Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and fresh
grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they are
mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to some
option but right now kits are a good start.
I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
best of the kits?

Thanks,
Mark

Mark,

I buy the Selection Limited edition reds from BK every year, which are 16
litre kits to make 23 litres (5 gals imp or 6 gals US) these kits in UK used
to be about £50 each but the price has now risen to £57 each. Last year I
bought my first Selection Estate series red -- a Lodi Zinfandel Old Vines
red kit at £75 but I only started it in September and it is still sitting
undisturbed, bulk aging so I can't comment.
In UK there is no other kit as yet available that is of the same quality (or
price range).
I make much less wine than I used to and make more kit wines -- space in my
small flat ( apartment) being the limiting factor. I have been making the
Selection series reds for a fair few years now since they first became
available in UK.

To be honest I have become increasingly critical of kit reds as time has
gone on. I am a type 2 diabetic ( dietary control only) and my consumption
of wine has been savagely curtailed and perhaps that is why I am more
appreciative of the wine when I have my permitted occasional bottle.

My white wine kits ( at about 1/2 the cost of the Selection red kits)
produce far superior wines which are recognisable as from within their
varietal grape type. In particular my Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc are very
typical!

The reds -- well as I said, I only have one bottle per week but I am
increasingly dissatisfied with the end results of a year bulk aging before
bottling. My criticism is, as ever, that "cooked " taste and, increasingly,
a lack of character, bland, and lack of tannin. The wines are full of fruit
flavour but just not up the comparison with an inexpensive red bought from
a good supermarket wine section.
I have just sampled my first bottle of limited edition Syrah/Mouvedre made
in Spring last year. The blurb on BK's back label states --"..... this
elegant red wine is rich and complex, showing strong tannins and earthy
character ....."
Well no it isn't! Fruity but totally lacking in "strong tannins" and where
is that "earthy character". It was like drinking a tepid fruit soup that
needed the addition of chilli gin to bring out its flavours. I certainly
would not inflict it on any guest of mine. I have checked my records and
find that I may not have added extra tannin at the initial fermentation
stage. I started doing that with my Selection kits a couple of years ago to
try and improve the mouth of my wines and I perceive some benefit -- but it
does tend to be a hit and miss affair.
My criticism of kit reds is not confined to BK Selection , it is just the
Selection kits are ( IMHO) the best available in UK. I think my best result
is BK Selection Rioja. One I did about 4 years ago is finished now but
after the second year in bottle was probably the best I have tasted but
still lacked that "finish"

Sorry this has been so long a response. Perhaps, when a method of colour
extraction of red grapes is "invented" that does not involve "boiling" the
fruit, the reds will improve.

I just wish I could get red wine grapes and/or fresh red grape juice in UK!

Hope it helps.


--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
. com...
> Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and fresh
> grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
are
> mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to some
> option but right now kits are a good start.
> I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> best of the kits?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>

Thanks for your reply. I only got the Merlot kit because it is my fathers
favorite wine. I plan to start another batch of wine of a white variety and
want to get the best kit to start with and then make any additions that
people have found help the kit compete with store bought wines.

Mark


"Pinky" > wrote in message
...
> Mark,
>
> I buy the Selection Limited edition reds from BK every year, which are 16
> litre kits to make 23 litres (5 gals imp or 6 gals US) these kits in UK
used
> to be about £50 each but the price has now risen to £57 each. Last year I
> bought my first Selection Estate series red -- a Lodi Zinfandel Old
Vines
> red kit at £75 but I only started it in September and it is still sitting
> undisturbed, bulk aging so I can't comment.
> In UK there is no other kit as yet available that is of the same quality
(or
> price range).
> I make much less wine than I used to and make more kit wines -- space in
my
> small flat ( apartment) being the limiting factor. I have been making the
> Selection series reds for a fair few years now since they first became
> available in UK.
>
> To be honest I have become increasingly critical of kit reds as time has
> gone on. I am a type 2 diabetic ( dietary control only) and my consumption
> of wine has been savagely curtailed and perhaps that is why I am more
> appreciative of the wine when I have my permitted occasional bottle.
>
> My white wine kits ( at about 1/2 the cost of the Selection red kits)
> produce far superior wines which are recognisable as from within their
> varietal grape type. In particular my Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc are
very
> typical!
>
> The reds -- well as I said, I only have one bottle per week but I am
> increasingly dissatisfied with the end results of a year bulk aging before
> bottling. My criticism is, as ever, that "cooked " taste and,
increasingly,
> a lack of character, bland, and lack of tannin. The wines are full of
fruit
> flavour but just not up the comparison with an inexpensive red bought
from
> a good supermarket wine section.
> I have just sampled my first bottle of limited edition Syrah/Mouvedre made
> in Spring last year. The blurb on BK's back label states --"..... this
> elegant red wine is rich and complex, showing strong tannins and earthy
> character ....."
> Well no it isn't! Fruity but totally lacking in "strong tannins" and where
> is that "earthy character". It was like drinking a tepid fruit soup that
> needed the addition of chilli gin to bring out its flavours. I certainly
> would not inflict it on any guest of mine. I have checked my records and
> find that I may not have added extra tannin at the initial fermentation
> stage. I started doing that with my Selection kits a couple of years ago
to
> try and improve the mouth of my wines and I perceive some benefit -- but
it
> does tend to be a hit and miss affair.
> My criticism of kit reds is not confined to BK Selection , it is just the
> Selection kits are ( IMHO) the best available in UK. I think my best
result
> is BK Selection Rioja. One I did about 4 years ago is finished now but
> after the second year in bottle was probably the best I have tasted but
> still lacked that "finish"
>
> Sorry this has been so long a response. Perhaps, when a method of colour
> extraction of red grapes is "invented" that does not involve "boiling"
the
> fruit, the reds will improve.
>
> I just wish I could get red wine grapes and/or fresh red grape juice in
UK!
>
> Hope it helps.
>
>
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
> . com...
> > Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and
fresh
> > grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
> are
> > mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to
some
> > option but right now kits are a good start.
> > I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> > best of the kits?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
>

BK ( they have renamed themselves "Winexpert Inc" for some obscure marketing
reason) Selection Murray River Reserve is excellent and ages well. I can't
get it any more in UK!!!

However with white wine kits I mainly use a UK brand called "Beaverdale",
( I suspect made by BK for the supplier in UK since the vendor is the agent
for BK products in UK)), which retail at about £33 -- i.e. at about half
the price I pay for Selection reds. I am very satisfied with the results I
get as I indicated in my previous post.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
.com...
> Thanks for your reply. I only got the Merlot kit because it is my fathers
> favorite wine. I plan to start another batch of wine of a white variety
and
> want to get the best kit to start with and then make any additions that
> people have found help the kit compete with store bought wines.
>
> Mark

BK is very good in my opinion, I've tried a few from the top 3 selections:
http://www.winexpert.com/index.cfm/f...e/products.cfm
always got great results...
Louise)

"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
.com...
> Thanks for your reply. I only got the Merlot kit because it is my fathers
> favorite wine. I plan to start another batch of wine of a white variety
and
> want to get the best kit to start with and then make any additions that
> people have found help the kit compete with store bought wines.
>
> Mark
>
>
> "Pinky" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Mark,
> >
> > I buy the Selection Limited edition reds from BK every year, which are
16
> > litre kits to make 23 litres (5 gals imp or 6 gals US) these kits in UK
> used
> > to be about £50 each but the price has now risen to £57 each. Last year
I
> > bought my first Selection Estate series red -- a Lodi Zinfandel Old
> Vines
> > red kit at £75 but I only started it in September and it is still
sitting
> > undisturbed, bulk aging so I can't comment.
> > In UK there is no other kit as yet available that is of the same quality
> (or
> > price range).
> > I make much less wine than I used to and make more kit wines -- space in
> my
> > small flat ( apartment) being the limiting factor. I have been making
the
> > Selection series reds for a fair few years now since they first became
> > available in UK.
> >
> > To be honest I have become increasingly critical of kit reds as time has
> > gone on. I am a type 2 diabetic ( dietary control only) and my
consumption
> > of wine has been savagely curtailed and perhaps that is why I am more
> > appreciative of the wine when I have my permitted occasional bottle.
> >
> > My white wine kits ( at about 1/2 the cost of the Selection red kits)
> > produce far superior wines which are recognisable as from within their
> > varietal grape type. In particular my Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc are
> very
> > typical!
> >
> > The reds -- well as I said, I only have one bottle per week but I am
> > increasingly dissatisfied with the end results of a year bulk aging
before
> > bottling. My criticism is, as ever, that "cooked " taste and,
> increasingly,
> > a lack of character, bland, and lack of tannin. The wines are full of
> fruit
> > flavour but just not up the comparison with an inexpensive red bought
> from
> > a good supermarket wine section.
> > I have just sampled my first bottle of limited edition Syrah/Mouvedre
made
> > in Spring last year. The blurb on BK's back label states --"..... this
> > elegant red wine is rich and complex, showing strong tannins and earthy
> > character ....."
> > Well no it isn't! Fruity but totally lacking in "strong tannins" and
where
> > is that "earthy character". It was like drinking a tepid fruit soup that
> > needed the addition of chilli gin to bring out its flavours. I certainly
> > would not inflict it on any guest of mine. I have checked my records and
> > find that I may not have added extra tannin at the initial fermentation
> > stage. I started doing that with my Selection kits a couple of years ago
> to
> > try and improve the mouth of my wines and I perceive some benefit -- but
> it
> > does tend to be a hit and miss affair.
> > My criticism of kit reds is not confined to BK Selection , it is just
the
> > Selection kits are ( IMHO) the best available in UK. I think my best
> result
> > is BK Selection Rioja. One I did about 4 years ago is finished now but
> > after the second year in bottle was probably the best I have tasted but
> > still lacked that "finish"
> >
> > Sorry this has been so long a response. Perhaps, when a method of colour
> > extraction of red grapes is "invented" that does not involve "boiling"
> the
> > fruit, the reds will improve.
> >
> > I just wish I could get red wine grapes and/or fresh red grape juice in
> UK!
> >
> > Hope it helps.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Trevor A Panther
> > In South Yorkshire, England
> > Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> > All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> > Anti Virus for your protection too!
> > "Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > > Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and
> fresh
> > > grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but
they
> > are
> > > mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to
> some
> > > option but right now kits are a good start.
> > > I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered
the
> > > best of the kits?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Mark
Winexpert's (Brew King) Estate series is probably the best on the market. I
have tried several kits and the BK Estate series is the best. Just go to
www.winexpert.com and you can see them there. Your local wine maiing supply
company can get them for you.

Dan



"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
. com...
> Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and fresh
> grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
are
> mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to some
> option but right now kits are a good start.
> I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> best of the kits?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>

Mark I forgot to add. Besides being just my opinion about the Estate series,
Technical Services Manager Tim Vadergrift from Winexpert says it their top
of the line kit.
Dan


"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
. com...
> Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and fresh
> grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
are
> mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to some
> option but right now kits are a good start.
> I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> best of the kits?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>

For white wines BK and Spagnols are both good. I personally prefer
Spagnols. For red wines, I have not found one that I would recommend.

Ray

"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
. com...
> Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and fresh
> grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
are
> mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to some
> option but right now kits are a good start.
> I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> best of the kits?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
>

Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits? They
seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when making
kits.

I racked my BK French Merlot last night and added 1oz of French Oak cubes to
start. The directions say to bottle in about 28-35 days, however I plan to
bulk age for at least four months. How much extra SO2 should I add in the
form of campden tablets to protect it for this long aging?

Mark


"Ray" > wrote in message
. ..
> For white wines BK and Spagnols are both good. I personally prefer
> Spagnols. For red wines, I have not found one that I would recommend.
>
> Ray
>
> "Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
> . com...
> > Who makes the best kits, money not being a concern? I live in NC and
fresh
> > grape juice just isn't an easy option. They do grow grapes here but they
> are
> > mostly either Muscadine or Scuppernong. More searching might lead to
some
> > option but right now kits are a good start.
> > I started with a BK Select French Merlot. What others are considered the
> > best of the kits?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
>
>

As a ball park figure without checking SO2 levels I would add 5 crushed and
dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and then
dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for at
least 6 months

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
.com...
> Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits?
They
> seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when
making
> kits.
>
> I racked my BK French Merlot last night and added 1oz of French Oak cubes
to
> start. The directions say to bottle in about 28-35 days, however I plan to
> bulk age for at least four months. How much extra SO2 should I add in the
> form of campden tablets to protect it for this long aging?
>
> Mark
>
<snip><snip>

As a ball park figure without checking SO2 levels I would add 5 crushed and
dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and then
dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for at
least 6 months

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
.com...
> Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits?
They
> seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when
making
> kits.
>
> I racked my BK French Merlot last night and added 1oz of French Oak cubes
to
> start. The directions say to bottle in about 28-35 days, however I plan to
> bulk age for at least four months. How much extra SO2 should I add in the
> form of campden tablets to protect it for this long aging?
>
> Mark
>
<snip><snip>

I plan to get one of those titator kits when I go to the homebrew store. The
only problem is that I have heard the margin of error in those is +/- 30ppm.
I'll probably do 3-5 tests and take an average of the results.

Mark


"Pinky" > wrote in message
...
> As a ball park figure without checking SO2 levels I would add 5 crushed
and
> dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and
then
> dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for at
> least 6 months
>
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits?
> They
> > seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when
> making
> > kits.
> >
> > I racked my BK French Merlot last night and added 1oz of French Oak
cubes
> to
> > start. The directions say to bottle in about 28-35 days, however I plan
to
> > bulk age for at least four months. How much extra SO2 should I add in
the
> > form of campden tablets to protect it for this long aging?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> <snip><snip>
>
>

"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message r.com>...
> I plan to get one of those titator kits when I go to the homebrew store. The
> only problem is that I have heard the margin of error in those is +/- 30ppm.
> I'll probably do 3-5 tests and take an average of the results.
>



Not that much, they are more in the 10-15ppm margin of error and on the + side.

Séb

"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message r.com>...
> I plan to get one of those titator kits when I go to the homebrew store. The
> only problem is that I have heard the margin of error in those is +/- 30ppm.
> I'll probably do 3-5 tests and take an average of the results.
>



Not that much, they are more in the 10-15ppm margin of error and on the + side.

Séb

"Mark Garwatoski" > wrote in message
.com...
> Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits?
They
> seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when
making
> kits.
>
>

Yes, I tried one of their high price kits a couple of years ago and did not
feel that it was any better than the Cellar Classic kits I have made. But
then it might have been me or the one kit I tried. One kit is not much of a
test. What I can say is that I have made a number of their Cellar Classic
kits and been very happy with them. I have not made any in the last year as
it is hard for me to get them here in Houston. In fact I remember the name
being Cellar Craft rather than Cellar Classic but that may be my bad memory.
My favorites have been the Gewürztraminer and Johannesburg Riesling. I have
made several batches of each.

Ray

"Pinky" wrote
> ...I would add 5 crushed and dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and then dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for atleast 6 months
>
2 questions:
1. What would happen if you added the «powder« to the carboy and stir
it well; would it not dissolve as well?
2. Why stir gently? When degassing, isn't better to stir like mad;
isn't it the idea with the Fizz-X?

TIA,
Guy

"Pinky" wrote
> ...I would add 5 crushed and dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and then dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for atleast 6 months
>
2 questions:
1. What would happen if you added the «powder« to the carboy and stir
it well; would it not dissolve as well?
2. Why stir gently? When degassing, isn't better to stir like mad;
isn't it the idea with the Fizz-X?

TIA,
Guy

1. I dissolve them separately to ensure that they do actually dissolve
completely and don't have any larger bits to lay dormant at the bottom of my
carboy. Certainly the type I use are not the easiest things to reduce to a
fine powder.

2. I degas by long term bulk aging and just don't believe that beating the
hell out of a new wine does it any good

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

"Guy Therrien" > wrote in message
om...
<snip> <snip>
> 2 questions:
> 1. What would happen if you added the «powder« to the carboy and stir
> it well; would it not dissolve as well?
> 2. Why stir gently? When degassing, isn't better to stir like mad;
> isn't it the idea with the Fizz-X?
>
> TIA,
> Guy

1. I dissolve them separately to ensure that they do actually dissolve
completely and don't have any larger bits to lay dormant at the bottom of my
carboy. Certainly the type I use are not the easiest things to reduce to a
fine powder.

2. I degas by long term bulk aging and just don't believe that beating the
hell out of a new wine does it any good

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

"Guy Therrien" > wrote in message
om...
<snip> <snip>
> 2 questions:
> 1. What would happen if you added the «powder« to the carboy and stir
> it well; would it not dissolve as well?
> 2. Why stir gently? When degassing, isn't better to stir like mad;
> isn't it the idea with the Fizz-X?
>
> TIA,
> Guy

"Pinky" wrote:
> I degas by long term bulk aging ...

Then I presume you keep the airlock on during that time to degass the
wine... for how long and at what temperature do you bulk age?

TIA,
Guy

"Richard Kovach" > wrote in message
om...
> Cellar Craft and Cellar Classic are not the same. The former is a
> company, the latter is a line of kits by RJSpagnols.
>

Thanks for clarifying the names and congealing my memory. I know what I
made was Spagnols so it must have been Cellar Classic. I cannot comment on
the Cellar Craft.

Ray

"Richard Kovach" > wrote in message
om...
> Cellar Craft and Cellar Classic are not the same. The former is a
> company, the latter is a line of kits by RJSpagnols.
>

Thanks for clarifying the names and congealing my memory. I know what I
made was Spagnols so it must have been Cellar Classic. I cannot comment on
the Cellar Craft.

Ray