I took the pure juice, and also the water in which the seeds and
leftover pulp had sat in for two days,
and ended up with about 3 gallons of juice.
I added one more gallon, to get four, and added sugar to get a reading of
1.090....
Added yeast nutrient, energizer, a bit of tannin, and....
now the yeast.

So, now I wait...and see how it all goes.

Thanks again.

Rick



"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> Tonight I just pressed two gallons of pure raspberry juice from the 18 or
so
> pounds I had frozen from my bushes this summer.
>
> I've read a number of recipes...and I guess I'd like some advice as to
what
> to do....
>
> 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And if
> so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would that
> water it down too much?
> 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to what
I
> have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
>
> I have the juice sitting in the garage in a closed bucket, so i'd love to
> act on it quickly. The temperature is 40 degrees so it should hold for a
> day or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! You guys
> and gals are always a lot of help!!!
>
> Sincerely, Rick Vanderwal
> Fremont, Michigan
>
>
>

Hi Fred,
I like your point. And you do make another very good case, not to mix
fresh fruit with canned/processed fruit. I agree, there is nothing _wrong_
with using a canned puree to make wine.
Happy Winemaking,
Joanne
"frederick ploegman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Joanne
>
> With all due respect, I would like to offer some other points of
> consideration when discussing the use of heat in winemaking.
> About the only way to avoid having heat used at some point in
> the process, is to make the wine from fresh fruit or "flash frozen"
> fruit.
>
> Consider: Anything that is canned uses heat during the process
> for pasteurization, even though the label may not say so.
> Consider: Many frozen things either say "pasteurized" on the label
> or are in the form of concentrates.
> Consider: The normal commercial process used to make concentrates
> also uses heat. So anything made from concentrate, or anything
> which says on the label that it has been "reconstituted from
> concentrate", has had heat used on it at some point during processing.
> Consider: Virtually all kits are made with juices that have been
> pasteurized, condensed, or reconstituted from concentrate, which
> means heat was used. They also have the tartaric acid removed
> which places them in the "non-tartaric" class of wines ( but that
> is another subject)
> Consider: Commercial jams and jellies use heat during the process.
>
> The list goes on, but the bottom line is that anyone that has ever
> made wine from any of these things has been making (so called)
> "hot process" wines. There is nothing *wrong* with such wines,
> but yes, they are different from "fresh fruit" (cold process) wines,
> and folks should be aware of the differences. I make both hot
> and cold process wines using the same fruit, and each has it's
> following among my friends.
> HTMS (?) HTH
>
>
> "jmreiter" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Rick,
> > no, no, no, NO! In my experience, you don't need to pour hot water
over
> > any raspbery must/pulp. This hot/boiling water thing is a pet peeve of
> > mine. For the most part, it is an ancient holdover from the days before
> Pot.
> > Metabisulphite. Cold water would have done just as well. Jack Keller
> > staunchly maintains that you need hot/boiling water on _some_ fruits to
> > "set" the color. That may be for a minority of fruits (into which Jack
> > Keller lumps raspberry). However, I found that this is not necessarily
so
> > for raspberry as I have had successful color retention for up to two
> years.
> > Raspberry wine is Heavenly! And I second Ben Rotter's suggestion
that
> > you do a non-diluted raspberry wine. You could add the water which you
> > poured over the remaining pulp. HOWEVER, I strongly suggest that you
check
> > the TA and the pH of both your juice AND the water you poured over the
> pulp.
> > I've heard that a lot of acid can come off the seeds, but I would love
to
> > see if this is true. I'd be especially interested if the is a difference
> in
> > pH......
> > I would stay away from adding any canned puree to a fresh fruit.
Have
> > fun with your wine and let us know what happens.
> > Joanne
> >
> > "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm going to assume that the proper TA would be around .65 for a fruit
> > > wine....
> > >
> > > I do think I would like a larger volume of wine....
> > > 2 gallons for all those raspberries and all that work will only yield
me
> > 10
> > > bottles, and if it turns our really good, I'd rather have 15 or 20
> rather
> > > than 10.... I once had some raspberry wine and it was HEAVENLY!
> Very
> > > rich, balanced, strong raspberry flavour. This past summer I had some
> > > raspberry wine and you could barely taste the raspberry....I
definitely
> > > would like to have it closer to the first one I tried and not the
> > latter....
> > > So I want to keep a strong flavoru concentration...
> > >
> > > One thing I also did last night I forgot to write about....I took all
> the
> > > pulp and seeds that I had extrated using the Victorio Strainer and the
> > Berry
> > > screen....so, absolutely no seeds in the juice... But I took the
seeds
> > and
> > > leftover pulp, put it in a straining bag, and poured hot water over
it,
> > > extracting all the nice red colour and aroma from the remaining pulp.
> > I'll
> > > only leave it on there one day or so...so I don't pick up any strange
> > > flavours from the seeds. So that might be another 1/2 gallon of
> > > "juice"....not as strong as the extracted juice, but still pretty
> > > flavourful.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your ideas. Will still welcome other comments if there's
> > > anything else to add by anyone. Thanks again.
> > >
> > > Rick Vanderwal
> > > "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> > > >
> > > > Being an advocate of 100% juice wines I'd say go for it! But *as
long
> > > > as* you can produce a balanced wine from that juice. I would
recommend
> > > > you check your TA and reduce with carbonate if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine?
> And
> > > if
> > > > > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double
> the
> > > > > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But
would
> > > that
> > > > > water it down too much?
> > > >
> > > > When raspberry wine is diluted, it's often reduced in concentration
by
> > > > 3-5 times. If you are diluting for balance reasons alone, as you
> > > > indicate: I'd again suggest you check the TA and dilute only enough
to
> > > > give a reasonable TA, but no further. There is no point in diluting
> > > > beyond that and then having to add acid blend, unless your aim is to
> > > > change the acid profile of the wine.
> > > >
> > > > > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it
> to
> > > what I
> > > > > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful
> wine?
> > > >
> > > > If you are happy with the quality of the puree (flavour and acid
wise)
> > > > and you can gain considerable volume from it, why not. Again I'd
> > > > stress the balance issue though.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

What is the pH?????

Rick,
let me give you one very serious piece of advice on raspberry wine; you
ned to know the pH! Tartness does not necessarily come fom the TA of the
fruit or the seeds. It's the pH of the fruit that accounts for the "pucker
factor" of raspberry wine. If you don't have one, or the wife didn't buy you
one for Christmas, get thyself a pH meeter and take a reading ASAP!!!!! You
may have to correct for the pH so your lips don't pucker all the way to the
back of your head.
Joanne

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> thanks everyone for your comments and your input.
> I really appreciate them all!
> I wish you all a very happy new year!
>
> Well, I went back and forth, back and forth....
> pure juice wine, or dilute, pure, dilute, pure, dilute....
>
> I finally decided....I wanted more of the volume this year...
> And see how it turns out.
> Then, next year, I can do it differently, and just go with the pure
juice...
> I guess that's the beauty of it, as one of you said....
> there's no perfect recipe, you can create your own, and try it in
different
> ways,
>
> So, I took the pure juice, and also the water in which the seeds and
> leftover pulp had sat in for two days,
> and ended up with about 3 gallons of juice.
> I added one more gallon, to get four, and added sugar to get a reading of
> 1.090....
> Added yeast nutrient, energizer, a bit of tannin, and....
> now the yeast.
>
> So, now I wait...and see how it all goes.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tonight I just pressed two gallons of pure raspberry juice from the 18
or
> so
> > pounds I had frozen from my bushes this summer.
> >
> > I've read a number of recipes...and I guess I'd like some advice as to
> what
> > to do....
> >
> > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And
if
> > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
that
> > water it down too much?
> > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to
what
> I
> > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
> >
> > I have the juice sitting in the garage in a closed bucket, so i'd love
to
> > act on it quickly. The temperature is 40 degrees so it should hold for
a
> > day or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! You
guys
> > and gals are always a lot of help!!!
> >
> > Sincerely, Rick Vanderwal
> > Fremont, Michigan
> >
> >
> >
>
>

that I don't know...
I did check acid level....it's about 7.5
so I'll probably have to get some calcium carbonate...
but ph? I haven't done that before.
a ph meter? next time I go to my wine store, I'll have to look for one.
Unfortunately, I live an hour away from it.

what does adjusting ph involve?
Rick


"jmreiter" > wrote in message
...
> What is the pH?????
>
> Rick,
> let me give you one very serious piece of advice on raspberry wine; you
> ned to know the pH! Tartness does not necessarily come fom the TA of the
> fruit or the seeds. It's the pH of the fruit that accounts for the "pucker
> factor" of raspberry wine. If you don't have one, or the wife didn't buy
you
> one for Christmas, get thyself a pH meeter and take a reading ASAP!!!!!
You
> may have to correct for the pH so your lips don't pucker all the way to
the
> back of your head.
> Joanne
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > thanks everyone for your comments and your input.
> > I really appreciate them all!
> > I wish you all a very happy new year!
> >
> > Well, I went back and forth, back and forth....
> > pure juice wine, or dilute, pure, dilute, pure, dilute....
> >
> > I finally decided....I wanted more of the volume this year...
> > And see how it turns out.
> > Then, next year, I can do it differently, and just go with the pure
> juice...
> > I guess that's the beauty of it, as one of you said....
> > there's no perfect recipe, you can create your own, and try it in
> different
> > ways,
> >
> > So, I took the pure juice, and also the water in which the seeds and
> > leftover pulp had sat in for two days,
> > and ended up with about 3 gallons of juice.
> > I added one more gallon, to get four, and added sugar to get a reading
of
> > 1.090....
> > Added yeast nutrient, energizer, a bit of tannin, and....
> > now the yeast.
> >
> > So, now I wait...and see how it all goes.
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Tonight I just pressed two gallons of pure raspberry juice from the 18
> or
> > so
> > > pounds I had frozen from my bushes this summer.
> > >
> > > I've read a number of recipes...and I guess I'd like some advice as to
> > what
> > > to do....
> > >
> > > 1. Use the two gallons to make two gallons of really rich wine?
> > > 2. Dilute it to make a larger quanitity, but less acidic wine? And
> if
> > > so, how much water should I add for dilution? Could I add double the
> > > water, to bring the total to four gallons? or even five? But would
> that
> > > water it down too much?
> > > 3. Buy a can of Oregon pure seedless raspberry puree and add it to
> what
> > I
> > > have and bring the total to five gallons for lots of flavourful wine?
> > >
> > > I have the juice sitting in the garage in a closed bucket, so i'd love
> to
> > > act on it quickly. The temperature is 40 degrees so it should hold
for
> a
> > > day or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! You
> guys
> > > and gals are always a lot of help!!!
> > >
> > > Sincerely, Rick Vanderwal
> > > Fremont, Michigan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

p.s. . . .
i've been doing home winemaking for about 2-3 years now...
and still feel like such a newbie!
normally, have just been following recipes, and going by taste,
adjustements, etc..., but haven't been so technical...yet.
So things like meausring acid and ph are relatively new to me.

Rick

ok, I got some ph strips....and I've read that they're not the most accurate
in winemaking...but it's all i have right now.

Under the faucet, the ph strips immediately turn green, showing tapwater to
have a higher ph than my raspberry must, which looks like it's below 3.0...
I'm going to see if I can drum up a ph meter somewhere to get a more
accurate reading. At this stage, and please let me know if I'm right, the
best course of action is probably to let it ferment, then to cold stabilize
to see if any tartaric crystals form, thus reducing acid and raising ph.
Else I could use potassium carbonate...and try to reduce the acid as well,
which I think is higher than I first thought...

During fermentation is probably not the best time to do it, right?

Anyway, thanks again for your earlier comments, interesting discussion.

Rick Vanderwal
Fremont, MI>

Yup,
raspberry will most definitely be in the low to mid 2.0's. Making it pucker
material, extraoridunaire. Get thyself some potassium carbonate to adjust pH
upwards, in addition it will help your acidity to go down. According to
Iverson's Home Winemaking Step by Step, you should not reduce the acidity
using Pot. Carbonate by more than .3 to .4 . Go to your local winemaking
supply dealer and get yourself a pH meter AND some Pot. Carbonate. Your
dealer may try to sell you Pot. Bicarbonate instead. Get the regular
carbonate. If he/she doesn't have it on hand, have them order it for you or
find it online somehwere.
Also, according to Iverson;
1 tsp.Pot Carbonate = 6.0 g
3.8g will reduce acid by 0 .1 (and raise your pH in the process)
You will also want to cold chill this wine so that potassium bitatrate
will precipitate out of suspension.
Joanne

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> ok, I got some ph strips....and I've read that they're not the most
accurate
> in winemaking...but it's all i have right now.
>
> Under the faucet, the ph strips immediately turn green, showing tapwater
to
> have a higher ph than my raspberry must, which looks like it's below
3.0...
> I'm going to see if I can drum up a ph meter somewhere to get a more
> accurate reading. At this stage, and please let me know if I'm right, the
> best course of action is probably to let it ferment, then to cold
stabilize
> to see if any tartaric crystals form, thus reducing acid and raising ph.
> Else I could use potassium carbonate...and try to reduce the acid as well,
> which I think is higher than I first thought...
>
> During fermentation is probably not the best time to do it, right?
>
> Anyway, thanks again for your earlier comments, interesting discussion.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> Fremont, MI>
>
>

Rick,

> accurate reading. At this stage, and please let me know if I'm right, the
> best course of action is probably to let it ferment, then to cold stabilize
> to see if any tartaric crystals form, thus reducing acid and raising ph.
> Else I could use potassium carbonate...and try to reduce the acid as well,
> which I think is higher than I first thought...

Unless you used acid blend (with some tartaric acid in) you're not
going to get significant tartrate crystal formation (since raspberries
don't contain much/any tartaric acid). You'll also get a TA increase
(pH decrease) from fermentation. I'd recommend you deacidify
(potassium carbonate for e.g.) post fermentation if you really need to
(taste the wine and see).

Ben

Improved Winemaking
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

Rick,
I would strongly consider(and have) using Welches White Grape/Raspberry
juice instead of plain water to increase volume.

Jeff

Rick,
I would concur with these folks, if you want to increase your vinosity of
your raspberry wine. If you are going the dilute route then at least add
some white grape juice to add some body. BUT, you STILL need to get a pH
meter......
Joanne

"Jeff & Victoria" > wrote in message
...
> Rick,
> I would strongly consider(and have) using Welches White Grape/Raspberry
> juice instead of plain water to increase volume.
>
> Jeff
>