Help

I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I do
not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
input.

Signed
Very Concerned

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:07:30 -0400, "JM" > wrote:

>Help
>
> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I do
>not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
>input.
>
>Signed
>Very Concerned
>
It's probably fine, but put the air lock back in.

Truitt

JM wrote:
> Help
>
> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I do
> not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
> input.
>
> Signed
> Very Concerned
>
>
Hi JM

It's happened to many of us. Just put it back.

The batch should be o.k. Taste it. Any oxidation at this point should
be slight. Check the sulphite and bring up to the correct level.

All will be well.

Regards

Frank

Check out the appearance and taste. The only access the oxygen has to the
wine is to diffuse through the top so the surface to volume area is
fortunately quiet small. Chances are there is little or no perceptible
damage particularly if your sulfite level is adequate and should be at least
20 ppm free sulfite depending on the pH of your wine. If there is a
distinct browning that's a bad sign. The taste of an over-oxidized wine is
very characteristic (madeirized) but if it looks and tastes fine at this
point there should be no problem.

The most common reason for this is when the bung is not the proper size.
Most of us have made the mistake of using a bung that is too large for the
carboy opening and we force it it hence, the risk of it popping out. Also
when doing several procedures in the wine cellar, particularly if you have
several carboys going, there is the risk of leaving one without a bung in
it. Check carefully each time you leave the wine cellar.

Good luck.

Glen Duff
----------
"JM" > wrote in message
...
> Help
>
> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I
> do
> not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
> input.
>
> Signed
> Very Concerned
>
>

What was the carboy doing? Was it fermenting hard or slowly? Was it bulk
aging. Had you just racked it and which racking? All indicators of how
important the slip up might have been. But as commented above, it probably
was not fatal and there is little reason to cry over spilt milk. Just clean
it up but putting the air lock back on and hope for the best. For all we
moan and worry about air contact, a seemingly disastrous blunder like this
will seldom be noticed in the final product. This is really a very
forgiving hobby! I find an airlock off of one of my 20 or so carboys about
once every year or two and I have never lost a batch to it yet.

Ray

"JM" > wrote in message
...
> Help
>
> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I
> do
> not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
> input.
>
> Signed
> Very Concerned
>
>

"JM" > wrote in message
...
> Help
>
> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I
do
> not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
> input.
>
> Signed
> Very Concerned

Very Concerned,

Gasses dissolve in liquids. Chemical reactions are not necessary. The gas
molecules occupy space between the liquid molecules. However, only small
quantities of gases can dissolve in liquids because little room exists.
When all of the space has been used, the liquid becomes saturated, and no
more gas can be dissolved. Air contains about 21 percent oxygen, and when
wine is exposed to air, oxygen dissolves in the wine. But once the wine is
saturated, no more oxygen can be dissolved.

Under normal cellar condition, oxygen dissolves quickly until wine becomes
saturated. The dissolved oxygen then reacts with several wine substances,
and the dissolved oxygen disappears from the wine as these reactions occur.
But, many of these oxidation reactions occur very slowly, so considerable
time is required for the dissolved oxygen to disappear from wine. Depending
on storage conditions, several days to a few weeks may be required before
all of the dissolved oxygen is consumed by the chemical reactions. Of
course, once the dissolved oxygen is gone, wine can become saturated again
if it is exposed to additional air.

Novice winemakers often panic when they discover a bung laying on the floor
because they
are afraid the wine in the open barrel or carboy will be oxidized.
Depending on storage conditions, wine in an open barrel becomes saturated
with oxygen quickly, but once the wine is saturated little more oxygen can
enter. Some of the dissolved oxygen reacts slowly with sulfur dioxide or
other materials in the wine. The dissolved oxygen disappears slowly, so the
wine in the open barrel remains saturated or nearly saturated. Once the
bung is replaced, sulfur dioxide continues to scavenge oxygen.
Consequently, a barrel or carboy of wine may be open to the air for a day or
so, but the saturation effect often prevents excessive wine damage. Of
course, catastrophic oxidation can occur if the sulfur dioxide content of
the wine is low or a wine container remains open for an extended time.

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

Thanks Lum, this thoughtful and knowledgeabl answer is why people like you
and Tom S should be nominated to the newsgroups "Hall of Fame."

Glen Duff
=============
"Lum" > wrote in message
...
> "JM" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Help
>>
>> I had a air lock come out of a 5 gal. carboy some how. For how long I
> do
>> not know maybe as much as 3-4 days. Is this batch ruined? Thanks for an
>> input.
>>
>> Signed
>> Very Concerned
>
> Very Concerned,
>
> Gasses dissolve in liquids. Chemical reactions are not necessary. The gas
> molecules occupy space between the liquid molecules. However, only small
> quantities of gases can dissolve in liquids because little room exists.
> When all of the space has been used, the liquid becomes saturated, and no
> more gas can be dissolved. Air contains about 21 percent oxygen, and when
> wine is exposed to air, oxygen dissolves in the wine. But once the wine
> is
> saturated, no more oxygen can be dissolved.
>
> Under normal cellar condition, oxygen dissolves quickly until wine becomes
> saturated. The dissolved oxygen then reacts with several wine substances,
> and the dissolved oxygen disappears from the wine as these reactions
> occur.
> But, many of these oxidation reactions occur very slowly, so considerable
> time is required for the dissolved oxygen to disappear from wine.
> Depending
> on storage conditions, several days to a few weeks may be required before
> all of the dissolved oxygen is consumed by the chemical reactions. Of
> course, once the dissolved oxygen is gone, wine can become saturated again
> if it is exposed to additional air.
>
> Novice winemakers often panic when they discover a bung laying on the
> floor
> because they
> are afraid the wine in the open barrel or carboy will be oxidized.
> Depending on storage conditions, wine in an open barrel becomes saturated
> with oxygen quickly, but once the wine is saturated little more oxygen can
> enter. Some of the dissolved oxygen reacts slowly with sulfur dioxide or
> other materials in the wine. The dissolved oxygen disappears slowly, so
> the
> wine in the open barrel remains saturated or nearly saturated. Once the
> bung is replaced, sulfur dioxide continues to scavenge oxygen.
> Consequently, a barrel or carboy of wine may be open to the air for a day
> or
> so, but the saturation effect often prevents excessive wine damage. Of
> course, catastrophic oxidation can occur if the sulfur dioxide content of
> the wine is low or a wine container remains open for an extended time.
>
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>

I gotta' question though.

If the wine is already saturated with C02 (indicated by bubbles in the
airlock) then will exposure to oxygen gas cause significant absorbtion
into the liquid?

Chris

I gotta' question though.

If the wine is already saturated with C02 (indicated by bubbles in the
airlock) then will exposure to oxygen gas cause significant absorbtion
into the liquid?

Chris

Yes. each gas has it's own partial pressure in the fluid. The CO2 will
help protect it but will not prevent the O2 from getting in.

Ray

"Chris" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I gotta' question though.
>
> If the wine is already saturated with C02 (indicated by bubbles in the
> airlock) then will exposure to oxygen gas cause significant absorbtion
> into the liquid?
>
> Chris
>

Ray Calvert wrote:

> Yes. each gas has it's own partial pressure in the fluid.


Someone who remembers Charles' Law from Chem 101. Ray, I'm impressed.



Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA

In article <1113512311.c55e09085f15bf33ea7bb2615dcb3d16@teran ews>,
Mike McGeough > wrote:
>Ray Calvert wrote:
>
>> Yes. each gas has it's own partial pressure in the fluid.
>
>Someone who remembers Charles' Law from Chem 101. Ray, I'm impressed.

However, my memory is that the partial pressure applies to the gasses
above, not the liquids. Isn't it about the ability of the liquid to
release molecules that will be in the vapor state, rather than the
ability of the liquid to absorb gas?

hawk

--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings.
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In article >,
Glen Duff > wrote:
>Check out the appearance and taste. The only access the oxygen has to the
>wine is to diffuse through the top so the surface to volume area is
>fortunately quiet small.

I'll toss in the advice I'd offer if this were beer, partly because it
may be relevant, and partly because I'm wondering how it relates to
wine.

With beer, the big concern wouldn't be oxidation but mold (and other
contaminants). Wine is a much more hostile environment, far better able
to take care of itself against nasties . . .

Anyway, the molds that hit beer, and some of the bacteria, start as
surface colonies, and are quite visible. I "solved" these by siphoning
out from the bottom, and leaving an inch or two behind. I'd also
massively "dry hop" the beer. This not only helped mask the taste, but
helped retard growth. I'd also immediately chill it and then put it on
tap. I don't know of any comparable additive for wine. Also keep in
mind that I was engaged in damage control at this point, rather than
good practice . . .

(Hmm, add brandy to make a port?).

Again, what I'm talking about is infection, not oxidation. I really
have nothing to say about that concern, but forntuantely many more have.



>The most common reason for this is when the bung is not the proper size.

Cats.

Damnit.



One of the best beers I've ever made was my "Cat's Death Stout." Two
6.5 gallon fermenters, and he knocked the bung off one. How good was
the other? Best of Show at a major regional . . .

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings.
other issues of the day at dochawk.org! / \

Nope, Applies just as well to gasses dissolved in liquids. Ask any
petroleum engineer. He is always concerned with the partial pressures of
the gasses dissolved in the liquids he is dealing with.

Ray

"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" > wrote in message
...
> In article <1113512311.c55e09085f15bf33ea7bb2615dcb3d16@teran ews>,
> Mike McGeough > wrote:
>>Ray Calvert wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. each gas has it's own partial pressure in the fluid.
>>
>>Someone who remembers Charles' Law from Chem 101. Ray, I'm impressed.
>
> However, my memory is that the partial pressure applies to the gasses
> above, not the liquids. Isn't it about the ability of the liquid to
> release molecules that will be in the vapor state, rather than the
> ability of the liquid to absorb gas?
>
> hawk
>
> --
> Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon
> campaign
> 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
> Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings.
> other issues of the day at dochawk.org! / \

Your memory is correct, in that gases above the liquid is usually what
they're teaching at the time, and their using the liquid as the
"infinite source" of the substance. Here you have the reverse, where
the introduced gas (air, dropping to the liquid surface with the
removal of the airlock) is the infinite source, but the mechanics are
the same.

I hadn't really thought about this, but when this happens during
fermentation in an open-top fermenter or carboy, the CO2 forming over
the must not only covers the wine to prevent oxidation, but I think it
would draw O2 out of the must following Charles' law.

Rob