This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon primary
fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually for 5
Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have received
conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the start of
seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or should I
be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?

Thanks,

Chris Hertling
North Kansas City, MO

Chris Hertling wrote:

> This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon primary
> fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually for
> 5
> Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have received
> conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the start
> of
> seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
> commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or should
> I be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Hertling
> North Kansas City, MO

Maybe neither.

Consider buying a 5 gallon carboy and obtaining a 1/2 gallon glass jug.
If this is not sufficient, try 1.5 liter bottles.
One can never have too much in the way of various size glassware and bungs
to fit. You will re-use them time and time again so it is a one time
investment.

In case you do not want to do the above, I suggest you top up with
commercial wine.

Chris Hertling wrote:
> This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon
primary
> fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually
for 5
> Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have
received
> conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the
start of
> seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
> commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or
should I
> be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Hertling
> North Kansas City, MO

Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
for whites. I only leave enough head space so there is half an inch at
the top when the stirring rod is all the way in. It helps to say if its
a red or white in a post. I like using the right size carboy and save
my money by getting bottles at the recycling center. I really like the
taste of my wine better than the stuff at the store so I personnaly
would not add any to my wine. I only make kit wines.

"dialface" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
> for whites.

That makes it sound OK to leave headspace if you're making red wines. It is
_not_ any more OK to leave headspace over red wines than white. Reds are
susceptible to oxidation and microbial spoilage too. The only difference is
that the effects of oxidation are more _visible_ in white wines.

Tom S

but, Tom......
I thot the tannins extracted from the skin and seeds in red wine made
them more tolerant of small amounts of oxygen.

I did an experimental controlled oxygen aging of a little of this year's
first racking of my zin (little over 6 oz wine in 8 oz glass, covered
with AL foil, tightly... put in fridge for 3 months).
And damned if it isn't a nice wine. Rich, full body, no oxidized
taste... even the sediment tasted very good.

Can't imagine why I'd even want to consider putting it on oak and mask
any of the delicious varietal flavor. (of course, it won't store well)...
Zin Nouveau anyone? LOL

Gene

Tom S wrote:

> "dialface" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
>>for whites.
>
>
> That makes it sound OK to leave headspace if you're making red wines. It is
> _not_ any more OK to leave headspace over red wines than white. Reds are
> susceptible to oxidation and microbial spoilage too. The only difference is
> that the effects of oxidation are more _visible_ in white wines.
>
> Tom S
>
>

"gene" > wrote in message
om...
> but, Tom......
> I thot the tannins extracted from the skin and seeds in red wine made them
> more tolerant of small amounts of oxygen.

The operative word is "small". Although red wines are more tolerant of
oxygen exposure, they are every bit as susceptible to microbial spoilage as
whites. The spoilage organisms need oxygen to propagate, so the idea of
topping up is to cut off their air supply. Sulfite reacts with oxygen
dissolved in the wine to cut off the air supply from that direction, but you
really need to tend to both maintaining minimal headspace _and_ an adequate
sulfite level.

Tom S

Tom S wrote:

>
> "dialface" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
>> for whites.
>
> That makes it sound OK to leave headspace if you're making red wines. It
> is
> _not_ any more OK to leave headspace over red wines than white. Reds are
> susceptible to oxidation and microbial spoilage too. The only difference
> is that the effects of oxidation are more _visible_ in white wines.
>
> Tom S

I agree.

I leave ONLY enough head space in red and whites to prevent the must from
foaming out of the airlock. If it does - no big thing, I just clean out
the airlock and if necessary remove a slight amount of wine and refit the
cleaned airlock. In summary, my fermentation containers are as full as
possible and with absolutely no more air space than what is absolutely
necessary.

but, Tom......
I thot the tannins extracted from the skin and seeds in red wine made
them more tolerant of small amounts of oxygen.

I did an experimental controlled oxygen aging of a little of this year's
first racking of my zin (little over 6 oz wine in 8 oz glass, covered
with AL foil, tightly... put in fridge for 3 months).
And damned if it isn't a nice wine. Rich, full body, no oxidized
taste... even the sediment tasted very good.

Can't imagine why I'd even want to consider putting it on oak and mask
any of the delicious varietal flavor. (of course, it won't store well)...
Zin Nouveau anyone? LOL

Gene

Tom S wrote:

> "dialface" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
>>for whites.
>
>
> That makes it sound OK to leave headspace if you're making red wines. It is
> _not_ any more OK to leave headspace over red wines than white. Reds are
> susceptible to oxidation and microbial spoilage too. The only difference is
> that the effects of oxidation are more _visible_ in white wines.
>
> Tom S
>
>

"dialface" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
> for whites.

That makes it sound OK to leave headspace if you're making red wines. It is
_not_ any more OK to leave headspace over red wines than white. Reds are
susceptible to oxidation and microbial spoilage too. The only difference is
that the effects of oxidation are more _visible_ in white wines.

Tom S

>Since the kit I am using is actually for 5
>Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have received
>conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the start of
>seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
>commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or should I
>be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris Hertling
>North Kansas City, MO
>
Are you sure that you're doing a secondary MLF type fermentation. I've always
been told that kit wines CANNOT undergo an MLF, due to some sort of
stabilization that they do.

Lee

Chris Hertling wrote:

> This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon primary
> fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually for 5
> Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have received
> conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the start of
> seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
> commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or should I
> be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Hertling
> North Kansas City, MO
>
>
When I made 2 similar types of Red in 5 gallon batches from Zinfandel
and Barberra grapes, I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
for cooking. Great for Spaghetti Sauce, Stroganoff, and even soups! The
second run stuff resembles the first run stuff, but the taste is
somewhat watered down.

Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:
> Chris Hertling wrote:
>
>> This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon primary
>> fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually
>> for 5 Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I
>> have received conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping
>> off at the start of seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a
>> few bottles of commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to
>> the neck, or should I be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris Hertling
>> North Kansas City, MO
>>
> When I made 2 similar types of Red in 5 gallon batches from Zinfandel
> and Barberra grapes, I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
> fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
> 1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
> wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
> for cooking. Great for Spaghetti Sauce, Stroganoff, and even soups! The
> second run stuff resembles the first run stuff, but the taste is
> somewhat watered down.

Although my method of "topping off" might be irrelevant in your case,
what you might want to do is add enough grape juice concentrate
corrected to 1.095 SG to top off your container and get fermentation
going again for a while. The other alternative is to find a 5 gallon
Carboy,which are readily available from Wal-Mart for about 6 bucks each,
or you can buy bottled water in the carboys for about 12 or 13 bucks,
drink or use the water, and keep the carboy rather than returning it for
deposit. Plastic ones are okay, but I am looking out for some
old-fashioned glass ones to replace them with.

Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:

> I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
> fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
> 1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
> wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
> for cooking.

I discourage others from doing this. In my opinion, I think one should top
up with wine of equal or better quality.

I have made second run wine myself but I use it to blend with mediocre wine
which can't be hurt that much. I have recently blended some high pH wine
with some low pH second run wine and the result is something I can drink as
an every day wine.

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

> Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:
>
>
>>I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
>>fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
>>1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
>>wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
>>for cooking.
>
>
> I discourage others from doing this. In my opinion, I think one should top
> up with wine of equal or better quality.
>
> I have made second run wine myself but I use it to blend with mediocre wine
> which can't be hurt that much. I have recently blended some high pH wine
> with some low pH second run wine and the result is something I can drink as
> an every day wine.
>
Using second run wine to top off the first would probably be better than
pouring some "wine in a box" type wine to top off the carboys. Who knows
what is in that stuff! Second run wine varies in quality depending how
hard you press the lees, how long you let primary fermentation go, etc.
I used a mesh laundry bag to squeeze the juice out, which did a pretty
efficient job, so the results of my second run were pretty disappointing
in terms of flavor and color, compared to what I have done in the past,
when I only pressed the skins lightly. I brought my grapes this year,
and tried to make the most of them. I have on order about 25 each of
grafted Seyval and Chambourcin vines, so I will have plenty of raw
material to work with in a couple of years if my vineyard prospers.

Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:

> Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
>
>> Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
>>>fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
>>>1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
>>>wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
>>>for cooking.
>>
>>
>> I discourage others from doing this. In my opinion, I think one should
>> top up with wine of equal or better quality.
>>
>> I have made second run wine myself but I use it to blend with mediocre
>> wine
>> which can't be hurt that much. I have recently blended some high pH wine
>> with some low pH second run wine and the result is something I can drink
>> as an every day wine.
>>
> Using second run wine to top off the first would probably be better than
> pouring some "wine in a box" type wine to top off the carboys.

Agree. That is why I said to top up with - of equal to or better than -
quality of what you are topping up.

In article >,
Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& > wrote:

>Using second run wine to top off the first would probably be better than
>pouring some "wine in a box" type wine to top off the carboys. Who knows
>what is in that stuff!

Almost everything except grapes

Have you looked at those boxes on the shelf recently? I don't remember
why I did, but almost none of them are wine. OK, they have some in
them, but they're primarily other fermented gook with some wine mixed in
in an attempt to approximate the taste of wine. Out of more than a
dozen on the shelf, I think two were wine rather than "beverage with
wine added" or some such.

It's even worse with wine coolers. Putting aside the questions of why
people would want to cut their wine like that, and why they're too lazy
to mix in the soda themselves, there's no wine left in them--they're
"fermented barley beverages". That's right: bleached beer, as in
(*shudder*) Zima.

hawk, horrified
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings.
other issues of the day at dochawk.org! / \

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

> Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& wrote:
>
>
>>I took the pressed grape skins from both primary
>>fermentations, added a couple of gallons of sugar and water with a SG of
>>1.095, and made a couple of gallons of a second run wine. I use this
>>wine to add to the carboys of the good stuff, the remainder I will use
>>for cooking.
>
>
> I discourage others from doing this. In my opinion, I think one should top
> up with wine of equal or better quality.
>
> I have made second run wine myself but I use it to blend with mediocre wine
> which can't be hurt that much. I have recently blended some high pH wine
> with some low pH second run wine and the result is something I can drink as
> an every day wine.
>
Using second run wine to top off the first would probably be better than
pouring some "wine in a box" type wine to top off the carboys. Who knows
what is in that stuff! Second run wine varies in quality depending how
hard you press the lees, how long you let primary fermentation go, etc.
I used a mesh laundry bag to squeeze the juice out, which did a pretty
efficient job, so the results of my second run were pretty disappointing
in terms of flavor and color, compared to what I have done in the past,
when I only pressed the skins lightly. I brought my grapes this year,
and tried to make the most of them. I have on order about 25 each of
grafted Seyval and Chambourcin vines, so I will have plenty of raw
material to work with in a couple of years if my vineyard prospers.

Chris Hertling wrote:
> This evening, I racked my first batch of wine from the 6 galon
primary
> fermenter into a 6galon Carboy. Since the kit I am using is actually
for 5
> Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have
received
> conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the
start of
> seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
> commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or
should I
> be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Hertling
> North Kansas City, MO

Newbie here but if you follow the postings you get headspace = bad news
for whites. I only leave enough head space so there is half an inch at
the top when the stirring rod is all the way in. It helps to say if its
a red or white in a post. I like using the right size carboy and save
my money by getting bottles at the recycling center. I really like the
taste of my wine better than the stuff at the store so I personnaly
would not add any to my wine. I only make kit wines.

>Since the kit I am using is actually for 5
>Galons, the must only reaches the shoulder of the carboy. I have received
>conflicting information on wheter to worry about topping off at the start of
>seconday fermentation. Should I go out and buy a few bottles of
>commercially produced Zinfindel to bring the level to the neck, or should I
>be OK as long as I have an airlock installed?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris Hertling
>North Kansas City, MO
>
Are you sure that you're doing a secondary MLF type fermentation. I've always
been told that kit wines CANNOT undergo an MLF, due to some sort of
stabilization that they do.

Lee