Problem: Help!
 

Okay, I've been making wine for about five years, but through some
cosmological fluke have never had a problem with a fermentation. There's a
first time for everything, and since I've never had to deal with anything
like this, I could use some advice.

I put up a plum wine (from fresh plums) 12 days ago, and transferred it to a
secondary last sunday. Looking at the wine in the carboy, I see what looks
like small patches of wax forming on the top. Obviously a bacteria of some
kind. Any suggestions on how to fight this?

Did some research, and found something on Jack Keller's website about
"Flowers of Wine". He suggests racking and filtering to remove the flowers,
and then adding a crushed campden tablet. I'm not CERTAIN this is what is
happening to my wine, but it looks like it might match. Thoughts?



"Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, I've been making wine for about five years, but through some
> cosmological fluke have never had a problem with a fermentation. There's
> a first time for everything, and since I've never had to deal with
> anything like this, I could use some advice.
>
> I put up a plum wine (from fresh plums) 12 days ago, and transferred it to
> a secondary last sunday. Looking at the wine in the carboy, I see what
> looks like small patches of wax forming on the top. Obviously a bacteria
> of some kind. Any suggestions on how to fight this?
>
>
>

I've seen that, hit it with camden (1 tablet /gal) and gently stir; or rack
again and add camden.

Did not seem to effect the quality of the wine, it happened once to a
Blueberry wine I made.

Steve
"Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
...
> Did some research, and found something on Jack Keller's website about
> "Flowers of Wine". He suggests racking and filtering to remove the
flowers,
> and then adding a crushed campden tablet. I'm not CERTAIN this is what is
> happening to my wine, but it looks like it might match. Thoughts?
>
>
>
> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Okay, I've been making wine for about five years, but through some
> > cosmological fluke have never had a problem with a fermentation.
There's
> > a first time for everything, and since I've never had to deal with
> > anything like this, I could use some advice.
> >
> > I put up a plum wine (from fresh plums) 12 days ago, and transferred it
to
> > a secondary last sunday. Looking at the wine in the carboy, I see what
> > looks like small patches of wax forming on the top. Obviously a
bacteria
> > of some kind. Any suggestions on how to fight this?
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Okay, Keller's website says that Flowers of Wine (if that's what this batch
is afflicted with) is an alcohol killer, converting alcohol to carbon
dioxide gas. If left untreated it will turn the wine into colored water.
Two questions:

- How can I measure the amount of alcohol loss I have experienced? A rise
in SG?

- Is this strictly an alcohol killer, or will it affect taste as well? If
it does affect the taste, is there any way to repair the damage?



"Steve Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> I've seen that, hit it with camden (1 tablet /gal) and gently stir; or
> rack
> again and add camden.
>
> Did not seem to effect the quality of the wine, it happened once to a
> Blueberry wine I made.
>
> Steve
> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Did some research, and found something on Jack Keller's website about
>> "Flowers of Wine". He suggests racking and filtering to remove the
> flowers,
>> and then adding a crushed campden tablet. I'm not CERTAIN this is what
>> is
>> happening to my wine, but it looks like it might match. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Okay, I've been making wine for about five years, but through some
>> > cosmological fluke have never had a problem with a fermentation.
> There's
>> > a first time for everything, and since I've never had to deal with
>> > anything like this, I could use some advice.
>> >
>> > I put up a plum wine (from fresh plums) 12 days ago, and transferred it
> to
>> > a secondary last sunday. Looking at the wine in the carboy, I see what
>> > looks like small patches of wax forming on the top. Obviously a
> bacteria
>> > of some kind. Any suggestions on how to fight this?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Hi Matthew,

specific gravity is, (very) simply speaking, a measure of how much
sugar is in the water, compared to water without any in. Alcohol is
less dense than water and therefore a reduction in alcohol could be
reflected by an increase in specific gravity, BUT the change would be
far smaller than a hydrometer could measure (i.e. much much smaller
than the uncertainty already present in the hydrometer).
No, it isn't strictly an alcohol killer as biochemical reactions are
never that precise - for instance yeast turns sugar to ethanol and
carbon dioxide, but also produces a host of other compounds in varying
amounts (e.g. methanol, glycerol etc). The bacteria could affect the
taste of the wine .
I think that considering you have noticed the problem quickly, and
taken steps to rectify it, you won't have any trouble. Perhaps though,
it would be worthwile sampling the wine more regularly - it may mean
the wine doesn't last as long.

Hope this is of some use, best of luck,

Just as an aside, I have just bottled a batch of plum wine (luckily I
didn't have this problem), the taste was quite extraordinary - a full
bodied / pinkish/red wine which reminded me a lot of tawny port. I can
hardly wait to start opening it :-).

M.Baker

Okay, I racked the wine over to a new carboy and, once in the new carboy,
treated the wine with 5 crushed campden tablets. This afternoon I noticed a
VERY thin skin on the top of the wine, and some small waxy-like buildup
along the waterline. So it looks like it's back. I could follow the same
remedy, but how much campden is safe to add to the wine before it starts
affecting the taste?

Unless I hear differently, I'll plan to rack this over to a new carboy and
hit it with more campden (5-tablets). Again. Is this correct?


"Steve Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> I've seen that, hit it with camden (1 tablet /gal) and gently stir; or
> rack
> again and add camden.
>
> Did not seem to effect the quality of the wine, it happened once to a
> Blueberry wine I made.
>
> Steve
> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Did some research, and found something on Jack Keller's website about
>> "Flowers of Wine". He suggests racking and filtering to remove the
> flowers,
>> and then adding a crushed campden tablet. I'm not CERTAIN this is what
>> is
>> happening to my wine, but it looks like it might match. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Okay, I've been making wine for about five years, but through some
>> > cosmological fluke have never had a problem with a fermentation.
> There's
>> > a first time for everything, and since I've never had to deal with
>> > anything like this, I could use some advice.
>> >
>> > I put up a plum wine (from fresh plums) 12 days ago, and transferred it
> to
>> > a secondary last sunday. Looking at the wine in the carboy, I see what
>> > looks like small patches of wax forming on the top. Obviously a
> bacteria
>> > of some kind. Any suggestions on how to fight this?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

"Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, I racked the wine over to a new carboy and, once in the new carboy,
> treated the wine with 5 crushed campden tablets. This afternoon I noticed
> a VERY thin skin on the top of the wine, and some small waxy-like buildup
> along the waterline. So it looks like it's back. I could follow the same
> remedy, but how much campden is safe to add to the wine before it starts
> affecting the taste?

Your problem is the airspace over the wine. You need to rack to (a) smaller
container(s) to eliminate that space. Spoilage organisms need air to grow,
and you're providing them with good conditions.

Tom S

The original spoilage occurred when the 5-gallon carboy was full. About an
inch clearance between the wine and the bottom of the airlock. After
racking it, there's more clearance, and the stuff came back. So this time
I'll rack it, ad the 5 campden tables, and then top it up with water so
there's very little airspace.


"Tom S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Okay, I racked the wine over to a new carboy and, once in the new carboy,
>> treated the wine with 5 crushed campden tablets. This afternoon I
>> noticed a VERY thin skin on the top of the wine, and some small waxy-like
>> buildup along the waterline. So it looks like it's back. I could follow
>> the same remedy, but how much campden is safe to add to the wine before
>> it starts affecting the taste?
>
> Your problem is the airspace over the wine. You need to rack to (a)
> smaller container(s) to eliminate that space. Spoilage organisms need air
> to grow, and you're providing them with good conditions.
>
> Tom S
>

"Matthew Givens" > wrote in message
...
> The original spoilage occurred when the 5-gallon carboy was full. About
> an inch clearance between the wine and the bottom of the airlock. After
> racking it, there's more clearance, and the stuff came back. So this time
> I'll rack it, ad the 5 campden tables, and then top it up with water so
> there's very little airspace.

Sounds like the wine has high pH. It's very difficult to protect high pH
wines with sulfite because it takes so much to be effective.

OTOH, are you sure those Campden tablets are still good? Exposure to air
reduces their potency rather quickly. You may be shooting blanks. The only
way to know for sure is to test the wine for free SO2, and you also need to
know the pH of the wine.

Tom S