My recent batch of pinot gris seems to have difficulty clearing. After
fermentation completed, I allowed the lees to settle then fined with
bentonite and isinglass - these agent were added one right after the
other. After a couple of weeks the wine cleared at cellar temp - about
62 degrees F. I then decided to cold stabilize the wine as well to
minimize handling. Within 24 hrs of placing the wine in my spare frig,
it began to cloud up again. Now after 2 weeks in the frig it's still
cloudy. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
RD

Shouldn't the bentonite and isinglass be added at different times? One
is + and the other is -. If you add them at the same time they would
counteract each other.


RD wrote:
> My recent batch of pinot gris seems to have difficulty clearing. After
> fermentation completed, I allowed the lees to settle then fined with
> bentonite and isinglass - these agent were added one right after the
> other. After a couple of weeks the wine cleared at cellar temp - about
> 62 degrees F. I then decided to cold stabilize the wine as well to
> minimize handling. Within 24 hrs of placing the wine in my spare frig,
> it began to cloud up again. Now after 2 weeks in the frig it's still
> cloudy. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> RD
>

I'm assuming you mean you added them at the same time basically? Did
you wait between each?


RD wrote:
> My recent batch of pinot gris seems to have difficulty clearing. After
> fermentation completed, I allowed the lees to settle then fined with
> bentonite and isinglass - these agent were added one right after the
> other. After a couple of weeks the wine cleared at cellar temp - about
> 62 degrees F. I then decided to cold stabilize the wine as well to
> minimize handling. Within 24 hrs of placing the wine in my spare frig,
> it began to cloud up again. Now after 2 weeks in the frig it's still
> cloudy. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> RD
>

What I meant was they were added and mixed about 15 minutes apart.
This is the first time I've attempted to do this without separate
rackings, but I've read discussions on fining regimens here from
experienced winemakers in this group who do this routinely.

RD

I don't see how that is possible. Logically your putting a + and a -
fining agent together. Their going to attract one another instead of
what their supposed to attract. Though I don't have practical
experience. I've been reading Jon Iverson's book and I made a Pinot
from a kit. The Bentonite went it at fermentation and then the
isinglass went in at first racking.

I just racked it again today and it is quite clear.


RD wrote:
> What I meant was they were added and mixed about 15 minutes apart.
> This is the first time I've attempted to do this without separate
> rackings, but I've read discussions on fining regimens here from
> experienced winemakers in this group who do this routinely.
>
> RD
>

Remember that Bentonite and Isinglass are not the only particles in the
mix. They were not added together then added to the wine. They were
prepared separately then added to the wine sequentially. Wine has
quite a bit more negatively- and positively-charged molecules that
would likely interfere with what you suggest. Secondly, you're
assuming that the complexes formed between Bentonite and positively
charged particles would readily dissociated in favor of a complex with
the Isinglass. I'm not sure this is true. As I say, the wine cleared
ok at cellar temp. It was only after placing it in the frig to cold
stabilize that the cloudiness reappeared.

RD,

Sounds to me like you precipitated out a cloud of microscopic tartrate
crystals by the rapid chilling. If so, it should eventually settle by
itself, or you could bring the wine back up to a warm room temp to
redissolve the cloud. A more gradual cooling with a pinch of cream of
tartar for seed crystals might promote the formation of larger, heavier
particles which would settle better.



--


Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA

This was my initial thought as well. I forgot to mention that it has
been in the frig for nearly 3 weeks now and is still cloudy.

RD

RD wrote:
> This was my initial thought as well. I forgot to mention that it has
> been in the frig for nearly 3 weeks now and is still cloudy.
>
> RD

How cold is your fridge? I had the same thing happen last year with 2
whites and found out only later that my fridge was set on medium when I
had cold stabilized. Apparently, even a month in the fridge at that
setting was not enough, even with seeding with cream of tartar. I had
to bump the setting to high and restabilize to get rid of the haze.

Pp

It's set at the coldest setting - about 40F. This setting has been
sufficient to chill proof several batches of riesling in the past.

RD

RD wrote:
> It's set at the coldest setting - about 40F. This setting has been
> sufficient to chill proof several batches of riesling in the past.
>
> RD

That might not be cold enough, or the wine might need more time in the
fridge at that temperature. My max setting was at around 34F.

Past experience can be like they say for investments - no guarantee of
future results. I also didn't have any issues with cold stabilization
in a fridge until last year. The grapes/juice are different every
year...

Pp

Agreed. I have time to wait it out a bit and see how it goes.

Thanks,
RD