I'm working on winemaking basics by making small batches of white wine.
I am using that Welch's white grape concentrate that has been
discussed on here before. I prepare a gallon, which gets me four
bottles easy, with a little leftover that can be discarded as gunk.
This first batch tastes all right, but it's very cloudy. I'm hoping for
some clarifying tips, and I've also become concerned with oxidation.

I read some things in the FAQ about clarifying, and I outright adding
clarifying agents to the first wine I ever made--it was a kit and had
betonite included. That wine still has some clarity problems, which I
presume will subside with age. While that wine was a red, I made a
white this time, and want to drink it right away. So I'm a little
impatient.

For the secondary fermentation, I had dabbled with chilling the must in
the refridgerator. This seemed to help to some extent, just looking at
all the crap that had settled to the bottom. I had let it sit for a
little over a week. That was a good idea, but what likely wasn't a good
idea was trying to rack through a coffee filter going between primary
and secondary. I thought it'd take out some of the yeast flavor, but
some of the hobo wine people I've been talking to about this probably
just do it out of superstition.

That racking step had me concerned about oxidation. It took a lot of
time to filter that gallon, and everything was exposed to air during
this time (30 minutes or so). Once in the secondary, the container was
filled almost to the top and appropriately sealed. Was I invited
trouble during that racking?

I have some bentonite on supply, but I wanted to see how chilling would
help. It looks like it's a good idea to use bentonite with chilling,
and that's likely what I'll use next time. However, I was curious how
effective different clarifying techniques ultimately are. Say, would I
have had a clearer wine if I had just used bentonite without refridgeration?

I should also add this wine smells of yeast too, even if it doesn't
taste of it. Perhaps priority one should be to get rid of that; I
figure unclear is related.

Adam,
See below

Adam Preble wrote:
> I'm working on winemaking basics by making small batches of white wine.
> I am using that Welch's white grape concentrate that has been
> discussed on here before. I prepare a gallon, which gets me four
> bottles easy, with a little leftover that can be discarded as gunk.
> This first batch tastes all right, but it's very cloudy. I'm hoping for
> some clarifying tips, and I've also become concerned with oxidation.
>
> I read some things in the FAQ about clarifying, and I outright adding
> clarifying agents to the first wine I ever made--it was a kit and had
> betonite included. That wine still has some clarity problems, which I
> presume will subside with age. While that wine was a red, I made a
> white this time, and want to drink it right away. So I'm a little
> impatient.

You will make better wine if you are patient but that said there are
things you can do to speed things up. There are aslways trade offs
though.
>
> For the secondary fermentation, I had dabbled with chilling the must in
> the refridgerator. This seemed to help to some extent, just looking at
> all the crap that had settled to the bottom.

I assume it was done fermenting first.

I had let it sit for a
> little over a week. That was a good idea, but what likely wasn't a good
> idea was trying to rack through a coffee filter going between primary
> and secondary. I thought it'd take out some of the yeast flavor, but
> some of the hobo wine people I've been talking to about this probably
> just do it out of superstition.

Never do that, you are right. It's bad practice to rack that way.
Wait for the wine to settle before racking and only take the clear wine
over. There is no need for a coffe filter.
>
> That racking step had me concerned about oxidation. It took a lot of
> time to filter that gallon, and everything was exposed to air during
> this time (30 minutes or so). Once in the secondary, the container was
> filled almost to the top and appropriately sealed. Was I invited
> trouble during that racking?

Yes, especially if it'as white and sulfite levels are low and the wine
is cold. You probably ripped any sulfite out doing it this way also.
>
> I have some bentonite on supply, but I wanted to see how chilling would
> help. It looks like it's a good idea to use bentonite with chilling,
> and that's likely what I'll use next time. However, I was curious how
> effective different clarifying techniques ultimately are. Say, would I
> have had a clearer wine if I had just used bentonite without refridgeration?

Yes, bentonite alone will clarify a wine, it should be added at room
temp and then chilled once it has settled. the chilling compacts it
more, it's not needed.
>
> I should also add this wine smells of yeast too, even if it doesn't
> taste of it. Perhaps priority one should be to get rid of that; I
> figure unclear is related.

Time will take care of that or the bentonite.

Hope that helps.

Joe

I used Sparkalloid on my first batch of Welches white and it came out
brilliantly clear.

After 2 weeks I racked off the super fine sediment on the bottom making
sure not to carry any over and after another 3 weeks absolutely nothing
else is dropping out of this wine it looks awesome.

John F

I have only made these wines in 5 gal. batches and use superklear. But
superklear comes in premeasured packets for 5 gallons and it can not be
opened and then used later. There is no problem with letting the wine have
30 min. air contact while racking and working with it if you do not do it
more than a few times before it goes into bottle.

For future batches you could probably use the same technique used in
commercial batches. They add the betonite at the start of fermentation so
it percolates with the yeast and then settles at the end.

Do not drink it cloudy. Work at getting it clear. It will taste and smell
much better. Most of my wine I try to let patience clear it. Time will
work. But for this particular wine, it is better drunk young so I would
encourage you to use a clearing agent.

Ray
"Adam Preble" > wrote in message
...
> I'm working on winemaking basics by making small batches of white wine. I
> am using that Welch's white grape concentrate that has been discussed on
> here before. I prepare a gallon, which gets me four bottles easy, with a
> little leftover that can be discarded as gunk. This first batch tastes all
> right, but it's very cloudy. I'm hoping for some clarifying tips, and
> I've also become concerned with oxidation.
>
> I read some things in the FAQ about clarifying, and I outright adding
> clarifying agents to the first wine I ever made--it was a kit and had
> betonite included. That wine still has some clarity problems, which I
> presume will subside with age. While that wine was a red, I made a white
> this time, and want to drink it right away. So I'm a little impatient.
>
> For the secondary fermentation, I had dabbled with chilling the must in
> the refridgerator. This seemed to help to some extent, just looking at
> all the crap that had settled to the bottom. I had let it sit for a
> little over a week. That was a good idea, but what likely wasn't a good
> idea was trying to rack through a coffee filter going between primary and
> secondary. I thought it'd take out some of the yeast flavor, but some of
> the hobo wine people I've been talking to about this probably just do it
> out of superstition.
>
> That racking step had me concerned about oxidation. It took a lot of time
> to filter that gallon, and everything was exposed to air during this time
> (30 minutes or so). Once in the secondary, the container was filled
> almost to the top and appropriately sealed. Was I invited trouble during
> that racking?
>
> I have some bentonite on supply, but I wanted to see how chilling would
> help. It looks like it's a good idea to use bentonite with chilling, and
> that's likely what I'll use next time. However, I was curious how
> effective different clarifying techniques ultimately are. Say, would I
> have had a clearer wine if I had just used bentonite without
> refridgeration?
>
> I should also add this wine smells of yeast too, even if it doesn't taste
> of it. Perhaps priority one should be to get rid of that; I figure
> unclear is related.

Ray Calvert wrote:
> I have only made these wines in 5 gal. batches and use superklear. But
> superklear comes in premeasured packets for 5 gallons and it can not be
> opened and then used later. There is no problem with letting the wine have
> 30 min. air contact while racking and working with it if you do not do it
> more than a few times before it goes into bottle.
>
> For future batches you could probably use the same technique used in
> commercial batches. They add the betonite at the start of fermentation so
> it percolates with the yeast and then settles at the end.
>
> Do not drink it cloudy. Work at getting it clear. It will taste and smell
> much better. Most of my wine I try to let patience clear it. Time will
> work. But for this particular wine, it is better drunk young so I would
> encourage you to use a clearing agent.
>
Is there also a general practice of using bentonite during secondary
fermentation? I somehow got it in my head that is when it's generally
used. On the newsgroup, I've been hearing more people than not
recommending it be used at the beginning of the primary fermentation.

Times change and practices change. In years past I had never heard of it
being used except after a wine was finished. Then I started making some kit
wines and they add it while the wine is fermenting and it works great. I
have read where some add it in primary and some in secondary. I do not
think that matters as it will not settle till the fermentation slows anyway.

Ray

"Adam Preble" > wrote in message
...
> Ray Calvert wrote:
>> I have only made these wines in 5 gal. batches and use superklear. But
>> superklear comes in premeasured packets for 5 gallons and it can not be
>> opened and then used later. There is no problem with letting the wine
>> have 30 min. air contact while racking and working with it if you do not
>> do it more than a few times before it goes into bottle.
>>
>> For future batches you could probably use the same technique used in
>> commercial batches. They add the betonite at the start of fermentation
>> so it percolates with the yeast and then settles at the end.
>>
>> Do not drink it cloudy. Work at getting it clear. It will taste and
>> smell much better. Most of my wine I try to let patience clear it. Time
>> will work. But for this particular wine, it is better drunk young so I
>> would encourage you to use a clearing agent.
>>
> Is there also a general practice of using bentonite during secondary
> fermentation? I somehow got it in my head that is when it's generally
> used. On the newsgroup, I've been hearing more people than not
> recommending it be used at the beginning of the primary fermentation.