Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I recently put
in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be caused by
bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment because
I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the source of
VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may need to
be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)

steve

"ss" -ag> wrote in message
...
> Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I recently
put
> in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be caused
by
> bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment
because
> I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the source of
> VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may need
to
> be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)
>
> steve
>
What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar Aroma?

Bob wrote:
> "ss" -ag> wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I
recently
> put
> > in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be
caused
> by
> > bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment
> because
> > I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the
source of
> > VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may
need
> to
> > be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)
> >
> > steve
> >
> What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar
Aroma?

Volatile Acid.

To the OP.

It could be from bacterial contamination of the barrel but could also
be from other sources too. Even normal wine yeasts can create acetic
acid although it's usually pretty low. Wild yeasts "tend" to create
more. Then there is a whole range of bacteria that can produce it.

If you think the barrel is pasts its useful life anyway, better to be
safe than sorry.

Andy

I had no idea what he meant by "VA" either!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
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"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ss" -ag> wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I recently
> put
>> in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be caused
> by
>> bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment
> because
>> I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the source
>> of
>> VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may need
> to
>> be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)
>>
>> steve
>>
> What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar Aroma?
>
>

Volatile Acidity

Pp

pinky wrote:
> I had no idea what he meant by "VA" either!
>
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "ss" -ag> wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I
recently
> > put
> >> in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be
caused
> > by
> >> bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the
moment
> > because
> >> I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the
source
> >> of
> >> VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel
may need
> > to
> >> be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> > What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar
Aroma?
> >
> >

ss,

I think you deserve a decent reply. I assume that you are keeping your
barrel topped up well, otherwise the VA could be caused by an
acetobacter infection (inwhich case you've most certainly lost the
barrel). In the case that it's not acetobacter, it is quite likely that
it is caused by a resident rogue (wild) MLB or even a rogue yeast,
especially given that your SO2 levels are low as you noted yourself. I
would ensure rigourous maintenance of topping up, and sulphite if the
problem's getting worrying. If it's considerably bad you might consider
moving the wine out of the barrel to another inert vessel aswell as
hitting it with SO2.

HTH,

Ben

That's good advice, you don't have a lot of time to fool around here.
If you are detecting VA by smell you may be too late though.

There are some tricks to reduce VA but the only one I remember off top
of my head is reducing it by adding more wine to reduce the overall
level if the issue is minimal. I can look it up later though.

You might consider sulfiting and reducing the acid chemically rather
than with MLF, topping is critical no matter what.

Joe

Ben

I agree with your comments, and your citation of possible sources of VA.
Additionally, VA can be formed if fermentation temperatures are high (15
degrees C to 25 degrees C.). High sugar musts also may be a source or
VA. Residual sugar can also be a problem, especially during MLF, as the
LAB bacteria can convert some of the sugar to acetic and other volatile
acids acid. This promotes generally VA. Interestingly, aging wines in
French oak (vs. American oak) barrels can result in extraction of VA
from the wood.

For modest VA problems a chemical called "Proxyclean" does a good job
reducing VA in barrels. It is not perfect, but has been recommended.
Here is a link: http://www.barrelbuilders.com/pg4.htm. I cannot say one
way or another if this works. we have tried it on a single barrel in
the winery, but have not had to use that barrel since then. Another
winemaker recommended it to me based upon his use of the cleaning agent.

Regards

Jerry

"pinky" > wrote in message
. ..
> I had no idea what he meant by "VA" either!

OK, so I'm not alone! :-)
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "ss" -ag> wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I recently
> > put
> >> in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be
caused
> > by
> >> bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment
> > because
> >> I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the source
> >> of
> >> VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may
need
> > to
> >> be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> > What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar Aroma?
> >
> >
>
>

"JEP62" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Bob wrote:
> > What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar
> Aroma?
>
> Volatile Acid.
>
> To the OP.
>
> It could be from bacterial contamination of the barrel but could also
> be from other sources too. Even normal wine yeasts can create acetic
> acid although it's usually pretty low. Wild yeasts "tend" to create
> more. Then there is a whole range of bacteria that can produce it.
>
> If you think the barrel is pasts its useful life anyway, better to be
> safe than sorry.

Is there no remedy? Soaking the barrel with boiling water or chemical
cleaners, charring it, burning sulfur sticks etc. Forgive my ignorance, I
don't have a wooden barrel yet.
Bob
--
Please excuse any errors in my post,
as I have dain bramage.


>
> Andy
>

Bob wrote:
>
> Is there no remedy? Soaking the barrel with boiling water or
chemical
> cleaners, charring it, burning sulfur sticks etc. Forgive my
ignorance, I
> don't have a wooden barrel yet.
> Bob
> --


If it's from bacterial contamination of the barrel, it can be very
difficult to eliminate. Ozone has shown some promise, but that's not
something a home winemaker is probably going to consider.

I think it comes down to the risk your willing to take. You may knock
down the bacteria enough, but if the barrel is at the end of its life
anyway, why take a chance of infecting another batch of wine.

Andy

"JEP62" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > Is there no remedy? Soaking the barrel with boiling water or
> chemical
> > cleaners, charring it, burning sulfur sticks etc. Forgive my
> ignorance, I
> > don't have a wooden barrel yet.
> > Bob
> > --
>
>
> If it's from bacterial contamination of the barrel, it can be very
> difficult to eliminate. Ozone has shown some promise, but that's not
> something a home winemaker is probably going to consider.
>
> I think it comes down to the risk your willing to take. You may knock
> down the bacteria enough, but if the barrel is at the end of its life
> anyway, why take a chance of infecting another batch of wine.

Thanks Andy; I was under the impression that a barrel has a much longer
life than that, decades or more. Learn something new every day!
Bob
--
The voice inside my head claims to be a psychiatrist.

> Andy
>

"ss" -ag> wrote in message
...
> Hi folks - I'm a little confused about VA - I noticed a wine I recently
> put
> in one of my older barrels has aquired a touch of VA. Can this be caused
> by
> bacteria resident in the barrel? - SO2 levels are low at the moment
> because
> I do want the wine to go through ML - but I'm wondering what the source of
> VA might be - and obviously if this is a signal that the barrel may need
> to
> be turfed? (No big loss since it is now 5 years old)

That barrel is infected, and the wine in it is in the process of turning to
vinegar - especially since the SO2 is low. You need to get it out and hit
it with sulfite unless you need a _lot_ of vinegar. Even then, you might
not be able to save the wine.

Tom S

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>
> What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar Aroma?

That last is close: Volatile Acidity - which means vinegar and/or
acetaldehyde.

Tom S

"Tom S" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > What is VA? Virginia? Veterans Administration? Viagra? Vinegar Aroma?
>
> That last is close: Volatile Acidity - which means vinegar and/or
> acetaldehyde.
>
> Tom S
>
Thanks Tom. I learn a new abbreviation every day. When I first got on
Usenet I kept seeing posts called OT, but they were all just jokes and had
nothing to do with the Old Testament!!! LOL!!!!
Bob<><
--

Heroes always bleed, but heroes never cry,
heroes always get the best girl, and then die..."
- Gary Numan- "A Dream of Siam"