Watched a cooking show last night were the chef used a red wine lees
to marinate some fowl and then also used it during the cooking
process. This was the first time I have seen this and I really enjoy
my cooking, have any of the home wine makers here ever try this?
What other uses have I been missing out on?

Thanks,
Andy

"Andy" > wrote in message
...
> Watched a cooking show last night were the chef used a red wine lees
> to marinate some fowl and then also used it during the cooking
> process. This was the first time I have seen this and I really enjoy
> my cooking, have any of the home wine makers here ever try this?
> What other uses have I been missing out on?

I'd guess that those were strictly speaking not "lees". More likely it was
"dregs" from decanting a bottle of wine that had thrown some sediment during
aging. Where would a chef get actual lees?

Tom S

Nope... he means wine lees and it is used in cooking.

Wine lees is actually a popular (albeit rare to the common folk)
ingredient in cooking. Its use is reserved primarily for gourmet
dishes as it's an exotic inclusion to a recipe.

I was in a restaurant in New York last year that served fruit
dumplings with wine lees in a light sauce. There are cookbooks out
there that incorporate lees in recipes. It's popular in Asian recipes
and used in Chinese stir fry... fried chicken pieces in red wine lees
is delicious! I've seen it used in place of a brine for ham or other
types of meat or fish.

There's a worldwide market for wine lees and Argol. Argol is the
concretion that forms in wine vats during the fermentation of grape
must. They are traded commodities. Agents import and export lees in
either powder or granular form, or in irregular fragments. Argol
comes as a grayish-yellow or redish-brown crystal. Both wine lees and
Argol are crude potassium hydrogen tartrates containing mostly calcium
tartrate.

Wine lees is used in food preparation whereas Argol is used as a
mordant in dyeing.

And all this time Tom could have been making money on all that
lees he's been dumping down the drain. :-)

For those adventurous winemakers who would like to try using your
lees in cooking, I don't know how it's processed. Anyone know? I
would assume you'd dry it out and grind it up. It's usually used as a
paste but it has lots of other uses. I don't think you can buy wine
lees paste in the US.

Here's an interesting article about a group of chefs at Maui
Community College who started a business by taking a winemaker's waste
and making jelly!

http://www.hawaiibusiness.cc/hb12004...m?articleid=28

If you do manage to make a paste out of it, I've included a recipe
you can try. Let us know how it turns out!

Bona petit!

-Paul

Stir Fried Pork Slices In Wine Sauce
Yield: 4 Servings
Preparation Time: 0045


1 ts Red rice vinegar
2 tb Medium sherry
3/4 c Stock
Cornstarch paste
1 1/2 lb Boned pork butt
3 tb Peanut oil
3 Cloves garlic, minced
2 Egg yolks
1 ts Water
1 c Fine plain bread crumbs
4 c Oil for deep-frying

PASTE (if wine lees paste is unavailable):
2 tb Cooked rice
1/2 ts Sugar
1 ts Dry baker's yeast
2 tb Dark soy sauce
2 tb Warm water
1 ts Wet bean cheese (opt)

Prepare Paste: Use mortar and pestle to pulverize cooked rice. Combine
with sugar, yeast, soy and warm water. Let stand in warm place for 30
minutes to activate yeast. Authentic wine lees paste is not available
in the U.S. to our knowledge, this is the best substitute we have
found. You can add wet bean cheese for a sharper flavor.

Braise Pork: Slice pork butt across the grain into strips, 1' by 3' by
1/2' thick. Heat peanut oil in wok until it begins to smoke. Add some
of pork to hot oil; stir-fry pieces until they lose their pinkness;
repeat in batches until all pork is browned. Next, add garlic to wok;
stir briefly.
Pour in wine lees paste, rice vinegar, sherry and stock; bring to slow
boil; add pork slices. Reduce heat, cover, and simmer for 30 minutes.

Remove pork, without sauce, to large platter. Cool pork. Cooling is
essential so that it will deep-fry properly. Reserve sauce in small
pan.
You can hold pork for several hours, if you wish to braise it in
advance.

Deep-fry Pork: Heat deep-frying oil in wok. While oil is heating, beat
egg yolks with water; set out bread crumbs on platter. Dip pork pieces
in egg mixture, then bread crumbs, to thoroughly cover.

When oil is at deep-frying temperature, 375 degrees, slip in a slice
of pork as a test: pork should lightly brown in about 1 minute. Place
6 pork slices on Chinese strainer, and lower into oil, strainer and
all. Check in 2 minutes (browning should take slightly longer than
test because strainer cools the oil). If you prefer to fry in larger
batches, use more oil.
Remove fried pork to warm platter, uncovered.

Finish: Reheat sauce, and pour over pork just before serving.


"Tom S" > wrote in message m>...
> "Andy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Watched a cooking show last night were the chef used a red wine lees
> > to marinate some fowl and then also used it during the cooking
> > process. This was the first time I have seen this and I really enjoy
> > my cooking, have any of the home wine makers here ever try this?
> > What other uses have I been missing out on?
>
> I'd guess that those were strictly speaking not "lees". More likely it was
> "dregs" from decanting a bottle of wine that had thrown some sediment during
> aging. Where would a chef get actual lees?
>
> Tom S

"Paul S. Remington" > wrote in message
om...
> And all this time Tom could have been making money on all that
> lees he's been dumping down the drain. :-)

Actually, I have about 15 gallons of well oaked Chardonnay lees on hand
right now. Make me an offer?

Tom S

Andy wrote:

> What other uses have I been missing out on?

Marmite is basically beer lees... or so it seems from the description of
this great stuff. <http://www.marmite.com/marmite/about.html>

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Wow... 15 gallons is a lot! Why not throw a gallon up for bid on
eBay. Chefs chomp at the bit to get there hands on the stuff. But,
you'd have to process it first and I have no clue how that's done.
Also, being a consumable food product, there may be laws against it.
Also, trade issues with shipping overseas.

Too complicated... on second though, forget it!

Since I love cooking, I'd be curious to find out how I could use
my lees for cooking, then see what results I get. I have a good year
before I rack-off my lees, and when I do it'll be polluted with
Bentonite and Isinglass, which renders it unusable. I'd try it, if I
could.

I'll give ya' $5 for a quart, plus shipping... hows that? :-)

-Paul

"Tom S" > wrote in message m>...
> "Paul S. Remington" > wrote in message
> om...
> > And all this time Tom could have been making money on all that
> > lees he's been dumping down the drain. :-)
>
> Actually, I have about 15 gallons of well oaked Chardonnay lees on hand
> right now. Make me an offer?
>
> Tom S

Is that the stuff that is Australia's answer to peanut butter? If so I have
tasted it. Thanks but no thanks. It must be an acquired taste.

Ray

"Charles H" > wrote in message
...
> Andy wrote:
>
> > What other uses have I been missing out on?
>
> Marmite is basically beer lees... or so it seems from the description of
> this great stuff. <http://www.marmite.com/marmite/about.html>
>
> --
> charles
>
> "Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
> forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
> - W.C. Fields

Ray wrote:

> Is that the stuff that is Australia's answer to peanut butter? If so I have
> tasted it. Thanks but no thanks. It must be an acquired taste.

A full blooded Aussie would be insulted to hear that, Marmite was
invented in England, and is popular there. The Ozzies seem to perfer
Vegemite over Marmite though. If you spread it like peanut butter you're
in for a shock, but a thin coating is all that is needed.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Andy, I have avoided this thread up to now because the title is just
too "out there" for me, but curiosity finally sucked me into it.
Rather interesting. I know nothing about cooking with lees as of this
moment, but intend to find out more.

As for other uses for lees, I dump them on my wife's roses and they
seem to love them. I used to worry about the residual alcohol doing
harm to the roses, but there has never been any substantive basis for
that early anxiety. The roses really thrive on the lees.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Serious question he
what is the difference between vegemite and marmite? I have only ever tasted
the latter.

John

The Ozzies seem to perfer
>Vegemite over Marmite though. If you spread it like peanut butter you're
>in for a shock, but a thin coating is all that is needed.
>
>--
>charles
>
>"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
>forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
>- W.C. Fields

"Jack Keller" > wrote in message
om...
> As for other uses for lees, I dump them on my wife's roses and they
> seem to love them. I used to worry about the residual alcohol doing
> harm to the roses, but there has never been any substantive basis for
> that early anxiety. The roses really thrive on the lees.

My sister lives on a dairy farm. The cows are fed grain, hay, silage (leafy
greens that are ML fermented like sauerkraut) and lees from the Anchor Steam
Brewery! Talk about contented cows... :^)

Tom S

Now Tom that sounds like such a good idea.
Why did we in UK ever contribute to CJD, scrappie, mad cow disease, by
feeding animals semi processed dead animal offal. I can see a simple (
perhaps overly simple ) reasoning in feeding cattle with wine lees
Is it in fact done in the heavy wine making areas? France, Italy --und so
weiter ( and so on ) It surely must be -- although I cannot say that I have
ever researched the subject! I expect that it is used as a very substantial
"manure" --- but the thought of feeding it to cattle seems so sensible. A
natural product that is already partially digested!

I am sure that some erudite farmer will tell me why I am wrong. But it has
got to be better than processed cows hasn't it!


--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Tom S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jack Keller" > wrote in message
> om...
> > As for other uses for lees, I dump them on my wife's roses and they
> > seem to love them. I used to worry about the residual alcohol doing
> > harm to the roses, but there has never been any substantive basis for
> > that early anxiety. The roses really thrive on the lees.
>
> My sister lives on a dairy farm. The cows are fed grain, hay, silage
(leafy
> greens that are ML fermented like sauerkraut) and lees from the Anchor
Steam
> Brewery! Talk about contented cows... :^)
>
> Tom S
>
>

John D. Misrahi wrote:

> Serious question he
> what is the difference between vegemite and marmite? I have only ever tasted
> the latter.

Basically, Marmite is a yeast and vegetable extract and Vegemite is a
yeast and malt extract with caramel added. They are pretty different
in flavour, and it is true has Marmite has a stonger flavour. Vegemite
has a better flavour IMO, but then I'm Australian so I would say that
:-)

On the original topic, I'd add that wine lees is also sometimes used
in cheesemaking to form a skin/crust around certain cheeses and
lending a particular flavour.

Ben

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
m...
> John D. Misrahi wrote:
>
> > Serious question he
> > what is the difference between vegemite and marmite? I have only ever
tasted
> > the latter.
>
> Basically, Marmite is a yeast and vegetable extract and Vegemite is a
> yeast and malt extract with caramel added. They are pretty different
> in flavour, and it is true has Marmite has a stonger flavour. Vegemite
> has a better flavour IMO, but then I'm Australian so I would say that
> :-)


I tried Vegemite while skiing in New Zealand some years back. I didn't care
for it at all but I'm an American and never had a chance to acquire a taste
for it.

I seem to recall a song by an Australian New Wave band back in the 1980's
that had the line, "He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich." Was
that "Land Down Under" by the Knack?

pli

Pavel314 ) wrote:

>"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
>> John D. Misrahi wrote:
>>
>> > Serious question he
>> > what is the difference between vegemite and marmite? I have only ever
>tasted
>> > the latter.
>>
>> Basically, Marmite is a yeast and vegetable extract and Vegemite is a
>> yeast and malt extract with caramel added. They are pretty different
>> in flavour, and it is true has Marmite has a stonger flavour. Vegemite
>> has a better flavour IMO, but then I'm Australian so I would say that
>> :-)


>I tried Vegemite while skiing in New Zealand some years back. I didn't care
>for it at all but I'm an American and never had a chance to acquire a taste
>for it.

>I seem to recall a song by an Australian New Wave band back in the 1980's
>that had the line, "He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich." Was
>that "Land Down Under" by the Knack?

>pli

Men With Hats, I think. Not the Knack.

Maybe Men *Without* Hats?

80's music. Shudder.

Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:10:42 -0500, "Pavel314" wrote:

>I seem to recall a song by an Australian New Wave band back in the 1980's
>that had the line, "He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich." Was
>that "Land Down Under" by the Knack?

Men At Work.

"I come from a land down under, where beer does flow and men chunder"

cheers,
Ross.
--
Ross McKay, WebAware Pty Ltd
"The lawn could stand another mowing; funny, I don't even care"
- Elvis Costello

b> >I seem to recall a song by an Australian New Wave band back in the 1980's
> >that had the line, "He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich." Was
> >that "Land Down Under" by the Knack?
>
> >pli
>
> Men With Hats, I think. Not the Knack.
>
> Maybe Men *Without* Hats?
>
> 80's music. Shudder.

Men at Work

Chad
Wine Logging Software - http://www.chadandtrish.com/winelog

(David C Breeden) wrote in message >...
> > Serious question he
> >I seem to recall a song by an Australian New Wave band back in the 1980's
> >that had the line, "He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich." Was
> >that "Land Down Under" by the Knack?
>
>
> Men With Hats, I think. Not the Knack.
>
> Maybe Men *Without* Hats?
>
> 80's music. Shudder.
>

Sounds like Men at Work's "Down Under"

Andy