OK here's my latest experiment while I wait for my pears to ripen.

16 teaspoons or teabags of Fair Trade Green Tea
250g of chopped raisins
1kg of sugar
rind, flesh and juice of 2 limes, (don't take the pith)
Nutrient and yeast as usual

Make up just under 1g of medium-strong green tea, strain off the
leaves/teabags and pour over the other ingredients. Pitch yeast when
cool enough and carry on as usual.

I picked up straight green tea by accident, meant to get jasmine green
tea. I'll add jasmine when I get some.

"alien" > wrote in message
...
> OK here's my latest experiment while I wait for my pears to ripen.
>
> 16 teaspoons or teabags of Fair Trade Green Tea

So this recipe will not work with "unethical" green tea? ;-)

I recall a conversation as a teenager where my friend was relating an
incident to his parents. As he told the tale, he made a reference to "a
black guy" and his parents stopped him at that point and asked him, what
importance is there that this person was black? Of course there was none.
The lesson to be learned, which stuck with me, is that when non-essential
details like that are thrown in, it reveals something about the person
speaking.

So I have to wonder, was this posting about winemaking, or about promoting
ethical green tea, as you call it? You reference it twice, in the subject
line and in the recipe. That would seem to be your focus. It's not that
ethical trade is a bad thing, it just has nothing to do with this forum's
raison d'etre.

Brian

Brian Lundeen wrote:
> "alien" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>OK here's my latest experiment while I wait for my pears to ripen.
>>
>>16 teaspoons or teabags of Fair Trade Green Tea
>
>
> So this recipe will not work with "unethical" green tea? ;-)
>
> I recall a conversation as a teenager where my friend was relating an
> incident to his parents. As he told the tale, he made a reference to "a
> black guy" and his parents stopped him at that point and asked him, what
> importance is there that this person was black? Of course there was none.
> The lesson to be learned, which stuck with me, is that when non-essential
> details like that are thrown in, it reveals something about the person
> speaking.
>
> So I have to wonder, was this posting about winemaking, or about promoting
> ethical green tea, as you call it? You reference it twice, in the subject
> line and in the recipe. That would seem to be your focus. It's not that
> ethical trade is a bad thing, it just has nothing to do with this forum's
> raison d'etre.
>
> Brian
>
>

I personally don't see anything wrong with calling it "ethical green tea
wine". It's my recipe, I can call it what I like. Yes it will work if
you don't use fair trade tea.

Most people are good people, there will be people reading this who don't
know what fair trade goods are. Some will investigate, realise its a
good way of helping people without putting too much effort in and start
buying fair trade tea and coffee if their supermarket sells it.

No, advocating fair trade goods as a pure post wouldn't be on topic for
this forum, but mentioning it as part of an on-topic post is fairly
innocent. Would posting about a wine competition with the entry fee and
any other money raised be off-topic?

I am a fair trade advocate, for many reasons. This isn't a political
forum, so those reasons don't belong here. This recipe actually grew
from a discussion in another thread. I put the fair trade reference in
to say "if you didn't know already, this stuff exists".

However, it does have some relevence. If you was to investigate fair
trade tea, you'd notice that the growing conditions are more ecological
friendly and usually organic. Many people I know drink the stuff not
from ethical reasons, but because of the quality.

Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?

Well I, for one agree, with Brian.

You cannot sidestep the issue by saying it was not a political statement in
your first post. My own reaction to the post was similar to Brian's but I
did not make comment.

Your second post only confirms that your first post was a pre-considered
political statement. That being so then Brian's post was a legitimate
response and not nitpicking by a troll

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!


"alien" > wrote in message
...
<snip><snip>
>
I put the fair trade reference in to say "if you didn't know already, this
stuff exists".

<snip><snip>

> Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?

Well I, for one agree, with Brian.

You cannot sidestep the issue by saying it was not a political statement in
your first post. My own reaction to the post was similar to Brian's but I
did not make comment.

Your second post only confirms that your first post was a pre-considered
political statement. That being so then Brian's post was a legitimate
response and not nitpicking by a troll

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!


"alien" > wrote in message
...
<snip><snip>
>
I put the fair trade reference in to say "if you didn't know already, this
stuff exists".

<snip><snip>

> Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?

pinky wrote:
> Well I, for one agree, with Brian.
>
> You cannot sidestep the issue by saying it was not a political statement in
> your first post. My own reaction to the post was similar to Brian's but I
> did not make comment.
>
> Your second post only confirms that your first post was a pre-considered
> political statement. That being so then Brian's post was a legitimate
> response and not nitpicking by a troll
>
Acutally it was a spur of the moment thing, I was already typing out the
recipe and thought why not raise a little bit of awareness? The primary
concern was the recipe, if you read the post on lemon tea wine, you'd
know this. I used fair trade tea to make my wine, why not state that in
the recipe? It's my recipe, it was _my_ choice to use fair trade tea and
I named it to reflect that.

Why shouldn't I put a _minor_ bit of activism in a post (5 words in the
whole post), it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't detract from the idea
and could do some good in the world? I didn't launch into a tirade
about fair trade, explain what it is and won't do so. I didn't attack
people for not using fair trade goods, and have no intention of doing
so. Picking me up on this point is silly and anal retentive. So I
sidestepped off-topic slightly; if you don't like it, be an adult and
ignore it. If I want to argue politics, there's better places to do so.
There's better places to focus my energy than a newsgroup in promoting
fair trade too. I'd rather discuss the wine, unless someone wants more
information about fair trade, then I'll post some urls for them.

If I'd used foul language, spammed, or had been abusive to someone else,
fair enough. As it is you are just trying to tell me what I can and
can't post on a public forum.

For me, this little flame war is over, I'll leave that to the people who
enjoy such things.

"alien" > wrote in message
...
>
> Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?

Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)

Brian

"alien" > wrote in message
...
>
> Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?

Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)

Brian

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:

>Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
>those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
>awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)

No such thing as bad publicity?
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
"Whether Haliburton or Enron or anyone,
Greed is a Weapon of Mass Destruction" - Faithless

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:

>Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
>those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
>awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)

No such thing as bad publicity?
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
"Whether Haliburton or Enron or anyone,
Greed is a Weapon of Mass Destruction" - Faithless

call me ignorant, but as i read the first post,
I never even picked up on the "Fair Trade",
but simply saw the Green Tea. Thought it was perhaps
a brand name, such as lipton... And as for ethical,
I thought he had perhaps dropped the "n", because I thought
of green tea as ethnic....saw loads of it when I browsed
a wonderful Japanese market when I recently visited Chicago.

It's been interesting in this thread to see what people are
alert to or sensitive to. I would say part of it is personal,
if you are someone who is aware and advocating some issues.
Another part seems to be cultural or national. Perhaps Fair Trade
is much more of an issue in the UK than it is here in the US. At least
in my area, i get green tea because I like it...
Actually buy it in leaf form at my winemaking supply store,
as it also sells cigars in its own humidor, incense, beer supplies, tea
leaves, etc....
Fair trade, ethical, ethnic, green....i get it because I like it.
"Ethical tea wine"... would make for a wonderful conversation starter!

But please don't see the lack of understanding of issues,
because we may live on opposite sides of the pond,
and have different sensitivities, as automatically being a flame war.
Let's continue to enjoy learning from each other and sharing with each other
about the craft and hobby that unites us: winemaking.

Good luck with your Tea wine, and eventually with your pear wine.

Rick

call me ignorant, but as i read the first post,
I never even picked up on the "Fair Trade",
but simply saw the Green Tea. Thought it was perhaps
a brand name, such as lipton... And as for ethical,
I thought he had perhaps dropped the "n", because I thought
of green tea as ethnic....saw loads of it when I browsed
a wonderful Japanese market when I recently visited Chicago.

It's been interesting in this thread to see what people are
alert to or sensitive to. I would say part of it is personal,
if you are someone who is aware and advocating some issues.
Another part seems to be cultural or national. Perhaps Fair Trade
is much more of an issue in the UK than it is here in the US. At least
in my area, i get green tea because I like it...
Actually buy it in leaf form at my winemaking supply store,
as it also sells cigars in its own humidor, incense, beer supplies, tea
leaves, etc....
Fair trade, ethical, ethnic, green....i get it because I like it.
"Ethical tea wine"... would make for a wonderful conversation starter!

But please don't see the lack of understanding of issues,
because we may live on opposite sides of the pond,
and have different sensitivities, as automatically being a flame war.
Let's continue to enjoy learning from each other and sharing with each other
about the craft and hobby that unites us: winemaking.

Good luck with your Tea wine, and eventually with your pear wine.

Rick

Brian Lundeen wrote:
> "alien" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?
>
>
> Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
> those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
> awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>
> Brian
>
>
Sorry if I was a bit nasty, I'd just been told I'm not allowed to drink
for at least 2 months (and maybe never again ) so wasn't in the best
of moods.

I quite often play devils advocate, can be fun.

Thanks

Brian Lundeen wrote:
> "alien" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Are you just one of those trolls that nit picks to start flame wars?
>
>
> Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
> those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
> awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>
> Brian
>
>
Sorry if I was a bit nasty, I'd just been told I'm not allowed to drink
for at least 2 months (and maybe never again ) so wasn't in the best
of moods.

I quite often play devils advocate, can be fun.

Thanks

Ross McKay wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
>>those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
>>awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>
>
> No such thing as bad publicity?
Sorry if I was out of order, I'd just been told to give up drinking for
at least 2 months, and there's a chance it will be for ever. As you can
probably imagine I wasn't in the best of moods. Especially as my
methegelin is smelling and tasting like its going to be amazing.

Thanks!

Ross McKay wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to make all
>>those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your goal of raising
>>awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>
>
> No such thing as bad publicity?
Sorry if I was out of order, I'd just been told to give up drinking for
at least 2 months, and there's a chance it will be for ever. As you can
probably imagine I wasn't in the best of moods. Especially as my
methegelin is smelling and tasting like its going to be amazing.

Thanks!

alien wrote:
> Ross McKay wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to
>>> make all those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your
>>> goal of raising awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> No such thing as bad publicity?
>
> Sorry if I was out of order, I'd just been told to give up drinking for
> at least 2 months, and there's a chance it will be for ever. As you can
> probably imagine I wasn't in the best of moods. Especially as my
> methegelin is smelling and tasting like its going to be amazing.
>
> Thanks!

Thunderbird went mad on me, apoligies for the double post.

alien wrote:
> Ross McKay wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:06 -0500, "Brian Lundeen" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but look on the bright side. By raising this issue, you got to
>>> make all those other points. I did you a favour in furthering your
>>> goal of raising awareness. Why aren't you thanking me? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> No such thing as bad publicity?
>
> Sorry if I was out of order, I'd just been told to give up drinking for
> at least 2 months, and there's a chance it will be for ever. As you can
> probably imagine I wasn't in the best of moods. Especially as my
> methegelin is smelling and tasting like its going to be amazing.
>
> Thanks!

Thunderbird went mad on me, apoligies for the double post.

Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> call me ignorant, but as i read the first post,
> I never even picked up on the "Fair Trade",
> but simply saw the Green Tea. Thought it was perhaps
> a brand name, such as lipton... And as for ethical,
> I thought he had perhaps dropped the "n", because I thought
> of green tea as ethnic....saw loads of it when I browsed
> a wonderful Japanese market when I recently visited Chicago.
>
> It's been interesting in this thread to see what people are
> alert to or sensitive to. I would say part of it is personal,
> if you are someone who is aware and advocating some issues.
> Another part seems to be cultural or national. Perhaps Fair Trade
> is much more of an issue in the UK than it is here in the US. At least
> in my area, i get green tea because I like it...
> Actually buy it in leaf form at my winemaking supply store,
> as it also sells cigars in its own humidor, incense, beer supplies, tea
> leaves, etc....
> Fair trade, ethical, ethnic, green....i get it because I like it.
> "Ethical tea wine"... would make for a wonderful conversation starter!
>
> But please don't see the lack of understanding of issues,
> because we may live on opposite sides of the pond,
> and have different sensitivities, as automatically being a flame war.
> Let's continue to enjoy learning from each other and sharing with each other
> about the craft and hobby that unites us: winemaking.
>
> Good luck with your Tea wine, and eventually with your pear wine.
>
> Rick
>
>
Not really the place, but at the risk of antagonising a few people:

Fair trade is something that actually started in the US I believe,
though its taking off quite well in the UK. Starbucks, at least here,
are big supporters, as are Oxfam and the Co-op. Most supermarkets now
stock fair trade goods.

Over the past few years the major companies have forced the price of
coffee and tea down to levels that the growers simply can not survive
on. Fair trade ensures that the majority of the profits are given to the
growers, who in turn agree to spend them on education, environmental and
medical facilities in their communities. Its a great way of helping less
fortunate people without letting them rely on charity, all it takes is
spending a little bit more on your tea and coffee.

Thanks for the support, the tea wine is smelling good, the lime is
complimenting the tea. Took a while to start fermenting, I'm wondering
if green tea naturally inhibits yeast growth?

Rick Vanderwal wrote:
> call me ignorant, but as i read the first post,
> I never even picked up on the "Fair Trade",
> but simply saw the Green Tea. Thought it was perhaps
> a brand name, such as lipton... And as for ethical,
> I thought he had perhaps dropped the "n", because I thought
> of green tea as ethnic....saw loads of it when I browsed
> a wonderful Japanese market when I recently visited Chicago.
>
> It's been interesting in this thread to see what people are
> alert to or sensitive to. I would say part of it is personal,
> if you are someone who is aware and advocating some issues.
> Another part seems to be cultural or national. Perhaps Fair Trade
> is much more of an issue in the UK than it is here in the US. At least
> in my area, i get green tea because I like it...
> Actually buy it in leaf form at my winemaking supply store,
> as it also sells cigars in its own humidor, incense, beer supplies, tea
> leaves, etc....
> Fair trade, ethical, ethnic, green....i get it because I like it.
> "Ethical tea wine"... would make for a wonderful conversation starter!
>
> But please don't see the lack of understanding of issues,
> because we may live on opposite sides of the pond,
> and have different sensitivities, as automatically being a flame war.
> Let's continue to enjoy learning from each other and sharing with each other
> about the craft and hobby that unites us: winemaking.
>
> Good luck with your Tea wine, and eventually with your pear wine.
>
> Rick
>
>
Not really the place, but at the risk of antagonising a few people:

Fair trade is something that actually started in the US I believe,
though its taking off quite well in the UK. Starbucks, at least here,
are big supporters, as are Oxfam and the Co-op. Most supermarkets now
stock fair trade goods.

Over the past few years the major companies have forced the price of
coffee and tea down to levels that the growers simply can not survive
on. Fair trade ensures that the majority of the profits are given to the
growers, who in turn agree to spend them on education, environmental and
medical facilities in their communities. Its a great way of helping less
fortunate people without letting them rely on charity, all it takes is
spending a little bit more on your tea and coffee.

Thanks for the support, the tea wine is smelling good, the lime is
complimenting the tea. Took a while to start fermenting, I'm wondering
if green tea naturally inhibits yeast growth?