This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is possible to
essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time it
takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those steps
in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if one
wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and how?

Thanks.

--
Colonel Blip

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"Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
...
> This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is possible
to
> essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
> opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time it
> takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those
steps
> in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if one
> wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and
how?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Colonel Blip

A couple of possibilities come to mind. You could filter the juice with a
tight membrane filter and remove all of the native yeast and bacteria. This
method requires special equipment and a course filtration will be needed
before the membrane filter could be used.

Or, you could pasteurize the bottled juice just before sealing the bottles.
A temperature of 160 - 170 F for two or three minutes might kill the native
yeast and bacteria. This method requires special heating equipment and the
juice must be mixed in some way to maintain a uniform temperature.

Of course, you could always freeze the juice.

Irradiation will probably do it you have the facilities and nerve

--
Regards,
Rex Franklin
"Lum" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is
possible
> to
> > essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
> > opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time
it
> > takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those
> steps
> > in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if
one
> > wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and
> how?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Colonel Blip
>
> A couple of possibilities come to mind. You could filter the juice with a
> tight membrane filter and remove all of the native yeast and bacteria.
This
> method requires special equipment and a course filtration will be needed
> before the membrane filter could be used.
>
> Or, you could pasteurize the bottled juice just before sealing the
bottles.
> A temperature of 160 - 170 F for two or three minutes might kill the
native
> yeast and bacteria. This method requires special heating equipment and
the
> juice must be mixed in some way to maintain a uniform temperature.
>
> Of course, you could always freeze the juice.
>
>
>

I have read where it is possible to boil the grape must to make something
akin to molasses and seal it (I suppose one could add something like
potassium metabisulfite as well) and, since no yeast is added, could prevent
fermentation. Is this true?

"Rex Franklin" > wrote in message
m
>> Irradiation will probably do it you have the facilities and nerve
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Rex Franklin
>> "Lum" > wrote in message
>> news
>>>
>>> "Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is
>>>> possible to essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed
>>>> grapes; just the opposite of what is desired in making wine. I
>>>> realize that in the time it takes to squeeze the grapes and
>>>> collect and bottle (if one chose those steps in order quickly)
>>>> would still result in fermentation beginning, but if one wished to
>>>> stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and how?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Colonel Blip
>>>
>>> A couple of possibilities come to mind. You could filter the juice
>>> with a tight membrane filter and remove all of the native yeast and
>>> bacteria. This method requires special equipment and a course
>>> filtration will be needed before the membrane filter could be used.
>>>
>>> Or, you could pasteurize the bottled juice just before sealing the
>>> bottles. A temperature of 160 - 170 F for two or three minutes
>>> might kill the native yeast and bacteria. This method requires
>>> special heating equipment and the juice must be mixed in some way
>>> to maintain a uniform temperature.
>>>
>>> Of course, you could always freeze the juice.

--
Colonel Blip

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"Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
...
> I have read where it is possible to boil the grape must to make something
> akin to molasses and seal it

Boiling should pasteurize the juice and kill the microbes, but the character
of the fresh juice will be changed.

> (I suppose one could add something like
> potassium metabisulfite as well) and, since no yeast is added, could
prevent
> fermentation. Is this true?

Large quantities of potassium metabisulfite can inhibit fermentation, but
the quantities needed are so large the juice would not be useful for most
applications.

>snip..

People have done this for years. Use standard canning techniques. You will
need to strain, and filter the juice to get rid of solids. Cook it to kill
anything in it. And you will need to use true sterilization rather than
sanitation used in wine making. But search the web for canning juice.

Ray

"Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
...
> This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is possible
to
> essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
> opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time it
> takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those
steps
> in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if one
> wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and
how?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Colonel Blip
>
> Remove "nospam" when replying.
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

but after that it will not taste the same as "fresh" grape juice -- the
heat/pasteurisation is a huge part of why red wine kits never achieve the
same quality!
You finish up with that coked fruit taste!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
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"Ray" > wrote in message
om...
> People have done this for years. Use standard canning techniques. You
will
> need to strain, and filter the juice to get rid of solids. Cook it to
kill
> anything in it. And you will need to use true sterilization rather than
> sanitation used in wine making. But search the web for canning juice.
>
> Ray
>
> "Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is
possible
> to
> > essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
> > opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time
it
> > takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those
> steps
> > in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if
one
> > wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and
> how?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Colonel Blip
> >
> > Remove "nospam" when replying.
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>

For "coked" read "cooked" !!!!

--
Trevor A Panther

I have never eaten any canned food that tasted like fresh. No surprise
there. But if you want the stuff out of season, it is what people have done
for years.

Ray

"Pinky" > wrote in message
...
> but after that it will not taste the same as "fresh" grape juice -- the
> heat/pasteurisation is a huge part of why red wine kits never achieve the
> same quality!
> You finish up with that coked fruit taste!
>
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Ray" > wrote in message
> om...
> > People have done this for years. Use standard canning techniques. You
> will
> > need to strain, and filter the juice to get rid of solids. Cook it to
> kill
> > anything in it. And you will need to use true sterilization rather than
> > sanitation used in wine making. But search the web for canning juice.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > "Colonel Blip" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This may seem a bit "off the wall" but I am researching if it is
> possible
> > to
> > > essentially prevent fermentation in freshly squeezed grapes; just the
> > > opposite of what is desired in making wine. I realize that in the time
> it
> > > takes to squeeze the grapes and collect and bottle (if one chose those
> > steps
> > > in order quickly) would still result in fermentation beginning, but if
> one
> > > wished to stop the fermentation at that stage would it be possible and
> > how?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Colonel Blip
> > >
> > > Remove "nospam" when replying.
> > > __________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >
> >
>
>

Last year, I froze some fresh juice and reserved it to add back to completed
wine to give a higher sugar content. In spite of all of my efforts at
filtering and sulfiting, it still re-fermented in the bottle. The problem with
most readily available filters is that they don't take out ALL of the
yeast....just enough to fool you.

Lee

On 26 Jan 2004 14:13:11 GMT, (LG1111) wrote:

>Last year, I froze some fresh juice and reserved it to add back to completed
>wine to give a higher sugar content. In spite of all of my efforts at
>filtering and sulfiting, it still re-fermented in the bottle. The problem with
>most readily available filters is that they don't take out ALL of the
>yeast....just enough to fool you.

I know of several wineries in the Finger Lakes of NY that cold
stabilize and then sterile filter their late harvest wines to stop the
fermentation. The process does work, if the filter is fine enough.

How fine is that? Darned if I know -- I don't use a filter. :-)
Seriously, if I recall correctly a filter that prevents anything
greater than 5 microns (???) from passing is required. And the
problem with the fine filters is that they also strip color and
flavor.

On the few occasions that I sweeten a wine at bottling time, I add a
fining agent, cold stabilize for a week, rack before it warms up, and
then add sorbate to prevent a renewed fermentation.

Bryan

I think sterile filtration would do the trick. But 5 microns is WAY to coarse.
The value may be (.5) as in 1/2 micron. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also in regard
to previous comments about "cooked" taste. Does this apply to many of the "hot
pressed" buckets of fresh juice? My understanding is that these reds are
processed at a much higher temp than the better quality wine kits? Again,
correct me if I'm wrong.

As someone who filters and does not filter let me input my opinion
here... For home use a .45 micron filter (preferrably rated as absolute) is
all that is needed for a sterile filtration of an otherwise clear and stable
wine. I have used .45 micron Nominal cartridge filters with great success,
and I think they are more than adequate for most home winemakers that are
looking for a "sterile" filtration. I must point out to avoid confusion that
this is not a truly sterile method that I employ (meaning all yeasts are
gone) but in practice I have found it to be adequate 99.9 percent of the
time. I have also used .2 micron filters and although they certainly due a
good job of filtering I didn't see the advantages for my home use, and they
tend to blind much faster than the .45 microns.
In regards to the stripping of color or taste I haven't seen this to be
true in practice. That is not to say that taste or color is not removed, but
generally I would point out that the flavor or color component that a .45
micron filter would remove probably doesn't belong in your wine. With that
point stated I still say to each there own. HTH
John Dixon
"Brewser83" > wrote in message
...
> I think sterile filtration would do the trick. But 5 microns is WAY to
coarse.
> The value may be (.5) as in 1/2 micron. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also in
regard
> to previous comments about "cooked" taste. Does this apply to many of the
"hot
> pressed" buckets of fresh juice? My understanding is that these reds are
> processed at a much higher temp than the better quality wine kits? Again,
> correct me if I'm wrong.

John, what brand of filter do you use? Is "Nominal" a brand name?

Lee

Lee,
Nominal is a rating method which if I recall is that the average is .45
micron for example. An absolute rated filter will not allow anything larger
than .45 through, and is a much more stringent standard. I buy my filter
cartridges from Presque Isles, and then nominal .45 10" cartridges are
around $35. each, but I dont remember the name. Not that many choices once
you look at them on their site.
I have found that if your wine is very clear, or you are prefiltering
such as with a 1 micron wound filter then the filters will last for at least
a couple hundred gallons or more. HTH
John Dixon
"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> John, what brand of filter do you use? Is "Nominal" a brand name?
>
> Lee