"Ned" > wrote in message
om...
> I went to bottle some wine yesterday and noticed something odd about a
> lot of the corks I have. THey were a very good quality cork bought
> some tome ago from St. Pats, natural ones, and since opneing have been
> storing them in a mini humidor type thing as many people here seem to
> do (a little water with SO2 in a small container placed inside a
> larger one).
>
> THere corks had various size bluish green spontches inside them, I
> even cut some open. Sort of like a bruised fruit. What is it and can
> I use them? I never noticed this before, though I am fairly new to
> the bottling.

Sounds like mold to me. Personally, I'd toss them out and buy new. I
recommend that you store them dry in future, rinse them in warm water and
drip dry them just before using. Storing in a humid environment is asking
for mold.

Tom S

I've been pleased with the natural corks I've gotten from PI - the ones they
list as Grade A. They're expensive, but I just don't want to take any
chances. They are very clean, have no noticable imperfections, insert
easily and so far, no taint problems (I hate to say that for fear of jinxing
myself).

I am considering switching to Nomacorc or Neocorc, and got some to try.
They look great and seal great, but it's hard to get them to go completely
into the bottle, I think because of their lack of permeability to the air in
the headspace of the bottle and the fact that they seal immediately. I've
seen discussions of inserting some fishing line before putting these in to
give the air a way to escape. If anyone has experience doing that I'd
appreciate any suggestions or descriptions of how you do it without the line
going in completely and the best way to get it out.

Ed


> ALso, where's the best online mail order place anywhere in the U.S. to
> buy corks. I wouldn;t mind somehting of a disccussion of natural vs.
> synthetic etc. but let's not make it a war in this thread. Let's
> suppose I want to really try to use natural ones, all natural, for
> tradition's sake. Other opinions welcome though. Presque and Grape
> and Granary I often buy form, but G&G corks seem cheap looking, and PI
> has almost no details on their site... more techinical, so I don;t
> know what I'm buying.
>
> Thanks,
>
> NNed

You might try lubricating the corker dies with glycerin every 3-4 corks. I
use a floor corker and Nomacorcs this way and it works great. I bottled
about 850 bottles this year using the glycerin "suggestion". Food grade
glycerin is also known as "Wine Conditioner" in some places.
Cheers,

Rory

Ed,

I have used Neocorks and generally I like them in terms of protecting
the wine. I use the "fishing line method" of insertion and it is a
PITA, but it is better than compressing that much air into the
headspace in my opinion. I use 20 lb test line in flourescent green
so I can see it as I put it in the bottle. Basically you just want to
extend it far enough to extend past the cork. I use 5 strands precut,
bottle 5 bottles at a time and then start pulling out the fishing line
starting with the earliest one. This gives the air a chance to work
its way through the pathway created by the fishing line. It is not
instantaneous so give it a little time to work, then just gently pull
the line straight out. You don't want to create a permanent cut in
the cork so pull with the tension angled toward the bottle, not the
cork. It sounds more complicated than it is--just use common sense.

Before I insert the corks I have the Neocorks soaking in a small bowl
of Everclear. This makes sure anything on the surface is dead and
also provides just a touch bit of lubrication so when you use your
floor corker, they slide right in. When I do it this way you can
press with the lever so gently it doesn't even leave the little round
indentation on the top of the cork. Aesthetically very nice. An
alternative to soaking is to use a misting sprayer and spray a little
Everclear or strong vodka on the cork just before insertion. It's not
absolutely necessary to do this but it does ease the process and gives
a little peace of mind.

I don't like the fishing line procedure so I am thinking of switching
to some type of natural cork, maybe a 1+1 style--agglomerated in the
middle and natural disks on the ends. Not sure yet. Natural corks
will let the excess headspace pressure bleed off before they
completely seat against the bottle. Synthetics don't, hence the
fishing line.

Another drawback to the fishing line procedure is, when bottling a
red, you get a little red wine that works its way up the air groove
created by the fishing line. Sometimes you can even see it bubble
slightly as the air is bleeding off. While I haven't had any
contamination problems as a result, it does leave a small but
noticeable red stain on the top of the cork. Probably could be
cleaned off but just more PITA. I haven't had any leakers with this
method but definitely let the bottles sit upright after corking for
several days to let the fishing line groove flatten out against the
bottle. Good luck...

Brad




"Ed Marks" > wrote in message >...
> I've been pleased with the natural corks I've gotten from PI - the ones they
> list as Grade A. They're expensive, but I just don't want to take any
> chances. They are very clean, have no noticable imperfections, insert
> easily and so far, no taint problems (I hate to say that for fear of jinxing
> myself).
>
> I am considering switching to Nomacorc or Neocorc, and got some to try.
> They look great and seal great, but it's hard to get them to go completely
> into the bottle, I think because of their lack of permeability to the air in
> the headspace of the bottle and the fact that they seal immediately. I've
> seen discussions of inserting some fishing line before putting these in to
> give the air a way to escape. If anyone has experience doing that I'd
> appreciate any suggestions or descriptions of how you do it without the line
> going in completely and the best way to get it out.
>
> Ed
>
>
> > ALso, where's the best online mail order place anywhere in the U.S. to
> > buy corks. I wouldn;t mind somehting of a disccussion of natural vs.
> > synthetic etc. but let's not make it a war in this thread. Let's
> > suppose I want to really try to use natural ones, all natural, for
> > tradition's sake. Other opinions welcome though. Presque and Grape
> > and Granary I often buy form, but G&G corks seem cheap looking, and PI
> > has almost no details on their site... more techinical, so I don;t
> > know what I'm buying.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > NNed

Thanks for the description - sounds like a pain but I'll give it a try on
some bottles filled with water before I decide to do it with a batch of
wine. I do have two questions: how do you keep the line from falling into
the bottle when the cork goes in? Do you tie it on to something that makes
it easier to pull out?

Thanks again,

Ed


"Brad B." > wrote in message
om...
> Ed,
>
> I have used Neocorks and generally I like them in terms of protecting
> the wine. I use the "fishing line method" of insertion and it is a
> PITA, but it is better than compressing that much air into the
> headspace in my opinion. I use 20 lb test line in flourescent green
> so I can see it as I put it in the bottle. Basically you just want to
> extend it far enough to extend past the cork. I use 5 strands precut,
> bottle 5 bottles at a time and then start pulling out the fishing line
> starting with the earliest one. This gives the air a chance to work
> its way through the pathway created by the fishing line. It is not
> instantaneous so give it a little time to work, then just gently pull
> the line straight out. You don't want to create a permanent cut in
> the cork so pull with the tension angled toward the bottle, not the
> cork. It sounds more complicated than it is--just use common sense.
>
> Before I insert the corks I have the Neocorks soaking in a small bowl
> of Everclear. This makes sure anything on the surface is dead and
> also provides just a touch bit of lubrication so when you use your
> floor corker, they slide right in. When I do it this way you can
> press with the lever so gently it doesn't even leave the little round
> indentation on the top of the cork. Aesthetically very nice. An
> alternative to soaking is to use a misting sprayer and spray a little
> Everclear or strong vodka on the cork just before insertion. It's not
> absolutely necessary to do this but it does ease the process and gives
> a little peace of mind.
>
> I don't like the fishing line procedure so I am thinking of switching
> to some type of natural cork, maybe a 1+1 style--agglomerated in the
> middle and natural disks on the ends. Not sure yet. Natural corks
> will let the excess headspace pressure bleed off before they
> completely seat against the bottle. Synthetics don't, hence the
> fishing line.
>
> Another drawback to the fishing line procedure is, when bottling a
> red, you get a little red wine that works its way up the air groove
> created by the fishing line. Sometimes you can even see it bubble
> slightly as the air is bleeding off. While I haven't had any
> contamination problems as a result, it does leave a small but
> noticeable red stain on the top of the cork. Probably could be
> cleaned off but just more PITA. I haven't had any leakers with this
> method but definitely let the bottles sit upright after corking for
> several days to let the fishing line groove flatten out against the
> bottle. Good luck...
>
> Brad

Thanks Rory,

Do you find that the Nomacorcs seat properly - that is, the added
lubrication doesn't make them push back out from the air pressure created by
insertion?

Ed


"Rory Vinson" > wrote in message
...
> You might try lubricating the corker dies with glycerin every 3-4 corks.
I
> use a floor corker and Nomacorcs this way and it works great. I bottled
> about 850 bottles this year using the glycerin "suggestion". Food grade
> glycerin is also known as "Wine Conditioner" in some places.
> Cheers,
>
> Rory
>

> I am considering switching to Nomacorc or Neocorc, and got some to try.
> They look great and seal great, but it's hard to get them to go completely
> into the bottle, I think because of their lack of permeability to the air in
> the headspace of the bottle and the fact that they seal immediately. I've
> seen discussions of inserting some fishing line before putting these in to
> give the air a way to escape. If anyone has experience doing that I'd
> appreciate any suggestions or descriptions of how you do it without the line
> going in completely and the best way to get it out.
>
> Ed
>

I'm in the middle of a switch to Nomacorc (first order due in this
week). Though the corker I now use is a semi-automatic (commercial
grade), my trials with this closure have been going on for several
years now.. since the time when all my wine was bottled with a floor
corker. I never noticed any problem inserting them, or having them
push back up, with a standard Portuguese floor corker or the Italian
semi that I now use.

With the volume I do, there's no way I'd consider attempting a
procedure like placing a fishing line in the bottle before corking.



clyde

I have never seen what you describe. If you used SO2 solution in the
humidifier it should not have happened unless it was already growing in the
corks before they were put in it. I would not only chunk these and
sterilize (not clean) the bucket they were kept in but I would worry about
any existing bottles that used these corks. But I have never heard of this
and may be over concerned.

I have used both to Nomacorc or Neocorc for the last year and have had no
trouble with them. I use a floor corker and it does not have any trouble
putting them in all the way. (Unless I over fill the bottle!) I have not
had to lubricate them. I had heard that they were difficult to extract but
I have not had any trouble. My one complaint is that once extracted they
are very difficult or impossible to push back in if I do not drink the whole
bottle. I have gone to using tasting corks for that.

Ray

"Ned" > wrote in message
om...
> I went to bottle some wine yesterday and noticed something odd about a
> lot of the corks I have. THey were a very good quality cork bought
> some tome ago from St. Pats, natural ones, and since opneing have been
> storing them in a mini humidor type thing as many people here seem to
> do (a little water with SO2 in a small container placed inside a
> larger one).
>
> THere corks had various size bluish green spontches inside them, I
> even cut some open. Sort of like a bruised fruit. What is it and can
> I use them? I never noticed this before, though I am fairly new to
> the bottling.
>
> ALso, where's the best online mail order place anywhere in the U.S. to
> buy corks. I wouldn;t mind somehting of a disccussion of natural vs.
> synthetic etc. but let's not make it a war in this thread. Let's
> suppose I want to really try to use natural ones, all natural, for
> tradition's sake. Other opinions welcome though. Presque and Grape
> and Granary I often buy form, but G&G corks seem cheap looking, and PI
> has almost no details on their site... more techinical, so I don;t
> know what I'm buying.
>
> Thanks,
>
> NNed

hi ed,
i bought a package of "snelled" hooks(have a small length of heavy mono
attached). i cut it from the hook, sanitize, put cut end a couple of inches
into the bottle. after corking, put a pen,screwdriver, etc. into the loop
and gently pull out. very good control of the speed. hth
jim book
"Ed Marks" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the description - sounds like a pain but I'll give it a try on
> some bottles filled with water before I decide to do it with a batch of
> wine. I do have two questions: how do you keep the line from falling into
> the bottle when the cork goes in? Do you tie it on to something that
makes
> it easier to pull out?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ed
>
>
> "Brad B." > wrote in message
> om...
> > Ed,
> >
> > I have used Neocorks and generally I like them in terms of protecting
> > the wine. I use the "fishing line method" of insertion and it is a
> > PITA, but it is better than compressing that much air into the
> > headspace in my opinion. I use 20 lb test line in flourescent green
> > so I can see it as I put it in the bottle. Basically you just want to
> > extend it far enough to extend past the cork. I use 5 strands precut,
> > bottle 5 bottles at a time and then start pulling out the fishing line
> > starting with the earliest one. This gives the air a chance to work
> > its way through the pathway created by the fishing line. It is not
> > instantaneous so give it a little time to work, then just gently pull
> > the line straight out. You don't want to create a permanent cut in
> > the cork so pull with the tension angled toward the bottle, not the
> > cork. It sounds more complicated than it is--just use common sense.
> >
> > Before I insert the corks I have the Neocorks soaking in a small bowl
> > of Everclear. This makes sure anything on the surface is dead and
> > also provides just a touch bit of lubrication so when you use your
> > floor corker, they slide right in. When I do it this way you can
> > press with the lever so gently it doesn't even leave the little round
> > indentation on the top of the cork. Aesthetically very nice. An
> > alternative to soaking is to use a misting sprayer and spray a little
> > Everclear or strong vodka on the cork just before insertion. It's not
> > absolutely necessary to do this but it does ease the process and gives
> > a little peace of mind.
> >
> > I don't like the fishing line procedure so I am thinking of switching
> > to some type of natural cork, maybe a 1+1 style--agglomerated in the
> > middle and natural disks on the ends. Not sure yet. Natural corks
> > will let the excess headspace pressure bleed off before they
> > completely seat against the bottle. Synthetics don't, hence the
> > fishing line.
> >
> > Another drawback to the fishing line procedure is, when bottling a
> > red, you get a little red wine that works its way up the air groove
> > created by the fishing line. Sometimes you can even see it bubble
> > slightly as the air is bleeding off. While I haven't had any
> > contamination problems as a result, it does leave a small but
> > noticeable red stain on the top of the cork. Probably could be
> > cleaned off but just more PITA. I haven't had any leakers with this
> > method but definitely let the bottles sit upright after corking for
> > several days to let the fishing line groove flatten out against the
> > bottle. Good luck...
> >
> > Brad
>
>

Even at low volume I'm not thrilled with having to stick in fishing line for
every bottle. On the Neocorc web site, they say that:
"Bottling without vacuum:

When bottling with a vacuum-less corker, there is a chance that there will
be more pressure in the air space between the wine level and the cork. Under
some circumstances (and only immediately after bottling) this air pressure
can partially push the cork out of the bottle."

That's what I've been experiencing, so I just tried an experiment with my
Portuguese floor corker. I corked one bottle like I have before, just
pushing the plunger down and up immediately (like I do with natural cork)
and the Neocorc was not fully inserted (even though the depth of the plunger
should have gotten it all the way in). Then I tried a few bottles pushing
the plunger down and just holding it for a few seconds, and viola the cork
was fully inserted and stayed there. It seems that gives the cork enough
time to seal the bottle and not let the air pressure push it back out.

If holding it down a second or two makes the difference, I can handle that,
although I know it wouldn't work for you Clyde in a commercial winery.

Ed


>
> I'm in the middle of a switch to Nomacorc (first order due in this
> week). Though the corker I now use is a semi-automatic (commercial
> grade), my trials with this closure have been going on for several
> years now.. since the time when all my wine was bottled with a floor
> corker. I never noticed any problem inserting them, or having them
> push back up, with a standard Portuguese floor corker or the Italian
> semi that I now use.
>
> With the volume I do, there's no way I'd consider attempting a
> procedure like placing a fishing line in the bottle before corking.
>
>
>
> clyde

Does anyone else know if it might be somehting else? I thought a lot
of people were doing the SO2 thing to keep nasties like mold away...
not just plain water.

From places like PI that don't list any details (most places don't)
about their corks, how do you know what quality you are getting? Is
there a grading system or the like I can find out about? WHo else
carries corks IN STOCK and at the most copmpetitive proces, for
comparable quality.

Do these synthetic corks have cork centers or plastic right through?

NNed


"Tom S" > wrote in message >...
> "Ned" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I went to bottle some wine yesterday and noticed something odd about a
> > lot of the corks I have. THey were a very good quality cork bought
> > some tome ago from St. Pats, natural ones, and since opneing have been
> > storing them in a mini humidor type thing as many people here seem to
> > do (a little water with SO2 in a small container placed inside a
> > larger one).
> >
> > THere corks had various size bluish green spontches inside them, I
> > even cut some open. Sort of like a bruised fruit. What is it and can
> > I use them? I never noticed this before, though I am fairly new to
> > the bottling.
>
> Sounds like mold to me. Personally, I'd toss them out and buy new. I
> recommend that you store them dry in future, rinse them in warm water and
> drip dry them just before using. Storing in a humid environment is asking
> for mold.
>
> Tom S

Thanks Jim - sounds like a good way to do it.

Ed

"jim book" > wrote in message
...
> hi ed,
> i bought a package of "snelled" hooks(have a small length of heavy
mono
> attached). i cut it from the hook, sanitize, put cut end a couple of
inches
> into the bottle. after corking, put a pen,screwdriver, etc. into the loop
> and gently pull out. very good control of the speed. hth
> jim book

Ed,

Because the fishing line is cut from a roll, it has a natural curve to
it which prevents it from falling into the bottle. You just drape it
over the lip of the bottle. I don't tie anything to the line and have
never had a problem pulling the line out. I do recommend the higher
test line if you try this method, though. I seem to remember breaking
one or two with a lighter test. Then you have to pull the cork out
and start over.

clyde,

It is a major PITA, which is why I am investigating changing corks,
even though technically I like the Neocork material and its
properties. I am wondering if you use a vacuum corker with the
Nomacorks? If not, will you just compensate for the high headspace
pressure with more SO2? I'm not so worried about corks working their
way out (though that might be a problem), but am more concerned with
SO2 deterioration. Thanks for your input!

Brad





"Ed Marks" > wrote in message >...
> Thanks for the description - sounds like a pain but I'll give it a try on
> some bottles filled with water before I decide to do it with a batch of
> wine. I do have two questions: how do you keep the line from falling into
> the bottle when the cork goes in? Do you tie it on to something that makes
> it easier to pull out?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ed
>
>

On 3/9/04 4:00 PM, in article
, "Ned"
> wrote:

>
> From places like PI that don't list any details (most places don't)
> about their corks, how do you know what quality you are getting? Is
> there a grading system or the like I can find out about? WHo else
> carries corks IN STOCK and at the most copmpetitive proces, for
> comparable quality.
>
> NNed
>

The folks at PI and I'm sure other suppliers as well do have some knowledge
about their products. You should pick up the phone and call them. I think
they would be happy to give you more information.

I wonder if we have forgotten how to dial telephones now that we have the
internet so available! :-)

I'm fortunate to have a PI store location here in Fargo. I just had a
discussion recently about their corks. I am not a big fan of synthetics -
mainly because the traditional cork screws don't do a good job of getting
them out. PI sells some good quality "grade A" corks for sure. But Mike Jore
from our PI location suggested I try the less expensive over-branded corks.
I asked him specifically if these were rejected by the wineries due to
quality and he assured me that was not the case. These corks simply had
errors on the branded printing so the wineries did not want to use them. I
just bottled my first 50 bottles or so with them and my initial impression
is good.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Ned,
I would throw those corks away or see if someone could use them for a
crafts project. You spend too much time making the wine to let the
cork do you in.

I have used a lot of corks from Presque Isle and Grape and Granary. I
buy synthetics from G&G; natural from PI.

Here is a quick summary:

From G&G:
Nomacork: No issues, easy to get in, easy to extract. Probably what
we will use from now on. I have only used these for a year though, no
long term aging results yet.

Guardian: Kind of an odd shape, almost appear undersized and are
stiff. I had no issues, easy to insert and easy to extract. My
brother thought they went in too easy and did not want to use them.
We never had a leaker, so I think they are fine.

PI:
Agglomerated 1+1; Great price, pretty stiff though. No issues
inserting, but I do pretty much what Tom S. does with natural corks.
I store dry in a closed plastic bag, rinse before use. I throw them
in a funnel to let most of the water drain off. No leakers. They are
harder to extract than usual, but I have not had issues.

High end naturals: You get what you pay for, no issues. Soft, go in
easy, extract easy. I think this is too much money though, I really
don't want to pay more than $0.25 US for a closure and that is all a
cork is.

Mid priced natural (~$200/ 1000: No issues there either; the cracks
are a bit larger but they are good corks. This is usually what I get.
I always buy the 1 3/4" number 9's. These are not filled so you see
the pores and cracks, but I prefer that anyway.

Overbranded: Great price, great corks when available. They sometimes
look goofy but so what, it's a seal. They are high end corks. The
mislabeling can be pretty funny looking or they can look perfect, it
all depends on what they get in. They are very good corks. If you
don't mind someone elses name on the cork these are worth the money, I
have used them with no issues.

I have never had issues with either of these vendors corks, but the
one mentioned above are all I have used and both sell others in
addition to what I mentioned.

You can buy direct off of APM if you want naturals via the internet.
They are also a good supplier.

Any time I have paid less than $125 per 1000 for a natural (other than
the overbranded ones) I have been sorry. The imperfections were worse
and the corks were too stiff, too woody. Even though this is bark, a
good cork is slightly pliable, if it feels like a 2 x 4 it's not worth
using as far as I am concerned.

Buying corks you can't see first can be risky, if the deal seems too
good to be true it probably is. Every time I have told a vendor the
corks were bad they told me I was the only one to ever complain. That
makes no sense to me, I know what I am looking for and don't think I'm
that picky. I just want the cork to not smell funny, go in easy and
not leak. That's all I can check on the front end and I know it's not
asking too much of the cork, that is what it's supposed to do.

We have had a taint issue once in a great while but I'm sure its less
than 0.5%. It was only one batch and the corks were duds to begin
with. That is why I am careful about what we get in and actually use.
The dud batch had prety large cracks that were filled (but badly) and
upon breaking several open you could see the innards were very stiff
and woody. A good cork does not look like that, it does not break
with sharp edges, if you can break it at all. All that said, we have
never had issues with the better natural corks or synthetics. Hope
this helps.

Regards,
Joe


> > I went to bottle some wine yesterday and noticed something odd about a
> > lot of the corks I have...

> > THere corks had various size bluish green spontches inside them, I
> > even cut some open. Sort of like a bruised fruit. What is it and can
> > I use them?
> >
> > ALso, where's the best online mail order place anywhere in the U.S. to
> > buy corks. I wouldn;t mind somehting of a disccussion of natural vs.
> > synthetic etc...> > NNed

Joe,

Thanks for the great post summarzing your results. These are the two
vendors I typically use and have consistently gotten good products.

Why do you think you've had such good luck with very few tainted bottles
using natural corks? This seems to be such a big deal in the wine industry
now. I've had not problems so far but am leaning towards switching to
Nomacorc or Neocork to avoid what hasn't been my problem, yet.

Ed


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
m...
> Ned,
> I would throw those corks away or see if someone could use them for a
> crafts project. You spend too much time making the wine to let the
> cork do you in.
>
> I have used a lot of corks from Presque Isle and Grape and Granary. I
> buy synthetics from G&G; natural from PI.
>
> Here is a quick summary:
>
> From G&G:
> Nomacork: No issues, easy to get in, easy to extract. Probably what
> we will use from now on. I have only used these for a year though, no
> long term aging results yet.
>
> Guardian: Kind of an odd shape, almost appear undersized and are
> stiff. I had no issues, easy to insert and easy to extract. My
> brother thought they went in too easy and did not want to use them.
> We never had a leaker, so I think they are fine.
>
> PI:
> Agglomerated 1+1; Great price, pretty stiff though. No issues
> inserting, but I do pretty much what Tom S. does with natural corks.
> I store dry in a closed plastic bag, rinse before use. I throw them
> in a funnel to let most of the water drain off. No leakers. They are
> harder to extract than usual, but I have not had issues.
>
> High end naturals: You get what you pay for, no issues. Soft, go in
> easy, extract easy. I think this is too much money though, I really
> don't want to pay more than $0.25 US for a closure and that is all a
> cork is.
>
> Mid priced natural (~$200/ 1000: No issues there either; the cracks
> are a bit larger but they are good corks. This is usually what I get.
> I always buy the 1 3/4" number 9's. These are not filled so you see
> the pores and cracks, but I prefer that anyway.
>
> Overbranded: Great price, great corks when available. They sometimes
> look goofy but so what, it's a seal. They are high end corks. The
> mislabeling can be pretty funny looking or they can look perfect, it
> all depends on what they get in. They are very good corks. If you
> don't mind someone elses name on the cork these are worth the money, I
> have used them with no issues.
>
> I have never had issues with either of these vendors corks, but the
> one mentioned above are all I have used and both sell others in
> addition to what I mentioned.
>
> You can buy direct off of APM if you want naturals via the internet.
> They are also a good supplier.
>
> Any time I have paid less than $125 per 1000 for a natural (other than
> the overbranded ones) I have been sorry. The imperfections were worse
> and the corks were too stiff, too woody. Even though this is bark, a
> good cork is slightly pliable, if it feels like a 2 x 4 it's not worth
> using as far as I am concerned.
>
> Buying corks you can't see first can be risky, if the deal seems too
> good to be true it probably is. Every time I have told a vendor the
> corks were bad they told me I was the only one to ever complain. That
> makes no sense to me, I know what I am looking for and don't think I'm
> that picky. I just want the cork to not smell funny, go in easy and
> not leak. That's all I can check on the front end and I know it's not
> asking too much of the cork, that is what it's supposed to do.
>
> We have had a taint issue once in a great while but I'm sure its less
> than 0.5%. It was only one batch and the corks were duds to begin
> with. That is why I am careful about what we get in and actually use.
> The dud batch had prety large cracks that were filled (but badly) and
> upon breaking several open you could see the innards were very stiff
> and woody. A good cork does not look like that, it does not break
> with sharp edges, if you can break it at all. All that said, we have
> never had issues with the better natural corks or synthetics. Hope
> this helps.
>
> Regards,
> Joe

> clyde,
>
> It is a major PITA, which is why I am investigating changing corks,
> even though technically I like the Neocork material and its
> properties. I am wondering if you use a vacuum corker with the
> Nomacorks? If not, will you just compensate for the high headspace
> pressure with more SO2? I'm not so worried about corks working their
> way out (though that might be a problem), but am more concerned with
> SO2 deterioration. Thanks for your input!
>
> Brad
>

The trials we conducted in 2001 were done with a floor corker, and
there was no tendancy for the corc to push back up. My procedure was
to wait until about halfway through the bottling, then to split half a
case between the test corcs and natural corks. So the original free
SO2 levels were the same. I pulled samples on these peridiocally and
the synthetic corc was always about 10% higher in Free SO2, with the
exception of the last one (a few weeks ago) where both had dropped to
nominal levels (8 and 10 ppm).

For several years I monitored my free SO2 in the bottle (while using
natty corks), beginning a couple weeks after bottling, then about once
a month for the remainder of the year. From this information I
determined that my bottling process consumes about 12 ppm of Free SO2,
so that's the figure I use for "bumping" just prior to bottling. Many
wineries do a similar procedu each set of equipment and bottling
techniques will consume it's own value of free SO2.

My understanding of the bottle pressure created from corking is that
it equalizes within a day or two. This occurs because gas can pass
*between* the cork and the bottle, and is valid for both syn. and
natty corks, though it may take a little longer with syns. I don't
have a pressure needle and have not monitored it in my winery. Can't
do anything about it (even my semi-automatic corker does not create
negative pressure), so no real need to know what it's doing. This
might cause an extra amount of O2 to be forced into the wine, but IMO,
it's not enough to be of concern.

clyde

> I wonder if we have forgotten how to dial telephones now that we have the
> internet so available! :-)
>

Yes, indeed. I also have trouble using a pencil. Almost as much
trouble as those trying to read my handwriting!!

> I'm fortunate to have a PI store location here in Fargo. I just had a
> discussion recently about their corks. I am not a big fan of synthetics -
> mainly because the traditional cork screws don't do a good job of getting
> them out.

Reading this, I have to wonder if you're not talking about
Supremecorqs. The Nomacorc (and Neocorc) style closure is quite
different and functions almost imperceptibly the same as a natty
cork.... without the taint or leakage!

If you'd like an example of a Nomacorc in action, purchase a bottle of
Rosemount wine.

Without pointing a specifically accusing finger, I'd have to question
the quality of any natty cork handled second hand. When I've ordered
natties, they would be adjusted at the vendor for moisture content and
sulfited just prior to shipping. These would have an obvious shelf
life (less than 4 months) after which they started to loose the
elasticity and the SO2 aroma. A fresh bag of corks would nearly knock
you out with SO2 gas.

clyde

On 3/11/04 9:17 AM, in article
, "Clyde Gill"
> wrote:

>> I wonder if we have forgotten how to dial telephones now that we have the
>> internet so available! :-)
>>
>
> Yes, indeed. I also have trouble using a pencil. Almost as much
> trouble as those trying to read my handwriting!!
>
>> I'm fortunate to have a PI store location here in Fargo. I just had a
>> discussion recently about their corks. I am not a big fan of synthetics -
>> mainly because the traditional cork screws don't do a good job of getting
>> them out.
>
> Reading this, I have to wonder if you're not talking about
> Supremecorqs. The Nomacorc (and Neocorc) style closure is quite
> different and functions almost imperceptibly the same as a natty
> cork.... without the taint or leakage!
>
> If you'd like an example of a Nomacorc in action, purchase a bottle of
> Rosemount wine.

Yes, you're right. I was thinking of the other corks. Thanks for the
Rosemount description. Now I know what you're talking about.

>
> Without pointing a specifically accusing finger, I'd have to question
> the quality of any natty cork handled second hand. When I've ordered
> natties, they would be adjusted at the vendor for moisture content and
> sulfited just prior to shipping. These would have an obvious shelf
> life (less than 4 months) after which they started to loose the
> elasticity and the SO2 aroma. A fresh bag of corks would nearly knock
> you out with SO2 gas.
>
> clyde

Hmm, that's a very good point. The bags of 25 I purchased from PI were not
sealed - just plastic bags stapled closed. They certainly seemed pliant
enough and went into the bottle just fine, but there was no SO2 aroma at
all. I suspect at most home winemaking shops, most of the corks are in a
similar state. Do corks go bad if they dry out too much? Can they not be
rehydrated in a humid atmosphere prior to use?

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

(Clyde Gill) wrote in message . com>...
> > I wonder if we have forgotten how to dial telephones now that we have the
> > internet so available! :-)
> >
>
> Yes, indeed. I also have trouble using a pencil. Almost as much
> trouble as those trying to read my handwriting!!


Well, it sort of misses the point to have a website without enough
information on your products. PLUS, in general, I have found over the
years most over the phone (and email) help to be rotten ... not
talking specific comppanies, so I avoid the phone like the plague,
especially since I would during phone hours and don't have time to
talk. At leats with email you don't waste as much time or long
distance calls.

NNed

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> > I'm fortunate to have a PI store location here in Fargo. I just had a
> > discussion recently about their corks. I am not a big fan of
synthetics -
> > mainly because the traditional cork screws don't do a good job of
getting
> > them out.
>
> Reading this, I have to wonder if you're not talking about
> Supremecorqs. The Nomacorc (and Neocorc) style closure is quite
> different and functions almost imperceptibly the same as a natty
> cork.... without the taint or leakage!

Hi, Clyde -

You might be interested to know that I just bottled 400 cases under
Supremecorq - but it's their new composition. It looks a lot like natural
cork, and doesn't give my corkscrew the problems that the earlier versions
did. Also, it can be reinserted into the bottle by hand with little
difficulty.

I too am interested in the SO2 scalping issue. So far, I don't detect any
decline in the free SO2 level or apparent change in the wine. I'll try to
remember to send you a sample.

Please send Katie my regards.

Tom S

Hi Ed,
I'm not sure, it could be the vendors we have used, I've wondered
about that too.

Most of my natural corks came from Presque Isle and were either from
APM or Scott. Maybe it's really a quality control issue with
processing, from what I remember people were leaning toward bleaching
corks being a bad idea and maybe APM and Scott do not do that. Both
have websites so they could answer that.

I live near both of these suppliers so I can actually see and feel
what I'm getting before hand. If the cork looks too white or too brown
I don't buy it. If they are not soft enough to squeeze a bit I don't
want them either. Every good cork I every bought was in a sealed bag
gassed with SO2, it will knock you over when you open it. I'm not
concerned with supplies from either Scott or APM, I've never had
issues with either. I'm not saying other vendors are not as good
either, just that I have never used them.

I started tearing corks apart years ago to find out the
characteristics of the ones we liked versus the ones we were less
satisfied with. We noticed the good corks stayed soft even after
years in the bottle, but I doubt that is significant. I tear a store
bought wines cork apart too and a lot of them were pretty hard. None
broke with hard edges though, so that may be important.

Maybe we are just getting really well grown and preped bark, there is
an art to making corks, just like winemaking. I know you want to use
mature trees and let the bark weather once stripped, maybe the cheaper
ones are skipping a step to keep things lower price wise. All of this
is speculation though, I'm really not sure why our numbers are better.

Not to sound too jaded, but I sometimes wonder if some of this is
marketing hipe. No offense to marketing people in general, but if
synthetics were cheaper and I did not want to appear to be cheapening
my product, one way to go is to say the old way is just not good
enough for me. I'm older so in the 'older is better until proven
otherwise' category. Just call me 'doubting Joseph'. ;o)

On a more serious note, cork taint is real, but for whatever reason we
have not been plagued with it. I would never fault a commercial winery
for protecting that investment of effort, time and money on the wines,
they may never get the chance to recover from a run of bad supplies of
any type.

Regards,
Joe


"Ed Marks" > wrote in message >...
> Joe,
>
> Thanks for the great post summarzing your results. These are the two
> vendors I typically use and have consistently gotten good products.
>
> Why do you think you've had such good luck with very few tainted bottles
> using natural corks? This seems to be such a big deal in the wine industry
> now. I've had not problems so far but am leaning towards switching to
> Nomacorc or Neocork to avoid what hasn't been my problem, yet.
>
> Ed
>
>

Joe,

You're lucky you live near these suppliers and can go see the products in
person before you buy.

There probably is some marketing hype going on here, but I know I've opened
my fair share of tainted commercial bottles. I'm sure there are differences
in the quality of raw materials and processing, as you say just as in
winemaking, and perhaps that's the difference. I think for now I'll
continue to use my natural corks from the suppliers I've used before, and
try some with the Nomocorcs and Neocorcs to see how wines develop with
those.

Ed


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi Ed,
> I'm not sure, it could be the vendors we have used, I've wondered
> about that too.
>
> Most of my natural corks came from Presque Isle and were either from
> APM or Scott. Maybe it's really a quality control issue with
> processing, from what I remember people were leaning toward bleaching
> corks being a bad idea and maybe APM and Scott do not do that. Both
> have websites so they could answer that.
>

> I suspect at most home winemaking shops, most of the corks are in a
> similar state.

Yes, I have the same suspicion. Not sure we can blame the shop
owners. They are a tricky material to deal with. Hundreds of years
and yet still there's kinks in the system!


> Do corks go bad if they dry out too much? Can they not be
> rehydrated in a humid atmosphere prior to use?

I don't really know that much about it Greg. Just enough to be
dangerous. But from what I do know, it would appear that to some
extent they can dry out and be rehydrated. As already mentioned, the
two suppliers I purchased from would claim such a procedure. One of
the things I don't know is whether they get treated with silicon/wax
before or after the hydration.

clyde

>
>
> Well, it sort of misses the point to have a website without enough
> information on your products. PLUS, in general, I have found over the
> years most over the phone (and email) help to be rotten ... not
> talking specific comppanies, so I avoid the phone like the plague,
> especially since I would during phone hours and don't have time to
> talk. At leats with email you don't waste as much time or long
> distance calls.
>
> NNed

I quite agree Ned. It seems like such an easy task: displaying facts
on a website INCLUDING prices! And most companies pay someone to man
a phone, why can't they pay someone to answer email. Those companies
that do respond promptly AND completely by email get my business. We
do over 90% of our B2B online. Not only is there cost savings, but
there's always a record of the correspondence.

And on the other side of the fence, we do our best to keep an updated,
dynamic website AND provide immediate, personable response via email.
It seems to be paying off and we are getting a substantial (relative
to our size and age) amount of online traffic/business.

clyde

> Hi, Clyde -
>
> You might be interested to know that I just bottled 400 cases under
> Supremecorq - but it's their new composition. It looks a lot like natural
> cork, and doesn't give my corkscrew the problems that the earlier versions
> did. Also, it can be reinserted into the bottle by hand with little
> difficulty.
>

That is interesting TomS, on multiple fronts. I was not aware that
Supremecorq had a new product. Just glanced at their website and saw
nothing there. I also just spoke with the folks of Scott Lab last
month and they didn't make mention. In their defense, I had them
pinned with a bunch of questions on their riddling aid products.

Another person I spoke with from your 'hood (relatively) last month
was Dr. Gump. He has a couple of studies done both at Fresno and at
Estancia concerning syns. You might find the data of interest,
especially the Estancia study. I know I did and the timing was
impeccable. I had just conducted our most comprehensive tasting just
prior to attending his lecture at our conference. I took it all as a
sign and have now taken the dive. Our first order showed up this
week.

Do you plan on giving your wine some time in the bottle before
releasing it?

We just opened a '99 version of my BF a couple weeks ago. Easily the
proudest moment of my career. In front of all the family, beautiful
gulf shrimp dinner that kT's 'rents hand delivered from 'bama. It
seemed that the fruit was more pronounced than ever and the oak had
migrated into a tantilizing spice mix that all married well with the
now silky texture. Biggest problem: it was my last bottle! My
enthusiasm may have been somewhat amplified due to the fact that it
wasn't corked!!

> I too am interested in the SO2 scalping issue. So far, I don't detect any
> decline in the free SO2 level or apparent change in the wine. I'll try to
> remember to send you a sample.
>

Their claims are that the problem has been solved, even with their
original corqs, though it's difficult to get them to admit that there
was an original problem!!


> Please send Katie my regards.
>

Consider it done.

good health,

clyde

>
> Please send Katie my regards.
>
> Tom S

Just talking to kT about our conversation and she asked (and I quote),
"Yumm, how do we get some of his wine?!?!"

clyde

Wow, a lot of info.. thanks for the input, though I am having a
difficult time deciding, and a pressing need to bottle! I wanted to
buy enough to last for some batches, over the course of several
months, but my batches arn't too big. Let's say 100 corks for this
order. WIll the Nomacorks (or other synthetics) deteriorate? Any
special storage needed?

Oh, and I just looked at the G&G site again, ready to buy some of
these, and it says not recommended for Italian brass jawed floor
corkers... just what I have. Good grief! WHy not?

And I have smaller bottles too so need various sizes. I just love the
feel, look and tradition of all natural corks, and there's the issues
of air escaping, "breathing" over time whatever. But like all of us I
hate to take chances. I've only bottled a few batches and ran into
this possible problem.

Nned

I normally buy corks from Amorim who is the largest supplier in the
US.
Having made the comment about their size you naturally would believe
they have some expertise. In speaking with the tech dept. there they
will tell you that corks DO have a limited shelf life and do NOT
recommend re-hydrating corks ever.
I have mine broken down into packages of 500 to help with the shelf
life issue. The bags are SO2 filled so once we open them we use them.

Now you have what little info I have regarding this discussion.

Dave Stacy


On 12 Mar 2004 07:14:06 -0800, (Clyde Gill)
wrote:

>> I suspect at most home winemaking shops, most of the corks are in a
>> similar state.
>
>Yes, I have the same suspicion. Not sure we can blame the shop
>owners. They are a tricky material to deal with. Hundreds of years
>and yet still there's kinks in the system!
>
>
>> Do corks go bad if they dry out too much? Can they not be
>> rehydrated in a humid atmosphere prior to use?
>
>I don't really know that much about it Greg. Just enough to be
>dangerous. But from what I do know, it would appear that to some
>extent they can dry out and be rehydrated. As already mentioned, the
>two suppliers I purchased from would claim such a procedure. One of
>the things I don't know is whether they get treated with silicon/wax
>before or after the hydration.
>
>clyde

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> I was not aware that
> Supremecorq had a new product. Just glanced at their website and saw
> nothing there. I also just spoke with the folks of Scott Lab last
> month and they didn't make mention.

I spoke directly with the factory rep. He was full of useful info -
including the fact that they have ongoing research going on developing and
improving their product, as well as winery participation in their long term
studies.

> Do you plan on giving your wine some time in the bottle before
> releasing it?

As much as I can stand to afford. :^/
It seems to need ~6 months, at least.

> We just opened a '99 version of my BF a couple weeks ago. Easily the
> proudest moment of my career. In front of all the family, beautiful
> gulf shrimp dinner that kT's 'rents hand delivered from 'bama. It
> seemed that the fruit was more pronounced than ever and the oak had
> migrated into a tantilizing spice mix that all married well with the
> now silky texture. Biggest problem: it was my last bottle!

I think that was the wine I tasted when I was back there. I still think you
ought to focus on making _only_ that; it's easily the best wine in
Missouri - reds included. OTOH, you know your customers better than I do.

> Their claims are that the problem has been solved, even with their
> original corqs, though it's difficult to get them to admit that there
> was an original problem!!

That's certainly understandable within the context of our litigious society.
>:^[

Tom S

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> Just talking to kT about our conversation and she asked (and I quote),
> "Yumm, how do we get some of his wine?!?!"

By Fedex, of course! I'd love to hand carry it, but I can't spare the time
or $$. Bummer.

I'll get some into the post as soon as I can, but it might be awhile. I'm
kind of busy at the moment.

Tom S

> talking specific comppanies, so I avoid the phone like the plague,
> especially since I would during phone hours and don't have time to
> talk. At leats with email you don't waste as much time or long


You DO spend a boat load more time typing something than saying it, though!
Keep that in mind. Plus, there;s is no substitute for voice communication
and mostly, inter-personal communiqué.

BTW, I do agree that some sites should be posting more detailed info on the
web site you're trying to purchase from.

"Ned" > wrote in message
om...
> (Clyde Gill) wrote in message
. com>...
> > > I wonder if we have forgotten how to dial telephones now that we have
the
> > > internet so available! :-)
> > >
> >
> > Yes, indeed. I also have trouble using a pencil. Almost as much
> > trouble as those trying to read my handwriting!!
>
>
> Well, it sort of misses the point to have a website without enough
> information on your products. PLUS, in general, I have found over the
> years most over the phone (and email) help to be rotten ... not
> talking specific comppanies, so I avoid the phone like the plague,
> especially since I would during phone hours and don't have time to
> talk. At leats with email you don't waste as much time or long
> distance calls.
>
> NNed

I tried to keep corks "moist" by doing a humidor SO2 thing and ended up
tossing about $25 worth of 100 first quality corks because of mold. I now
just keep them in their bag with the end closed well. Might be stupid, but I
am still not soaking them in sulfite before bottling but the way we go
through our 50 gallons per year, it doesn't last long.

As a matter of fact, I seek out large volume screw cap bottles for our
personal consumption. I clean them well and reuse the caps and haven't had
issues yet. Heck, this stuff is drunk within 12 months of bottling so I
believe I'd need a much more apparent problem than O2 getting by to know it
will affect the wine in 12 months.

"Ned" > wrote in message
om...
> Does anyone else know if it might be somehting else? I thought a lot
> of people were doing the SO2 thing to keep nasties like mold away...
> not just plain water.
>
> From places like PI that don't list any details (most places don't)
> about their corks, how do you know what quality you are getting? Is
> there a grading system or the like I can find out about? WHo else
> carries corks IN STOCK and at the most copmpetitive proces, for
> comparable quality.
>
> Do these synthetic corks have cork centers or plastic right through?
>
> NNed
>
>
> "Tom S" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Ned" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I went to bottle some wine yesterday and noticed something odd about a
> > > lot of the corks I have. THey were a very good quality cork bought
> > > some tome ago from St. Pats, natural ones, and since opneing have been
> > > storing them in a mini humidor type thing as many people here seem to
> > > do (a little water with SO2 in a small container placed inside a
> > > larger one).
> > >
> > > THere corks had various size bluish green spontches inside them, I
> > > even cut some open. Sort of like a bruised fruit. What is it and can
> > > I use them? I never noticed this before, though I am fairly new to
> > > the bottling.
> >
> > Sounds like mold to me. Personally, I'd toss them out and buy new. I
> > recommend that you store them dry in future, rinse them in warm water
and
> > drip dry them just before using. Storing in a humid environment is
asking
> > for mold.
> >
> > Tom S

I'm bumping this up to see if anyone has help on these last couple
questions/concenrs.

Thanks,

NNed

(Ned) wrote in message . com>...
> Wow, a lot of info.. thanks for the input, though I am having a
> difficult time deciding, and a pressing need to bottle! I wanted to
> buy enough to last for some batches, over the course of several
> months, but my batches arn't too big. Let's say 100 corks for this
> order. WIll the Nomacorks (or other synthetics) deteriorate? Any
> special storage needed?
>
> Oh, and I just looked at the G&G site again, ready to buy some of
> these, and it says not recommended for Italian brass jawed floor
> corkers... just what I have. Good grief! WHy not?
>
> And I have smaller bottles too so need various sizes. I just love the
> feel, look and tradition of all natural corks, and there's the issues
> of air escaping, "breathing" over time whatever. But like all of us I
> hate to take chances. I've only bottled a few batches and ran into
> this possible problem.
>
> Nned

I don't know about Neocork, but the Nomocorc web site says:

Nomacorc Storage Guidelines
a.. Temperatu 15° to 20° C
b.. Well ventilated area
c.. Out of direct sunlight
d.. Away from volatile chemicals
e.. Keep bags sealed
Can Nomacorcs be used with home winery equipment?


Yes, Nomacorcs are widely used with home winery equipment today.
What is the shelf life for unbottled Nomacorc closures?


Recommendation is 1 year. After 1 year further testing is recommended.

I don't know why the G&G web site says not recommended for brass jaws, but I
have the Portugese version (non-brass) and am very happy with it and have no
problems with natural corks or now with synthetics. For now, I'll continue
using the highest quality natural corks I can buy, and will do some bottles
from each batch with synthetics to see how they compare over time.

Ed


"Ned" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm bumping this up to see if anyone has help on these last couple
> questions/concenrs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> NNed
>
>

I've only used Nomacork for a year so can't speak to long term
storage. I intend to keep wine under them for up to 6 years so I hope
that's not an issue... You can buy a bag of 100 from G&G, maybe start
out with enough to get you going.

The brass jaw thing is related to misadjusted jaws cutting corks, they
tend to do that if not set right. I just took mine apart and fixed
it, it annoyed me. They are under a lot of compressive force, so
don't do this unless you are comfortable with mechanics... It's
usually one jaw cocking as you move it, you can see it twist at the
ned of stroke, I just filed mine as necessary to fix it.
Regards,
Joe




(Ned) wrote in message . com>...
> I'm bumping this up to see if anyone has help on these last couple
> questions/concenrs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> NNed
>
> (Ned) wrote in message . com>...
> > Wow, a lot of info.. thanks for the input, though I am having a
> > difficult time deciding, and a pressing need to bottle! I wanted to
> > buy enough to last for some batches, over the course of several
> > months, but my batches arn't too big. Let's say 100 corks for this
> > order. WIll the Nomacorks (or other synthetics) deteriorate? Any
> > special storage needed?
> >
> > Oh, and I just looked at the G&G site again, ready to buy some of
> > these, and it says not recommended for Italian brass jawed floor
> > corkers... just what I have. Good grief! WHy not?
> >
> > And I have smaller bottles too so need various sizes. I just love the
> > feel, look and tradition of all natural corks, and there's the issues
> > of air escaping, "breathing" over time whatever. But like all of us I
> > hate to take chances. I've only bottled a few batches and ran into
> > this possible problem.
> >
> > Nned

Hi Joe

Sorry to go off topic but the jaws on my floor corker are getting out of
line. They make a click sound when I'm inserting a cork. You can see the
brass jaws slightly cutting into each other.
Could you provide more detail on how you adjust them?


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> I've only used Nomacork for a year so can't speak to long term
> storage. I intend to keep wine under them for up to 6 years so I hope
> that's not an issue... You can buy a bag of 100 from G&G, maybe start
> out with enough to get you going.
>
> The brass jaw thing is related to misadjusted jaws cutting corks, they
> tend to do that if not set right. I just took mine apart and fixed
> it, it annoyed me. They are under a lot of compressive force, so
> don't do this unless you are comfortable with mechanics... It's
> usually one jaw cocking as you move it, you can see it twist at the
> ned of stroke, I just filed mine as necessary to fix it.
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> (Ned) wrote in message
. com>...
> > I'm bumping this up to see if anyone has help on these last couple
> > questions/concenrs.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > NNed
> >
> > (Ned) wrote in message
. com>...
> > > Wow, a lot of info.. thanks for the input, though I am having a
> > > difficult time deciding, and a pressing need to bottle! I wanted to
> > > buy enough to last for some batches, over the course of several
> > > months, but my batches arn't too big. Let's say 100 corks for this
> > > order. WIll the Nomacorks (or other synthetics) deteriorate? Any
> > > special storage needed?
> > >
> > > Oh, and I just looked at the G&G site again, ready to buy some of
> > > these, and it says not recommended for Italian brass jawed floor
> > > corkers... just what I have. Good grief! WHy not?
> > >
> > > And I have smaller bottles too so need various sizes. I just love the
> > > feel, look and tradition of all natural corks, and there's the issues
> > > of air escaping, "breathing" over time whatever. But like all of us I
> > > hate to take chances. I've only bottled a few batches and ran into
> > > this possible problem.
> > >
> > > Nned

Hi Joe
Mine is a Ferrari, it had a bad habit of cocking one of the jaws on
'overstroke'. As you watch it move you will see 1 jaw is fixed and 3
slide. I watched carefully and noticed two things.

One, it compressed almost all of the way into the stroke then on the
last few inches of arm motion it relaxes the compression just a bit.
Maybe that is intentional, I don't know.

Two, during that part of the stroke I could see one jaw start to pull
away from the other three if you looked very closely at the
circumference of the hole it forms.

(An easier way to see what you are into is just put a cork it and look
for the area where it gets creased.)

I marked all 4 jaws so I knew how it was originally put together and
then marked the corker body too.

At that point I just took it apart and laid each part on a flat
surface to figure out which ones were a little rounded off. It's made
of hollow brass so it's easier to screw it up than fix it, so be very
deliberate in any adjustments, maybe even move things around first
before filing any imperfections.

It's under a large amount of force so be careful taking it apart, it's
not something I want to do again... The cure is as bad as the
disease...

While its apart, lube everything. I also drilled a drain hole in the
'bottle neck locator dimple' to get any cork drainage out faster. I
made mine 1/8".

Hope that helps. For what it's worth, that cheaper portuguese corker
does not do this, I've never taken one of those apart and we have
several in use among a few people. I have both corkers now.

My neighbor and I modified my Ferrari to do sparkling wine corks too.
All we really changed was added a foot bar to the bottom of the bottle
stand. I can push the stand down with it after I get the cork in part
way. It's not the easist way to do that type of cork, but it's only
$100 and a good one is at least 10 times that.
Regards,
Joe

> Sorry to go off topic but the jaws on my floor corker are getting out of
> line. They make a click sound when I'm inserting a cork. You can see the
> brass jaws slightly cutting into each other.
> Could you provide more detail on how you adjust them?

I am not sure what mine is. It is a floor corker, brass jaws and works
pretty well?
Now I get a click noise when I bring the arm up. It seems the jaws are not
sliding smoothly.
I put a couple of drops of light oil on the jaws and now it seems better.
The jaws get dirty so I have been wiping them with a cloth.

thanks for your good advice

Joe

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi Joe
> Mine is a Ferrari, it had a bad habit of cocking one of the jaws on
> 'overstroke'. As you watch it move you will see 1 jaw is fixed and 3
> slide. I watched carefully and noticed two things.
>
> One, it compressed almost all of the way into the stroke then on the
> last few inches of arm motion it relaxes the compression just a bit.
> Maybe that is intentional, I don't know.
>
> Two, during that part of the stroke I could see one jaw start to pull
> away from the other three if you looked very closely at the
> circumference of the hole it forms.
>
> (An easier way to see what you are into is just put a cork it and look
> for the area where it gets creased.)
>
> I marked all 4 jaws so I knew how it was originally put together and
> then marked the corker body too.
>
> At that point I just took it apart and laid each part on a flat
> surface to figure out which ones were a little rounded off. It's made
> of hollow brass so it's easier to screw it up than fix it, so be very
> deliberate in any adjustments, maybe even move things around first
> before filing any imperfections.
>
> It's under a large amount of force so be careful taking it apart, it's
> not something I want to do again... The cure is as bad as the
> disease...
>
> While its apart, lube everything. I also drilled a drain hole in the
> 'bottle neck locator dimple' to get any cork drainage out faster. I
> made mine 1/8".
>
> Hope that helps. For what it's worth, that cheaper portuguese corker
> does not do this, I've never taken one of those apart and we have
> several in use among a few people. I have both corkers now.
>
> My neighbor and I modified my Ferrari to do sparkling wine corks too.
> All we really changed was added a foot bar to the bottom of the bottle
> stand. I can push the stand down with it after I get the cork in part
> way. It's not the easist way to do that type of cork, but it's only
> $100 and a good one is at least 10 times that.
> Regards,
> Joe
>
> > Sorry to go off topic but the jaws on my floor corker are getting out of
> > line. They make a click sound when I'm inserting a cork. You can see
the
> > brass jaws slightly cutting into each other.
> > Could you provide more detail on how you adjust them?

Joe

I too have 1 fixed jaw and 3 that slide. The jaws compress until at the end
they relax a bit. (Maybe to let go of the cork as it is pushed in the last
bit.).


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi Joe
> Mine is a Ferrari, it had a bad habit of cocking one of the jaws on
> 'overstroke'. As you watch it move you will see 1 jaw is fixed and 3
> slide. I watched carefully and noticed two things.
>
> One, it compressed almost all of the way into the stroke then on the
> last few inches of arm motion it relaxes the compression just a bit.
> Maybe that is intentional, I don't know.
>
> Two, during that part of the stroke I could see one jaw start to pull
> away from the other three if you looked very closely at the
> circumference of the hole it forms.
>
> (An easier way to see what you are into is just put a cork it and look
> for the area where it gets creased.)
>
> I marked all 4 jaws so I knew how it was originally put together and
> then marked the corker body too.
>
> At that point I just took it apart and laid each part on a flat
> surface to figure out which ones were a little rounded off. It's made
> of hollow brass so it's easier to screw it up than fix it, so be very
> deliberate in any adjustments, maybe even move things around first
> before filing any imperfections.
>
> It's under a large amount of force so be careful taking it apart, it's
> not something I want to do again... The cure is as bad as the
> disease...
>
> While its apart, lube everything. I also drilled a drain hole in the
> 'bottle neck locator dimple' to get any cork drainage out faster. I
> made mine 1/8".
>
> Hope that helps. For what it's worth, that cheaper portuguese corker
> does not do this, I've never taken one of those apart and we have
> several in use among a few people. I have both corkers now.
>
> My neighbor and I modified my Ferrari to do sparkling wine corks too.
> All we really changed was added a foot bar to the bottom of the bottle
> stand. I can push the stand down with it after I get the cork in part
> way. It's not the easist way to do that type of cork, but it's only
> $100 and a good one is at least 10 times that.
> Regards,
> Joe
>
> > Sorry to go off topic but the jaws on my floor corker are getting out of
> > line. They make a click sound when I'm inserting a cork. You can see
the
> > brass jaws slightly cutting into each other.
> > Could you provide more detail on how you adjust them?