Maybe a silly question

OK, I understand that sulfites have been used throughout history in wine
making but I have been curious as to how they did it. We have access to
purified refined versions of sulfites that are ancestors did not. Now
sulfur wicks and candles in barrels I can understand but meta bisulfites?
How would great great great grandpa Joe do it it the old country? Or go
back further how about the greeks?

Who's the resident chemical /historian?

Tom

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe a silly question
>
> OK, I understand that sulfites have been used throughout history in wine
> making but I have been curious as to how they did it. We have access to
> purified refined versions of sulfites that are ancestors did not. Now
> sulfur wicks and candles in barrels I can understand but meta bisulfites?
> How would great great great grandpa Joe do it it the old country? Or go
> back further how about the greeks?
>
> Who's the resident chemical /historian?

Here's a starting point (perhaps):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_dioxide I suspect that the Sulfates may
have been added as SO2, which can be readily produced from Sulfur. Which was
a very handy compound being used to treat wounds and make gunpowder It
would be interesting to know how the other compounds came into usage.

Steve

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe a silly question
>
> OK, I understand that sulfites have been used throughout history in wine
> making but I have been curious as to how they did it. We have access to
> purified refined versions of sulfites that are ancestors did not. Now
> sulfur wicks and candles in barrels I can understand but meta bisulfites?
> How would great great great grandpa Joe do it it the old country? Or go
> back further how about the greeks?
>
> Who's the resident chemical /historian?

Here's a starting point (perhaps):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_dioxide I suspect that the Sulfates may
have been added as SO2, which can be readily produced from Sulfur. Which was
a very handy compound being used to treat wounds and make gunpowder It
would be interesting to know how the other compounds came into usage.

Steve

On 7/30/04 12:54 PM, in article , "Tom"
> wrote:

> Maybe a silly question
>
> OK, I understand that sulfites have been used throughout history in wine
> making but I have been curious as to how they did it. We have access to
> purified refined versions of sulfites that are ancestors did not. Now
> sulfur wicks and candles in barrels I can understand but meta bisulfites?
> How would great great great grandpa Joe do it it the old country? Or go
> back further how about the greeks?
>
> Who's the resident chemical /historian?
>
> Tom
>
>

It is in the burning of sulfur that you produce sulfur dioxide (SO2). That
is the preservative in wine. SO2 is in equilibrium with metabisulfites in
solution (in wine). Most home winemakers use readily available
metabisulfites in powdered form to add SO2 to wine as it isn't practical to
have SO2 gas tanks in your home. However, many wineries utilize the gas
itself. I guess the old timers used to achieve SO2/Sulfite solutions by
burning sulfur and passing the gas through the wine or other acid solution.
I'll see if I can did up more information.


--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/aws

(remove spamblocker from my email)

I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.

Tom
"Greg Cook" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/30/04 12:54 PM, in article , "Tom"
> > wrote:
>
> > Maybe a silly question
> >
> > OK, I understand that sulfites have been used throughout history in wine
> > making but I have been curious as to how they did it. We have access to
> > purified refined versions of sulfites that are ancestors did not. Now
> > sulfur wicks and candles in barrels I can understand but meta
bisulfites?
> > How would great great great grandpa Joe do it it the old country? Or go
> > back further how about the greeks?
> >
> > Who's the resident chemical /historian?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
>
> It is in the burning of sulfur that you produce sulfur dioxide (SO2). That
> is the preservative in wine. SO2 is in equilibrium with metabisulfites in
> solution (in wine). Most home winemakers use readily available
> metabisulfites in powdered form to add SO2 to wine as it isn't practical
to
> have SO2 gas tanks in your home. However, many wineries utilize the gas
> itself. I guess the old timers used to achieve SO2/Sulfite solutions by
> burning sulfur and passing the gas through the wine or other acid
solution.
> I'll see if I can did up more information.
>
>
> --
> Greg Cook
> http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine
> http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/aws
>
> (remove spamblocker from my email)
>

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
> wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.

One simple way is by "mechage". That entails burning a sulfur candle in the
container before putting in the wine. That's not a very well controlled
method because some of the SO2 gets blown out, and you never really knew how
much you started with in the first place. Another (better) way is by
bubbling the fumes from burning sulfur through cold water to make sulfurous
acid, and then adding that to the wine. That's much easier to control, and
you can calculate how much you're adding by measuring the specific gravity
of the acid solution and the volumes of the wine and the addition. I know
that sounds like too modern a method, but it's pretty simple chemistry and
has been known for hundreds of years.

Tom S

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
> wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.

One simple way is by "mechage". That entails burning a sulfur candle in the
container before putting in the wine. That's not a very well controlled
method because some of the SO2 gets blown out, and you never really knew how
much you started with in the first place. Another (better) way is by
bubbling the fumes from burning sulfur through cold water to make sulfurous
acid, and then adding that to the wine. That's much easier to control, and
you can calculate how much you're adding by measuring the specific gravity
of the acid solution and the volumes of the wine and the addition. I know
that sounds like too modern a method, but it's pretty simple chemistry and
has been known for hundreds of years.

Tom S

Tom,
I have some older wine books, but this is usually a one liner about
the practice going back to Roman times as I recall.

Alex Lichine mentions the Iliad, where "Achilles fumigated his cup
with Sulfur before pouring a libation to Zeus", so that predates the
Romans. I would think that implies he burnt it.

I know the Valley of Himmon outside of Jerusalem was a garbage dump
2000 years ago where sulfur fires burned constantly, so the people in
that area burnt sulfur too.

If I run acroos better references I wil refer you.
Joe



"Tom" > wrote in message >...
> I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
> wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.
>

Tom,
I have some older wine books, but this is usually a one liner about
the practice going back to Roman times as I recall.

Alex Lichine mentions the Iliad, where "Achilles fumigated his cup
with Sulfur before pouring a libation to Zeus", so that predates the
Romans. I would think that implies he burnt it.

I know the Valley of Himmon outside of Jerusalem was a garbage dump
2000 years ago where sulfur fires burned constantly, so the people in
that area burnt sulfur too.

If I run acroos better references I wil refer you.
Joe



"Tom" > wrote in message >...
> I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
> wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.
>

Tom,
I have some older wine books, but this is usually a one liner about
the practice going back to Roman times as I recall.

Alex Lichine mentions the Iliad, where "Achilles fumigated his cup
with Sulfur before pouring a libation to Zeus", so that predates the
Romans. I would think that implies he burnt it.

I know the Valley of Himmon outside of Jerusalem was a garbage dump
2000 years ago where sulfur fires burned constantly, so the people in
that area burnt sulfur too.

If I run acroos better references I wil refer you.
Joe



"Tom" > wrote in message >...
> I would love to read about it if you dig anything up. I have always
> wondered how they physically were using SO2 in early wine making.
>