Can't think of a reason it won't work, but realize that since you've
started with the D47, you'll probably never get as much 1118 as you
expect, since it's being out-competed by so many more D47s. Flavors
will probably be in line with that.

Having sai that, I've never done exactly what you're trying, so I'm
looking forward to what others say

Rob

Don S wrote:
> Any thoughts on using two yeasts? One for the fruit and one
> to help finish the wine dry. I've got a Chardonnay kit which
> will be pretty much table wine as it's a middle of the road
> 4 week kit. I really like the Lalvin D-47 I've started it
> with but I'm considering using EC-1118 at the very end to
> ensure it finishes dry. I need to get this kit done as I'm
> almost to the point where I'll have to buy wine from the
> store (gack). Thoughts?
>
> Don
Well D-47 usually stops in the 14 to 16% range and EC-1118 will
sometimes goes up to 20+% so there is room for the EC-1118 to work. It
shouldn't be to much of a problem though I'd make a starter for the
EC-1118 instead of just adding it. I know that Lalvin says that both
yeasts are "killer" strains so I'm not sure how that will effect the
process.
Ken

The reason for using the EC-1118 is that it's a much more aggressive
yeast often used for stuck fermentations. Which is one of the reasons
that kit makers use it, less chance of problems.

If I get the fruit forwardness of the D-47 but right at the end of
the fermentation add the EC-1118 I figure it will in a week or so
be guaranteed dry and not have the "champagne" taste of the 1118.
Normally I'd just give the kit an extra month or three but I'm
running low and the last time I hurried to the bottle I ended up
with a slightly fizzy wine. Hence the 1118. I've got alot of packs
of it left over from kits.

Don


> Well D-47 usually stops in the 14 to 16% range and EC-1118 will
> sometimes goes up to 20+% so there is room for the EC-1118 to work. It
> shouldn't be to much of a problem though I'd make a starter for the
> EC-1118 instead of just adding it. I know that Lalvin says that both
> yeasts are "killer" strains so I'm not sure how that will effect the
> process.

Pitching two means one will dy and one will remain, but very, very weak and
stressed. They will fight for oxygen to start with, then for food while they
will try to kill each other due to the "killer" factor, that is very welcome
to fight "wild" yeast, but the contrary for what you want to achieve now.
You will have a stuck fermentation on your hands and no means to bring it
back into action (which yeast did survive? You need a starter of that same
yeast or the same tragedy will take place once more.) Use your "normal"
yeast. It will ferment your kit to dryness, given enough time. Use your D 47
and enjoy a fruity, dry chardonnay.

Ed

No flowers, no bees;
No leaves on the trees;
No wonder,
November.


"Rob" > schreef in bericht
oups.com...
> Could you pitch both at the same time and have it work? Or would they
> just beat each other up?
>
> Rob
>

> Could you pitch both at the same time and have it work? Or would they
> just beat each other up?

Defeats the idea of having the flavours primarily produced by
the D-47.

Don

> Pitching two means one will dy and one will remain, but very, very weak and
> stressed. They will fight for oxygen to start with, then for food while they
> will try to kill each other due to the "killer" factor, that is very welcome
> to fight "wild" yeast, but the contrary for what you want to achieve now.
> You will have a stuck fermentation on your hands and no means to bring it
> back into action (which yeast did survive? You need a starter of that same
> yeast or the same tragedy will take place once more.) Use your "normal"
> yeast. It will ferment your kit to dryness, given enough time. Use your D 47
> and enjoy a fruity, dry chardonnay.

Not sure I agree with this but I think I might as well use the D-47
right through to dryness. I just need to give it a few more weeks and
it'll probably be worth it.

Don

WHY NOT FERMENT TWO SEPARATE BATCHES(YEASTS) AND BLEND :
If you are trying to acheve two separate styles by using two yeasts the
best
way would be to ferment two separate batches EG 1/2 with one yeast and
1/2 with another .When fully fermented immediately combine both racked
wines to one and allow to mingle. This will allow you to get the
results you are looking in a controlled way (ie you decide how much of
which style of wine you want).
OR
You could even do as commerical wineries do and blend for different
results. Example:2 nde Fermentation in 2 carboys (11.3 liter instead
of 23 liter). then blend at bottling for different styles of wine.
Negative would be need to wait longer so wine is integrated.

Equipment: you would need 2 primary fermenters, which could be simple 2
X 20 liter pails open top for Red or 2 carboys 19 or 23 liter instead
of one. I have done this in the past with success. Combining 2 yeast
does often result in high So2 or other problems .

WHY NOT FERMENT TWO SEPARATE BATCHES(YEASTS) AND BLEND :
If you are trying to acheve two separate styles by using two yeasts the
best
way would be to ferment two separate batches EG 1/2 with one yeast and
1/2 with another .When fully fermented immediately combine both racked
wines to one and allow to mingle. This will allow you to get the
results you are looking in a controlled way (ie you decide how much of
which style of wine you want).
OR
You could even do as commerical wineries do and blend for different
results. Example:2 nde Fermentation in 2 carboys (11.3 liter instead
of 23 liter). then blend at bottling for different styles of wine.
Negative would be need to wait longer so wine is integrated.

Equipment: you would need 2 primary fermenters, which could be simple 2
X 20 liter pails open top for Red or 2 carboys 19 or 23 liter instead
of one. I have done this in the past with success. Combining 2 yeast
does often result in high So2 or other problems .

Hello

I have not seen anyone mixing yeasts where we make wine. The reason is
that some yeasts are very aggressive and do "kill" other yeasts one way
or another, i.e. competition for nutrients, sensitivity to the toxic
products of yeast metabolism, SO2, etc.

The suggestion of fermenting batches of wine with different yeasts to
develop different sensory characteristics is the norm as far as I know.
For example, in 2004 we fermented different lots of Pinot Noir using 3
different yeasts. Lallemand's ICV D21, ICV D254 and ICV D80 were used
in a specific ratio in order to develop a wine that offered the best
characteristics of all of these yeasts. The final blend is a wine that
reflects exactly this.

I remember one day when I was asked what yeasts I was using, that I
responded I was using all three yeasts. From across the winery came a
shout "NOT ALL THREE AT ONCE, THESE ARE KILLER STRAINS.." Upon
explaining my strategy, the fellow who shouted relaxed and, I assume, no
longer considered me daft, or at least as daft.

Regards

Jerry


"The Chateau Plonk de Jacques" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> WHY NOT FERMENT TWO SEPARATE BATCHES(YEASTS) AND BLEND :
> If you are trying to acheve two separate styles by using two yeasts
> the
> best
> way would be to ferment two separate batches EG 1/2 with one yeast and
> 1/2 with another .When fully fermented immediately combine both racked
> wines to one and allow to mingle. This will allow you to get the
> results you are looking in a controlled way (ie you decide how much of
> which style of wine you want).
> OR
> You could even do as commerical wineries do and blend for different
> results. Example:2 nde Fermentation in 2 carboys (11.3 liter instead
> of 23 liter). then blend at bottling for different styles of wine.
> Negative would be need to wait longer so wine is integrated.
>
> Equipment: you would need 2 primary fermenters, which could be simple
> 2
> X 20 liter pails open top for Red or 2 carboys 19 or 23 liter instead
> of one. I have done this in the past with success. Combining 2 yeast
> does often result in high So2 or other problems .
>

You don't really need 2 primary fermenters especially with D-47, you
can start and ferment right in the 11.5l carboys which I've done. But
in this case ithe reason wasn't to achieve two different styles but
to ensure it fermented to dry - D-47 for fruit forward and 1118 for
finishing dry.

In any case I've decided to just let the D-47 do its stuff and give
it another week in a slightly warmer location to finish dry.

Don


> WHY NOT FERMENT TWO SEPARATE BATCHES(YEASTS) AND BLEND :
> If you are trying to acheve two separate styles by using two yeasts the
> best
> way would be to ferment two separate batches EG 1/2 with one yeast and
> 1/2 with another .When fully fermented immediately combine both racked
> wines to one and allow to mingle. This will allow you to get the
> results you are looking in a controlled way (ie you decide how much of
> which style of wine you want).
> OR
> You could even do as commerical wineries do and blend for different
> results. Example:2 nde Fermentation in 2 carboys (11.3 liter instead
> of 23 liter). then blend at bottling for different styles of wine.
> Negative would be need to wait longer so wine is integrated.
>
> Equipment: you would need 2 primary fermenters, which could be simple 2
> X 20 liter pails open top for Red or 2 carboys 19 or 23 liter instead
> of one. I have done this in the past with success. Combining 2 yeast
> does often result in high So2 or other problems .