|
Big Reds - The Verdict!
Back in the end of –92 I bought several large size red wine kits (18).
Over the past holidays my friends and I did a scored tasting. The tasting result went like this. They all except for one have some kind of cooked flavor. The one was Brew Kings Pinot Noir. Not to get me wrong, the wine has no nose, no finesse whatsoever. Basically taste as good as any $9 jug wine. But the finish was clean. So I wonder if anyone else find the same result? I visited and tasted 7 home wine making affairs the last year and was part of 2 "manufactures tasting". Each time taking special note to any kit wine that I came across. I am no Parker by a long shot. But my verdict is simple, cooked juice is cooked wine. They all have an obnoxious cooked flavor. These claim that a juice can even reach the most elementary of a balance wine and be classified, as a "$20" wine is a pure pipe dream. Either these people have never been exposed to a "big" wine. Or the alcohol is simply clouding their judgments. A big wine does not mean big bucks. Just find yourself a bottle of the Australian 2001 Shiraz from Wynns Coonawarra Estate ($9.95 here). Or some of the Spanish wines that reach our shores for the same price. So what do you do with these kit wines? I have begun serving them at various parties and guess what, everybody just loves them…. SG Brix |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
> Back in the end of ?92 I bought several large size red wine kits (18).
> Over the past holidays my friends and I did a scored tasting. I didn't think a kit was meant to be aged for 14 years. I mean everyone has this view that they're going to put bottles away for 20 or 40 years and have the equal of Chateaux bottled wines. Even alot of winery bottled stuff, here and from Europe or anywhere else, wouldn't make it that long. There have been more than a few postings here of people wanting to make wine in the year their children are born for their wedding. Usually the replies are a dose of reality. I would guess most kit wines have a life time of 4-8 years max. At least that is my opinion based on what I've read. Don |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
"sgbrix" > wrote in message om... <snip> > I visited and tasted 7 home wine making affairs the last year and was > part of 2 "manufactures tasting". Each time taking special note to any > kit wine that I came across. I am no Parker by a long shot. But my > verdict is simple, cooked juice is cooked wine. They all have an > obnoxious cooked flavor. <snip> > So what do you do with these kit wines? I have begun serving them at > various parties and guess what, everybody just loves them.. > > SG Brix Yup - Some folks actually_prefer_that "...obnoxious cooked flavor." Especially in some "country" wines. (ie Strawberry) |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
I concur with Don. I do not believe most kit wines should be aged beyond 2
years. They are designed for quick gratification. If you are going to age for ages, use fresh fruit. Also, I think the kits have improved markedly since 92. But all that said, I agree with Brix in that I am still not impressed by any of the red kits I have tasted. I make whites from kits and they are just fine but for red, I make it from scratch. But I will try a red kit every other year or so just to see how they come out. White kits seem to come out as good as I can make from scratch. Reds do not. Ray "Don S" > wrote in message om... > > Back in the end of ?92 I bought several large size red wine kits (18). > > Over the past holidays my friends and I did a scored tasting. > > I didn't think a kit was meant to be aged for 14 years. I mean > everyone has this view that they're going to put bottles away for > 20 or 40 years and have the equal of Chateaux bottled wines. > Even alot of winery bottled stuff, here and from Europe or anywhere > else, wouldn't make it that long. > > There have been more than a few postings here of people wanting > to make wine in the year their children are born for their wedding. > Usually the replies are a dose of reality. > > I would guess most kit wines have a life time of 4-8 years max. > At least that is my opinion based on what I've read. > > Don |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
>The tasting result went like this. They all except for one have some kind of
cooked flavor. The one was Brew Kings Pinot Noir. Not to get me wrong, the wine has no nose, no finesse whatsoever. Basically taste as good as any $9 jug wine. But the finish was clean. So I wonder if>anyone else find the same result?<< I have made a bunch of red kits so far, BK OV Zin, Australian Shiraz, two Pinot's, and four limited edition reds. I have noticed the taste that you mention in some kits but not others. I noticed it in the Shiraz, but not the Pinot Noir or the 2 limited edition kits from last year. The OV Zin needs alot more time... The whites don't seem to have this taste, and in fact think the italian Pinot kit is among the best Pinot I have tasted. I think personally they are better than jug wines, but they are not a $20 bottle of wine that's for sure. You're right Brix, people do usually love them at parties though!, so for $3 per bottle, they are a good wine that does improve with a years aging. I haven't tried the Wynns Coonawarra, but will make it a point to do so. I tried a McManis Cabernet I think from 2001, and it was impressive... try it, I don't think you'd be disappointed! Best, PB |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
I'm guessing it's a typo, and he really meant '02...
"Ray" > wrote in message .com>... > I concur with Don. I do not believe most kit wines should be aged beyond 2 > years. They are designed for quick gratification. If you are going to age > for ages, use fresh fruit. Also, I think the kits have improved markedly > since 92. But all that said, I agree with Brix in that I am still not > impressed by any of the red kits I have tasted. I make whites from kits and > they are just fine but for red, I make it from scratch. But I will try a > red kit every other year or so just to see how they come out. White kits > seem to come out as good as I can make from scratch. Reds do not. > > Ray > > "Don S" > wrote in message > om... > > > Back in the end of ?92 I bought several large size red wine kits (18). > > > Over the past holidays my friends and I did a scored tasting. > > > > I didn't think a kit was meant to be aged for 14 years. I mean > > everyone has this view that they're going to put bottles away for > > 20 or 40 years and have the equal of Chateaux bottled wines. > > Even alot of winery bottled stuff, here and from Europe or anywhere > > else, wouldn't make it that long. > > > > There have been more than a few postings here of people wanting > > to make wine in the year their children are born for their wedding. > > Usually the replies are a dose of reality. > > > > I would guess most kit wines have a life time of 4-8 years max. > > At least that is my opinion based on what I've read. > > > > Don |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
SG,
I agree 100%. Kit reds, in my experience, always have that cooked, almost caramelized taste. I believe it comes from something called hydroxymethylfurfural, which is formed when they heat the juice in the concentration & color setting process. Perhaps they don't heat the whites as much. Kit whites can be quite nice, and I'll still make one occasionally. Funny that you ask what one does with these wines. "A fellow I know" is recycling the last of his kit red wine into brandy at this very moment. I, er, "he" hopes to try his hand at a port type wine this year. I also agree with the sentiment that a lot of people like these wines nonetheless. I guess that a basically well made and balanced wine, even with a taste that some perceive as a flaw, can outclass a lot of the plonk of the market. It amazes me when one of my wines, one I'm not too proud of, is so well received by others, who may not even know it's homemade (or that I'm lurking nearby & watching). My reaction is "What kind of junk do these people buy?" I think I'd be too embarrassed to bottle some of the stuff that I find in the stores, and perhaps that's why the kits, even reds, are enjoyed by so many; that the competition may be even worse. Sorry for the ramble. Luck, Mike MTM |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
|
Big Reds - The Verdict!
"sgbrix" > wrote in message om... <snip> > >In ref: Yup - Some folks actually_prefer_that "...obnoxious cooked > flavor." > Especially in some "country" wines. (ie Strawberry) > > The problem I have with country wines in general is not that it has > these cooked flavors, but that I have never really been able to make > or tasted a wine in any comparison of a fruity or full-bodied wine > like that of a wine made from grapes. I did 4 different strawberry > wines the last year that is slowly coming along. If you compare the > fruits, one was from wild strawberry that had a beautiful aroma and > succulent taste when picked, but has lost all that in the wine > generally taste the same as the store bought berries. One was made > from last years, that is -03 crops here in Florida that was quite > lousy. Commercial berries at the markets here had no real taste last > year. > > Personally I think is simply the added sugar that kill out these > nuances for any country wine and make them all stale compared with > "real" wine. I have tried both way, fruit-water-sugar, and just > fruit-sugar. In either case there have not been that much difference. > > I'll go on with these country wines just for the fun of it. Still > waiting for that magical moment that one would pull the cork from a > "huge" fruit wine that will throw a bouquet so wild that one would go > totally nuts about it. > > Just show me the way, > > SG Brix Wines don't taste like the fruit they are made from. They taste like ....well...like wine. It's all a matter of personal preference. Some folks don't like broccoli, so they simply don't put it on their plates !! If you don't like country wines, stop making them. If you don't like red kit wines, stop buying them. Life is too short. Most folks find a few wines that they really like and just concentrate on making those the very best way they know how. Some also do small little experimental batches in the hopes of finding something else they will like to add to their list of favorites. Seems to me the best way to go. If you just want fruit juice with alcohol in it, buy a bottle of vodka and make mixed drinks. Always more than one way to skin a cat !! ;o) |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
> The problem I have with country wines in general is not that it has
> these cooked flavors, but that I have never really been able to make > or tasted a wine in any comparison of a fruity or full-bodied wine > like that of a wine made from grapes. Well this is an interesting topic of much debate (see "Fruit wines - emulating the BIG grape styles" thread begun 2000/12/11 for example). I would say it is more likely to be achieved by using 100% fruit juice and certain extraction techniques. > fruits, one was from wild strawberry that had a beautiful aroma and > succulent taste when picked, but has lost all that in the wine > generally taste the same as the store bought berries. One was made Are you saying it has lost all that after a year? If so, I'd say of course: I'd wouldn't expect many strawberry wines to show as well beyond a year's ageing. Though, of course, it depends on the style. > Commercial berries at the markets here had no real taste last year. Fruit quality is the biggest issue. > Personally I think is simply the added sugar that kill out these > nuances for any country wine and make them all stale compared with > "real" wine. That's interesting. Most people on this ng seem to believe that some r.s. *brings out the fruit more*! I'd incline to disagree with the above statement (some r.s. causes a more stale aroma). Ben |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
MikeMTM > wrote in message >...
> SG, > > I agree 100%. Kit reds, in my experience, always have that cooked, > almost caramelized taste. I believe it comes from something called > hydroxymethylfurfural, which is formed when they heat the juice in the > concentration & color setting process. ---snip For the reds yes, but as someone pointed out it is not in the white wines, although there is other issues. For those that read The Winemaker Magazine issue Vol 7 No1. International Wine Competition, I find it still strange how kit wines can be judge with "real" wines. I did both Wine Art Gold Cabernet & Brew Kings International French Cabernet, (both was mentioned in the gold selection of Cabernet Sauvignon), and they, may we now call it the hydroxymethylfurfural taste was in both of my wines. If I understand it right Daniel Pambianchi was one of the judges for this group, documenting a corked wine to Chris Colby. Did they ok this hydroxymethylfurfural taste as a handicap for any kit wine so as not excluding them all? Or is it possible to loose this flavor somehow like what happened to my Pinot Noir? I really like to know. SG Brix |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
"frederick ploegman" > wrote in message >...
> "sgbrix" > wrote in message > om... ---snip > > Wines don't taste like the fruit they are made from. They taste like > ...well...like wine. It's all a matter of personal preference. ---snip I really can't concur with that. All fruit wines I ever made have at least had some hint of the original fruit flavor. Now vegetable wines might be another story. I used to make several different fruit wines and have begun now for over a year to make them again. I usually do the same as most commercial fruit winery does, bump the flavor after the last racking and let this settle out. But this only gives you a better fruitier taste, no bouquet. SG Brix |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
"sgbrix" > wrote in message m... > > For those that read The Winemaker Magazine issue Vol 7 No1. > International Wine Competition, I find it still strange how kit wines > can be judge with "real" wines. I did both Wine Art Gold Cabernet & > Brew Kings International French Cabernet, (both was mentioned in the > gold selection of Cabernet Sauvignon), and they, may we now call it > the hydroxymethylfurfural taste was in both of my wines. In last year's AWC competitions, a Wine Art (of all things) kit took gold medals in the Red Bordeaux class at both the Ontario provincials and the nationals (the only wine to be awarded a gold at the nationals). Clearly kit wines can compete at the amateur level against wines made from grapes. I haven't tasted this wine, I don't know if it has the "kit wine" taste that I seem to find in every kit red I taste. I am starting to suspect that some people either don't taste this component, or simply don't find it as offensive as I do. To my tastes, it is a flaw. However, I don't think amateur judges will ever be taught to recognize it as such. The powerful kit wine lobby would be all over any such attempts to discriminate against their wines. ;-) Brian |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
The kit wines I make are mostly reds -- cos I like red wine. But the reason
I have gone on upward to the higher priced kits is to seek an increase in vinousity (?) and a reduction in the cooked flavour. But it still exists and it seems from reading this string that it is unavoidable. It is the same reason that I don't cook my blackberries or elderberries ( or indeed any of my fruits for wine ) I learned that lesson 30 years ago. BUT occasionally something different happens. I mentioned on another topic the other day that I had made a "tempranillo" wine from a SolVino kit -- a cheaper end of the range at £22 for a 5 gall imp kit ( cf Selection reds @£52.50). It came in two large cans and I it made as a summer slurping/cooking wine, starting in September 2002. It actually got a bit forgotten in its bulk aging and I didn't bottle it until Mid September 2003. I don't even recollect anything about it at bottling time. anyway come last Christmas I opened a bottle to aid me and the pot, in making some casseroley thingy or other. anyway I immediately decided to put it on my "reserve" shelves. It is every bit as good as some of my Selection reds at less than half the price. I am usually very sensitive the the red kit wine taste but honestly it was barely perceptible -- if at all. I opened a bottle about half an hour ago and I am tasting it right now. Yes there is a smidgin of the old cooked wine taste but I have to look hard for it. But there is a good whack of tannin in the mouth -- which I favour -- and perhaps if more kit wines had a bit more bite and harshness to them it might ameliorate the cooked wine flavour. Now I am not being critical but I remember some 20 plus years ago being offered a Californian red for the first time when dining with my 2 schoolboy sons. There was a bit of a promotion Would it be a "Paul Masson" wine? -- something like that. But I immediately commented that it was too smooth and innocuous on my palate. Here's where I am not being critical. Is it possible that the "US American" taste in red wines tends towards reduced tannin levels. I am certainly aware that most of the kit wines lack ( for my tastes) that slightly mouth puckering sensation that I associate with a good tannin "belt" I am probably talking rubbish as usual but I certainly do add a extra bit of tannin in one or two of the BK selection reds -- Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply. All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus for your protection too! "Brian Lundeen" > wrote in message ... <snip><snip> > |
Big Reds - The Verdict!
"Pinky" > wrote in message >...
> The kit wines I make are mostly reds -- cos I like red wine. But the reason > I have gone on upward to the higher priced kits is to seek an increase in > vinousity (?) and a reduction in the cooked flavour. ---snip I just want to point out that Daniel Pambianchi was not involved in the competition organization, only with the judging, he does state in reference to HMF, "It all depends on how the kit was processed and the detection threshold of the taster." I'm not out to put a curse on any kit wine, far from it. It think it is great that we finally have found an industry that is willing to make the investments and energy into trying to create a grape juice that home winemakers can use and play with. As they develop this game, the better they will become and this will benefit us all. I still do think that they (kit wines) should be separated from "real" wine in any competition. So that we can one day if possible create a kit wine that really is as good or better than a good real wine. I mean isn't that the real goal? SG Brix |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:42 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FoodBanter