I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I will
have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering the 55l
and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I set
these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.

To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they are
high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the floor.
How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have seen are
too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What would be a
practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?

thanks
Joe

"Joe" > wrote in message
. ..
>I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I
>will have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering the
>55l and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I
>set these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.
>
> To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they
> are high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the
> floor. How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have
> seen are too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What
> would be a practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?

If you don't wish to use a pump to move the wine, you could just build a
rack that'll support the barrel a foot or two above the floor.

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I
>>will have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering the
>>55l and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I
>>set these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.
>>
>>To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they
>>are high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the
>>floor. How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have
>>seen are too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What
>>would be a practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?
>
>
> If you don't wish to use a pump to move the wine, you could just build a
> rack that'll support the barrel a foot or two above the floor.

My rack is 30" high and supports two 120 liter barrels side by side.
Facilitates siphoning when bottling and saves the back. I also use a
pump http://www.liverani.com/frame/fra.prod2.htm to transfer from
plastic barrels to oak and when racking.

Steve



Steve

Joe wrote:

> I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I
> will have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering
> the 55l
> and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I set
> these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.
>
> To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they
> are high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the
> floor. How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have
> seen are
> too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What would be
> a practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?
>
> thanks
> Joe

If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
coasters on the bottom of the legs. That way you can move it about and are
not stuck with it sitting in one place. They are not cheap - about $10 to
$12 dollars each but worth it in my opinion.

>> I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I
>> will have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering
>> the 55l
>> and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I set
>> these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.
>>
>> To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they
>> are high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the
>> floor. How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have
>> seen are
>> too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What would
>> be
>> a practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?
>>
>> thanks
>> Joe
>
> If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
> coasters on the bottom of the legs. That way you can move it about and
> are
> not stuck with it sitting in one place. They are not cheap - about $10 to
> $12 dollars each but worth it in my opinion.

Looks like I lucked out. My local supply store has a French 115L for 660
$CA plus tax.
I was actually hoping for a 55L but this will have to do. I will use it for
red wines (pinot noir and cabs).
I have found a lot of good info in this group on barrel maintenance but I
still have a few questions:

- should I perform MLF in the barrel.
- will I be bottling from the barrel at some point
- Does wine stop acquiring oak flavor after a while? How much use is
required before I can age the wine in the barrel for 1 yr.

thanks
Joe

Joe wrote:

>>> I am seriously considering getting an oak barrel(s). I don't believe I
>>> will have the wine volume to fill the standard 220L so I am considering
>>> the 55l
>>> and 110L sizes. One question that I am struggling with is how will I
>>> set these up to facilitate standard wine making operations.
>>>
>>> To date I work with various size DJs. I built some wine tables so they
>>> are high enough so I can syphon from the Dj on the table to a DJ on the
>>> floor. How would this work with barrels most of the barrel stands I have
>>> seen are
>>> too low for this method? Will I need to start using pumps? What would
>>> be
>>> a practical wine cellar design to accomodate barrels?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Joe
>>
>> If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
>> coasters on the bottom of the legs. That way you can move it about and
>> are
>> not stuck with it sitting in one place. They are not cheap - about $10 to
>> $12 dollars each but worth it in my opinion.
>
> Looks like I lucked out. My local supply store has a French 115L for 660
> $CA plus tax.
> I was actually hoping for a 55L but this will have to do. I will use it
> for red wines (pinot noir and cabs).
> I have found a lot of good info in this group on barrel maintenance but I
> still have a few questions:
>
> - should I perform MLF in the barrel.

Yes, you can but remember that the ML will stay in the barrel so don't put
any wine in there that you don't want to go through ML.

> - will I be bottling from the barrel at some point

You could but you will probably want to transfer it from barrel to another
container. You don't have to move it all at once. In other words you
don't have to have a 115L container and move all at one time. You could
rack out say 5 gallons and bottle and then rack out 5 more gallons and
bottle until your barrel is empty. I would suggest you do it all at one
bottling and not leave your barrel empty for long.

> - Does wine stop acquiring oak flavor after a while? How much use is
> required before I can age the wine in the barrel for 1 yr.

That depends on your taste. Remember to keep your barrel topped up. It
will probably require up to half a bottle weekly to keep it topped up.
Part of topping up should include sampling to see how things are coming
along.

Also remember that Free SO2 does not last that long in a barrel. You should
be sure to check that level every month or two.

>
> thanks
> Joe

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
> If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
> coasters on the bottom of the legs.

I'm sure Paul meant to say "casters" - not "coasters". :^)
Just be sure they're heavy duty enough to support a full barrel of wine and
the weight of the rack itself. Figuring a 50% margin, they need to be
capable of supporting ~150 pounds apiece.

Tom S

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> Looks like I lucked out. My local supply store has a French 115L for 660
> $CA plus tax.
> I was actually hoping for a 55L but this will have to do. I will use it
> for red wines (pinot noir and cabs).
> I have found a lot of good info in this group on barrel maintenance but I
> still have a few questions:
>
> - should I perform MLF in the barrel.

Yes - under airlock and topped nearly brimfull. Remember that you will then
have an ML+ barrel.

> - will I be bottling from the barrel at some point

You _could_, but the likelihood of sucking lees into the bottles becomes
greater as you go farther down into the barrel. A couple of careful
rackings could prevent that, but you should consider bulk aging the wine for
a year or so in neutral (glass or stainless) storage prior to bottling.
That will give the wine time to drop out much of the heavy tannins that
would otherwise precipitate in the bottle and necessitate decanting of each
bottle.

> - Does wine stop acquiring oak flavor after a while?

No, but it tapers off some. As the wine picks up oak flavor from the barrel
there remains that much less flavor in the wood. After a long time the
concentration of oak flavor in the wine would reach equilibrium with the
concentration in the wood itself - but by then the wine would be very
overoaked.

How much use is
> required before I can age the wine in the barrel for 1 yr.

Considering that this is a new French barrel, if you had the right fruit,
say a big Cabernet, you might be able to leave it in a year in its first
use. It depends a lot on your taste. It also depends on the wine you're
aging.

Whatever you do, be sure that you keep your sulfur up in the wine in barrel
(after ML is complete, of course) and maintain the barrel topped up and
bunged tight. BTW, use a silicone bung - not a wooden bung. They seal
better, are more sanitary and don't tend to crack the bung stave so easily.

Last item: Be sure to taste and top up frequently; once a week or so is
good. It's a demanding job, but you gotta maintain rigorous QC! ;^D

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
>>coasters on the bottom of the legs.
>
>
> I'm sure Paul meant to say "casters" - not "coasters". :^)
> Just be sure they're heavy duty enough to support a full barrel of wine and
> the weight of the rack itself. Figuring a 50% margin, they need to be
> capable of supporting ~150 pounds apiece.
>
> Tom S
>
>

And if you do put casters on 'em, be aware that if you use 'soft' rubber
casters, they may develop flat spots from sitting in the same position
for an extended time under a such weighty load.

Gene

>>>If you build a support for your barrels, I found it a good idea to put
>>>coasters on the bottom of the legs.
>>
>>
>> I'm sure Paul meant to say "casters" - not "coasters". :^)
>> Just be sure they're heavy duty enough to support a full barrel of wine
>> and the weight of the rack itself. Figuring a 50% margin, they need to
>> be capable of supporting ~150 pounds apiece.
>>
>> Tom S
>
> And if you do put casters on 'em, be aware that if you use 'soft' rubber
> casters, they may develop flat spots from sitting in the same position for
> an extended time under a such weighty load.
>
> Gene

Thanks to all for the great information!!

I picked up the barrel today. I opted for a 55L French instead of the
bigger size. ( I usually make 15 Gal batches). I got a feeling this will
not be my last barrel if it works out.
I haven't opened it yet but the barrel came wrapped up in paper and
cardboard. Two of us should be able to carry the barrel full so I am
designing a stand to fit in a corner of the wine cellar. I will forgo the
casters for this one.
I am thinking of putting in a 2003 Chardonnay (mediocre tart wine) to start
followed by a 2004 Baco Noir and then 2004 Cab Franc.

Joe

Hi Tom
Thanks for the tips. I feel much more comfortable now.
I had been thinking the 1st wine in the barrel could be a 15 Gal batch of
Cab Sauv once it finishes fermenting rack it to a DJ for a few days to drop
the gross lees and then in the prepared barrel and inoculate with MLF.
But I like your idea of aging the wine 1yr before putting in the barrel.
Do I need 2 barrels? How many barrels do hobby home winemakers tend to
have?

Joe

>> - should I perform MLF in the barrel.
>
> Yes - under airlock and topped nearly brimfull. Remember that you will
> then have an ML+ barrel.
>
>> - will I be bottling from the barrel at some point
>
> You _could_, but the likelihood of sucking lees into the bottles becomes
> greater as you go farther down into the barrel. A couple of careful
> rackings could prevent that, but you should consider bulk aging the wine
> for a year or so in neutral (glass or stainless) storage prior to
> bottling. That will give the wine time to drop out much of the heavy
> tannins that would otherwise precipitate in the bottle and necessitate
> decanting of each bottle.
>
>> - Does wine stop acquiring oak flavor after a while?
>
> No, but it tapers off some. As the wine picks up oak flavor from the
> barrel there remains that much less flavor in the wood. After a long time
> the concentration of oak flavor in the wine would reach equilibrium with
> the concentration in the wood itself - but by then the wine would be very
> overoaked.
>
> How much use is
>> required before I can age the wine in the barrel for 1 yr.
>
> Considering that this is a new French barrel, if you had the right fruit,
> say a big Cabernet, you might be able to leave it in a year in its first
> use. It depends a lot on your taste. It also depends on the wine you're
> aging.
>
> Whatever you do, be sure that you keep your sulfur up in the wine in
> barrel (after ML is complete, of course) and maintain the barrel topped up
> and bunged tight. BTW, use a silicone bung - not a wooden bung. They
> seal better, are more sanitary and don't tend to crack the bung stave so
> easily.
>
> Last item: Be sure to taste and top up frequently; once a week or so is
> good. It's a demanding job, but you gotta maintain rigorous QC! ;^D
>
> Tom S
>