I have a promising batch of pinot noir fermenting. Cold macerated for 2
days and then pitched in a starter Lavlin k1 yeast on Sunday. It is
fermenting o.k. but not vigorously. I am punching down the cap 2 times a
day and I am wondering if I should also be stirring?
I was told by an old home wine maker that it is better to leave the stuff
that settles.

ideas please

Joe

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> I have a promising batch of pinot noir fermenting. Cold macerated for 2
> days and then pitched in a starter Lavlin k1 yeast on Sunday. It is
> fermenting o.k. but not vigorously. I am punching down the cap 2 times a
> day and I am wondering if I should also be stirring?
> I was told by an old home wine maker that it is better to leave the stuff
> that settles.
>
> ideas please

I recommend that you stir everything up vigorously while punching down, and
until you press after fermentation. If you allow the lees to compact -
especially as the fermentation is dying down - a reductive situation can
easily develop in it, just like in a swamp where there is a shortage of
oxygen. That can promote hydrogen sulfide production and you _definitely_
don't want that in your wine!

After pressing into a container, let it settle for a couple of hours to
overnight (max) and rack the clearest part to airlocked containers. Save
the muck and reclaim as much wine as you can from it, but if it starts to
smell stinky just dump it. It's not worth your time trying to deal with
that stuff, and you certainly don't want to mix it into the good stuff.

Tom S

Thanks for the advice Tom!

I have a follow up question regarding primary fermentation of white grapes.
This year I decided to ferment my Chardonnay in a 54L DJ instead of the
usual plastic fermenter and I am wondering if I made a mistake. In this
forum I have read 2 approaches:
1) ferment in a container with no air lock and stir every day?
2) ferment under air lock and don't bother stirring since yeast do not
require oxygen?

Which is the right approach for white grapes?

thanks

Joe

"Tom S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a promising batch of pinot noir fermenting. Cold macerated for 2
> > days and then pitched in a starter Lavlin k1 yeast on Sunday. It is
> > fermenting o.k. but not vigorously. I am punching down the cap 2 times
a
> > day and I am wondering if I should also be stirring?
> > I was told by an old home wine maker that it is better to leave the
stuff
> > that settles.
> >
> > ideas please
>
> I recommend that you stir everything up vigorously while punching down,
and
> until you press after fermentation. If you allow the lees to compact -
> especially as the fermentation is dying down - a reductive situation can
> easily develop in it, just like in a swamp where there is a shortage of
> oxygen. That can promote hydrogen sulfide production and you _definitely_
> don't want that in your wine!
>
> After pressing into a container, let it settle for a couple of hours to
> overnight (max) and rack the clearest part to airlocked containers. Save
> the muck and reclaim as much wine as you can from it, but if it starts to
> smell stinky just dump it. It's not worth your time trying to deal with
> that stuff, and you certainly don't want to mix it into the good stuff.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Thanks for the advice Tom!

I have a follow up question regarding primary fermentation of white grapes.
This year I decided to ferment my Chardonnay in a 54L DJ instead of the
usual plastic fermenter and I am wondering if I made a mistake. In this
forum I have read 2 approaches:
1) ferment in a container with no air lock and stir every day?
2) ferment under air lock and don't bother stirring since yeast do not
require oxygen?

Which is the right approach for white grapes?

thanks

Joe

"Tom S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a promising batch of pinot noir fermenting. Cold macerated for 2
> > days and then pitched in a starter Lavlin k1 yeast on Sunday. It is
> > fermenting o.k. but not vigorously. I am punching down the cap 2 times
a
> > day and I am wondering if I should also be stirring?
> > I was told by an old home wine maker that it is better to leave the
stuff
> > that settles.
> >
> > ideas please
>
> I recommend that you stir everything up vigorously while punching down,
and
> until you press after fermentation. If you allow the lees to compact -
> especially as the fermentation is dying down - a reductive situation can
> easily develop in it, just like in a swamp where there is a shortage of
> oxygen. That can promote hydrogen sulfide production and you _definitely_
> don't want that in your wine!
>
> After pressing into a container, let it settle for a couple of hours to
> overnight (max) and rack the clearest part to airlocked containers. Save
> the muck and reclaim as much wine as you can from it, but if it starts to
> smell stinky just dump it. It's not worth your time trying to deal with
> that stuff, and you certainly don't want to mix it into the good stuff.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Dear Joe

I made a Pinot Noir last year. When I punching down the cap, I was also
taking some juice from the bottom and pouring it over the top. I would also
stir a little so all the juice and grapes were the same.

Also, when the juice is fermenting, there isn't a lot that stays on the
bottom, so don't worry about this.

My opinion would be to stir.

Marc

"Joe Ae" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>I have a promising batch of pinot noir fermenting. Cold macerated for 2
> days and then pitched in a starter Lavlin k1 yeast on Sunday. It is
> fermenting o.k. but not vigorously. I am punching down the cap 2 times a
> day and I am wondering if I should also be stirring?
> I was told by an old home wine maker that it is better to leave the stuff
> that settles.
>
> ideas please
>
> Joe
>
>

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> This year I decided to ferment my Chardonnay in a 54L DJ instead of the
> usual plastic fermenter and I am wondering if I made a mistake. In this
> forum I have read 2 approaches:
> 1) ferment in a container with no air lock and stir every day?
> 2) ferment under air lock and don't bother stirring since yeast do not
> require oxygen?
>
> Which is the right approach for white grapes?

Actually, yeast _do_ require oxygen during their growth phase, early in the
fermentation.

I have mostly barrel fermented Chardonnay, so oxygen access has never been a
problem. The times I have made small batches in a carboy have usually gone
OK too, but occasionally one will stick and require a bit of air to get
going again. Using yeast nutrient helps prevent this problem.

Tom S

Tom,
Do you mean stir the white primary fermentation only if it gets stuck(or if
other problems occur)? Or is it better to stir regularly? This is only my
second chardonnay and last time I had to contend with h2s.
thanks
Joe

"Tom S" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This year I decided to ferment my Chardonnay in a 54L DJ instead of the
> > usual plastic fermenter and I am wondering if I made a mistake. In this
> > forum I have read 2 approaches:
> > 1) ferment in a container with no air lock and stir every day?
> > 2) ferment under air lock and don't bother stirring since yeast do not
> > require oxygen?
> >
> > Which is the right approach for white grapes?
>
> Actually, yeast _do_ require oxygen during their growth phase, early in
the
> fermentation.
>
> I have mostly barrel fermented Chardonnay, so oxygen access has never been
a
> problem. The times I have made small batches in a carboy have usually
gone
> OK too, but occasionally one will stick and require a bit of air to get
> going again. Using yeast nutrient helps prevent this problem.
>
> Tom S
>
>

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> Tom,
> Do you mean stir the white primary fermentation only if it gets stuck(or
if
> other problems occur)? Or is it better to stir regularly? This is only
my
> second chardonnay and last time I had to contend with h2s.

Many Chardonnay H2S problems are due to low nutrient. The yeast needs
nitrogen to grow, and Chardonnay tends to be nutrient deficient. Use yeast
nutrient and diammonium phosphate, as well as a strain of yeast that tends
to ferment cleanly (steer clear of Montrachet e.g.) and you shouldn't have
any H2S problem. Careful pre-fermentation settling of the juice and
post-fermentation stirring also help avoid H2S.

Follow the recommended (He
http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/NU...%20FACTORS.htm ) additions of
nutrient and DAP, but don't dump it all in at the beginning. Start with
half of each at inoculation, add another quarter when the Brix has dropped a
couple of degrees and the fermentation has obviously started (this is also a
good time to add ML culture unless you're using a Bayanus yeast strain e.g.
EC1118), and the remainder at 10-15° Brix.

Tom S

Thanks a million for clarifying for me Tom!

"Tom S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tom,
> > Do you mean stir the white primary fermentation only if it gets stuck(or
> if
> > other problems occur)? Or is it better to stir regularly? This is only
> my
> > second chardonnay and last time I had to contend with h2s.
>
> Many Chardonnay H2S problems are due to low nutrient. The yeast needs
> nitrogen to grow, and Chardonnay tends to be nutrient deficient. Use
yeast
> nutrient and diammonium phosphate, as well as a strain of yeast that tends
> to ferment cleanly (steer clear of Montrachet e.g.) and you shouldn't have
> any H2S problem. Careful pre-fermentation settling of the juice and
> post-fermentation stirring also help avoid H2S.
>
> Follow the recommended (He
> http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/NU...%20FACTORS.htm ) additions
of
> nutrient and DAP, but don't dump it all in at the beginning. Start with
> half of each at inoculation, add another quarter when the Brix has dropped
a
> couple of degrees and the fermentation has obviously started (this is also
a
> good time to add ML culture unless you're using a Bayanus yeast strain
e.g.
> EC1118), and the remainder at 10-15° Brix.
>
> Tom S
>
>