Hi and thank you for your attentions and replies.
but "i've got admit that i'm a little bit confused "(thanx pinkfloyd)
what should i do ?
it means that i shouldn't add any yeast to it ? and it begin to ferment
?
i shouldn't wash the grapes ? i heard that if we don't add any yeast it
become to "vinegar" , is it right ?
thanx all

"Alireza" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi and thank you for your attentions and replies.
> but "i've got admit that i'm a little bit confused "(thanx pinkfloyd)
> what should i do ?
> it means that i shouldn't add any yeast to it ? and it begin to ferment
> ?
> i shouldn't wash the grapes ? i heard that if we don't add any yeast it
> become to "vinegar" , is it right ?

So called "natural" fermentations (i.e., no added yeast) will work, and many
swear by them. OTOH, I consider it a needless risk to rely on the wild
yeast to reliably accomplish a clean fermentation. Yeast is cheap but your
time is dear, so why take unnecessary chances?

It is not necessary or even desirable to wash grapes prior to fermentation.
Whatever dirt, etc. is on them will end up in the discarded lees after the
first racking. Just be sure to sulfite the wine after it finishes
fermentation, and top up the containers to keep air away and you should be
OK. BTW, don't let the wine sit on its lees for too long prior to the first
racking or you may end up with a nasty surprise (H2S).

Tom S

Aaaaah, now i get it... the extra stuff is the terroir in wines that I
keep hearing about!!!!

OTOH it doesn't HURT to wash the grapes... LOL
(tho not commercially economical).

That being said, a wet grape is a grape just waiting to grow mold.
Good idea if you are going to wash them, sulfite them immediately after
the wash step (i.e. the final dip could be in 20-50ppm free SO2
potassium metabisulfite solution). The meta residue will get diluted to
next to nothing when you crush the grapes.

Gene

Tom S wrote:
> "Alireza" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>Hi and thank you for your attentions and replies.
>>but "i've got admit that i'm a little bit confused "(thanx pinkfloyd)
>>what should i do ?
>>it means that i shouldn't add any yeast to it ? and it begin to ferment
>>?
>>i shouldn't wash the grapes ? i heard that if we don't add any yeast it
>>become to "vinegar" , is it right ?
>
>
> So called "natural" fermentations (i.e., no added yeast) will work, and many
> swear by them. OTOH, I consider it a needless risk to rely on the wild
> yeast to reliably accomplish a clean fermentation. Yeast is cheap but your
> time is dear, so why take unnecessary chances?
>
> It is not necessary or even desirable to wash grapes prior to fermentation.
> Whatever dirt, etc. is on them will end up in the discarded lees after the
> first racking. Just be sure to sulfite the wine after it finishes
> fermentation, and top up the containers to keep air away and you should be
> OK. BTW, don't let the wine sit on its lees for too long prior to the first
> racking or you may end up with a nasty surprise (H2S).
>
> Tom S
>
>

"gene" > wrote in message
. ..
> Aaaaah, now i get it... the extra stuff is the terroir in wines that I
> keep hearing about!!!!
>
> OTOH it doesn't HURT to wash the grapes... LOL
> (tho not commercially economical).

Actually, there _is_ a downside to washing grapes (aside from the mold
possibilities), and that's dilution. You'd be adding water to the
must/juice, and unless you've got some fruit that's a touch overripe I
wouldn't recommend washing the grapes.

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
> "gene" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Aaaaah, now i get it... the extra stuff is the terroir in wines that I
>>keep hearing about!!!!
>>
>>OTOH it doesn't HURT to wash the grapes... LOL
>>(tho not commercially economical).
>
>
> Actually, there _is_ a downside to washing grapes (aside from the mold
> possibilities), and that's dilution. You'd be adding water to the
> must/juice, and unless you've got some fruit that's a touch overripe I
> wouldn't recommend washing the grapes.
>
> Tom S
>
>
Yep, you're right again, Tom. Dilution would be significant if going
straight from wash to destem/press.

My 18" Patton fan and wire mesh drying racks solve the dilution problem,
and the grapes are nice and cool the next morning when I destem/press.
Of course, I'm only doing a few hundred pounds batch size. Hard to
imagine doing that for a half ton of grapes or more. And even harder to
imagine doing it anywhere an evaporative cooler isn't effective.

My rationale for washing the grapes is to lessen the 'earthy' flavors
and proteins which (admittedly minor) would otherwise be extracted
during fermentation (from the humus/dust/bird droppings on my often very
dusty, second growth harvest). Last year they even had fertilizer dust
residue, cuz the vineyard management folks started soil amendment (for
this year) before I harvested.

I find the washing/drying a small price to pay for getting free grapes.
And the wine from them is pretty good, despite my anal retentiveness.

Anyone else as obsessive as me?

Gene

Just my take on this:

In many areas of Europe where grapes have been grown for hundreds, if not
thousands of years, natural yeast has developed in the area that is good
wine yeast. After all, the wine was made in the same area and the yeast
that will ferment good high alcohol wine would multiply best in the wine.
The must is then spread back to the soil so you are culturing yeast between
the winery and the vineyard and end up with good wine yeast dominating. It
is not actually wild yeast anymore. Now if you get your grapes from one of
these areas, you have a real good chance of having a good ferment from the
yeast on the grape skins.

If you are getting your grapes from some area in the US where grapes have
not been grown for hundreds of years and where the wine may not be made in
the vineyard and the pumice may not be spread back in the field ... it may
be a bit more iffy. But it will probably still work.

Then again, good wine yeast is cheap. Grapes and time are expensive. Why
take chances. I buy yeast.

Ray

"Alireza" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi and thank you for your attentions and replies.
> but "i've got admit that i'm a little bit confused "(thanx pinkfloyd)
> what should i do ?
> it means that i shouldn't add any yeast to it ? and it begin to ferment
> ?
> i shouldn't wash the grapes ? i heard that if we don't add any yeast it
> become to "vinegar" , is it right ?
> thanx all
>

Alireza wrote:
> Hi and thank you for your attentions and replies.
> but "i've got admit that i'm a little bit confused "(thanx pinkfloyd)
> what should i do ?
> it means that i shouldn't add any yeast to it ? and it begin to ferment
> ?

Wild yeast is simply a yeast that is not from a package. It is
recommended to use a packaged yeast for your wine, since it gives you
some control over the type of yeast. The wild yeast that ends up taking
hold of your fermentation process may be most suitable for breads, which
is not what you want in your expensive juice. (It could also be
suitable for wine - but you won't know what you've got fermenting until
it's all over, so most people don't think it's worth the risk).

> i shouldn't wash the grapes ? i heard that if we don't add any yeast it
> become to "vinegar" , is it right ?

A (crushed) campden tablet for each gallon of must when you first start
your process should knock out any wild yeasts. 12-24 hours after adding
the campden, you should add the yeast of your choice.

Vinegar can result if you allow oxygen to get into your fermented must.
You want oxygen during the first week, but after that you don't.
That's when you should rack your must from the bucket to a carboy that's
been fitted with an airlock.

Woods

> thanx all
>