Referring back to the "Why is the airlock moving???" post from a
couple weeks ago, I promised an answer to the group. We spun down a
sample of my apple wine on a cenrifuge and inspected under a
microscope at 1000X. We found some solid particulates but no evidence
of biological activity of any kind (yeast or bacteria). My airlocks
are still moving slowly (1 bubble ever 15 minutes or so) so I suppose
I'll have to assume it's CO2 gas. I wonder how much longer this will
go on. I wonder if i's safe to bottle with slight residual CO2 trapped
in suspension. Either way I'm sleeping easier knowing there's no
microbial toga party going on in the wine :-)

Thanks to the group for your valuable input. I'm learning so much more
from you guys than I ever would have without the benefit of this news
group.

Cheers!
Charles

You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It is
what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you drink
it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There are
various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The most
common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for 3 min.
Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in primary and
check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not repeat and bottle.

Ray

"Charles E" > wrote in message
news
> Referring back to the "Why is the airlock moving???" post from a
> couple weeks ago, I promised an answer to the group. We spun down a
> sample of my apple wine on a cenrifuge and inspected under a
> microscope at 1000X. We found some solid particulates but no evidence
> of biological activity of any kind (yeast or bacteria). My airlocks
> are still moving slowly (1 bubble ever 15 minutes or so) so I suppose
> I'll have to assume it's CO2 gas. I wonder how much longer this will
> go on. I wonder if i's safe to bottle with slight residual CO2 trapped
> in suspension. Either way I'm sleeping easier knowing there's no
> microbial toga party going on in the wine :-)
>
> Thanks to the group for your valuable input. I'm learning so much more
> from you guys than I ever would have without the benefit of this news
> group.
>
> Cheers!
> Charles

I've seen "degassers" in the grape and granary catalog.I made my own
out of a small whisk, and mounted to a plastic rod that I can chuck in
a cordless drill, squeezed down enough to fit through the neck of a
carboy. You have to be patient so that you don't send a geyser of wine
up and out of the neck, but it works well. It's a must have tool if
you're making wine from kits.

"Ray Calvert" > wrote in message
. net...
> You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It
> is what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you
> drink it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There
> are various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The
> most common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for
> 3 min. Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in
> primary and check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not
> repeat and bottle.
>
> Ray

I don't know what I am doing differently from others but I have NEVER had a
problem with CO2 in wine - especially after racking.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:23:41 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>
>"Ray Calvert" > wrote in message
.net...
>> You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It
>> is what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you
>> drink it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There
>> are various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The
>> most common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for
>> 3 min. Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in
>> primary and check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not
>> repeat and bottle.
>>
>> Ray
>
>I don't know what I am doing differently from others but I have NEVER had a
>problem with CO2 in wine - especially after racking.
>

I looked at methods kit manufacturers recommend for their products...
Most recommend stiring in a carboy. They BETTER be right, their
survival depends on it. I have never gone wrong using Brew
King/Winexpert methods...

A.J.

I fermented cold (around 60F), used slow moving yeast (Assmanshausen),
and stopped fermentation prematurely at approximately 3 BRIX. I
suppose any or all of these could have contributed to residual CO2.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:23:41 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>
>"Ray Calvert" > wrote in message
.net...
>> You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It
>> is what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you
>> drink it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There
>> are various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The
>> most common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for
>> 3 min. Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in
>> primary and check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not
>> repeat and bottle.
>>
>> Ray
>
>I don't know what I am doing differently from others but I have NEVER had a
>problem with CO2 in wine - especially after racking.
>

Creative!

On 13 Dec 2005 12:28:58 -0800, "treetoad"
> wrote:

>I've seen "degassers" in the grape and granary catalog.I made my own
>out of a small whisk, and mounted to a plastic rod that I can chuck in
>a cordless drill, squeezed down enough to fit through the neck of a
>carboy. You have to be patient so that you don't send a geyser of wine
>up and out of the neck, but it works well. It's a must have tool if
>you're making wine from kits.

Since this is apple wine, I have been hyper-sensative about exposure
to air throughout the process. I've religiously purged all carboys
with Argon and made sure sulfite levels stay on the mark. Perhaps I
went a little too far ;-) Would your method below cause the delicate
apple wine to oxidize noticably?

Either way, I'm happy to hear than bottling with some residual CO2
will not cause the cork to pop. I actually recall drinking a Muscato
de Oro' from Robert Mondavi several years ago that tasted like you
described and I actually liked it. I may go ahead and bottle.

Thanks again for the great advice!

Charles

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:56:00 GMT, "Ray Calvert"
> wrote:

>You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It is
>what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you drink
>it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There are
>various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The most
>common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for 3 min.
>Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in primary and
>check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not repeat and bottle.
>
>Ray
>
>"Charles E" > wrote in message
>news
>> Referring back to the "Why is the airlock moving???" post from a
>> couple weeks ago, I promised an answer to the group. We spun down a
>> sample of my apple wine on a cenrifuge and inspected under a
>> microscope at 1000X. We found some solid particulates but no evidence
>> of biological activity of any kind (yeast or bacteria). My airlocks
>> are still moving slowly (1 bubble ever 15 minutes or so) so I suppose
>> I'll have to assume it's CO2 gas. I wonder how much longer this will
>> go on. I wonder if i's safe to bottle with slight residual CO2 trapped
>> in suspension. Either way I'm sleeping easier knowing there's no
>> microbial toga party going on in the wine :-)
>>
>> Thanks to the group for your valuable input. I'm learning so much more
>> from you guys than I ever would have without the benefit of this news
>> group.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Charles
>

If you purge the wine with argon the CO2 will be gone as a heads up.
This is apple, I wonder if you might have a malolactic fermentation
going on. You need pH in the right range and lower SO2 for that to be
it, The bubbles are just tiny in the carboy if you see them at all with
MLF. I don't recall whether we ruled that out. SO2 < 20 PPM and pH
over 3.2 are usually conducive to MLF.
It's an odd fermentation, bacteria consume malic and excrete CO2 and
lactic acid. It softens a wine, but I don't know if it's something you
do normally with apple wines, most fruit wines are not aiming for
complexity, they aim for a fresh fruit forward taste.

Joe

Charles E wrote:
> Since this is apple wine, I have been hyper-sensative about exposure
> to air throughout the process. I've religiously purged all carboys
> with Argon and made sure sulfite levels stay on the mark. Perhaps I
> went a little too far ;-) Would your method below cause the delicate
> apple wine to oxidize noticably?
>
> Either way, I'm happy to hear than bottling with some residual CO2
> will not cause the cork to pop. I actually recall drinking a Muscato
> de Oro' from Robert Mondavi several years ago that tasted like you
> described and I actually liked it. I may go ahead and bottle.
>
> Thanks again for the great advice!
>
> Charles
>
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:56:00 GMT, "Ray Calvert"
> > wrote:
>
> >You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It is
> >what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you drink
> >it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There are
> >various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The most
> >common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it for 3 min.
> >Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in primary and
> >check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not repeat and bottle.
> >
> >Ray
> >
> >"Charles E" > wrote in message
> >news
> >> Referring back to the "Why is the airlock moving???" post from a
> >> couple weeks ago, I promised an answer to the group. We spun down a
> >> sample of my apple wine on a cenrifuge and inspected under a
> >> microscope at 1000X. We found some solid particulates but no evidence
> >> of biological activity of any kind (yeast or bacteria). My airlocks
> >> are still moving slowly (1 bubble ever 15 minutes or so) so I suppose
> >> I'll have to assume it's CO2 gas. I wonder how much longer this will
> >> go on. I wonder if i's safe to bottle with slight residual CO2 trapped
> >> in suspension. Either way I'm sleeping easier knowing there's no
> >> microbial toga party going on in the wine :-)
> >>
> >> Thanks to the group for your valuable input. I'm learning so much more
> >> from you guys than I ever would have without the benefit of this news
> >> group.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >> Charles
> >

I'm adding that to my christmas list. You going into business selling
them? Might be better than those S shaped drill attachments. I don't
like using them.
DAve

Charles E wrote:
> Creative!
>
> On 13 Dec 2005 12:28:58 -0800, "treetoad"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I've seen "degassers" in the grape and granary catalog.I made my own
>>out of a small whisk, and mounted to a plastic rod that I can chuck in
>>a cordless drill, squeezed down enough to fit through the neck of a
>>carboy. You have to be patient so that you don't send a geyser of wine
>>up and out of the neck, but it works well. It's a must have tool if
>>you're making wine from kits.
>
>

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ray Calvert" > wrote in message
> . net...
>> You can bottle with the dissolved CO2. Some people like it that way. It
>> is what is called Piquant. The CO2 give a prickling to the tongue as you
>> drink it, almost like bubbles. I do not like it but that is me. There
>> are various methods of degassing if you want to get it over with. The
>> most common is to rack to a primary bucket and stir the heck out of it
>> for 3 min. Let it rest for 3 min. Repeat about 3 times. Put it back in
>> primary and check it after a week. It will probably be fine. If not
>> repeat and bottle.
>>
>> Ray
>
> I don't know what I am doing differently from others but I have NEVER had
> a problem with CO2 in wine - especially after racking.
>

If you follow the directions for wine kits and bottle at 6 weeks or so, I
think you will fine CO2. Of course they include directions that will get
rid of it. If I let wine, kit or otherwise, bulk age for at least 6 months
I do not have a problem with CO2. In the last few years I have made some
non kit wines that I wanted to bottle at 3 months or less. Some of these
have had the CO2 problem. It can be eliminated by degassing.

Ray

Joe raises a very valid concern. MLF is a bad thing with apple wine. It
will leave it utterly insipid. You should follow this up.

Ray

Ray Calvert wrote:
> Joe raises a very valid concern. MLF is a bad thing with apple wine. It
> will leave it utterly insipid. You should follow this up.
>
> Ray

I thought the wine went under a microscope and no evidence of bio
activity was found - that should definitely rule out ML, no?

Pp

I dunno, I thought the sample was centrifuged first before examining at
1000X; but could be reading that into the post.

Joe

I dunno, I thought the sample was centrifuged first before examining at
1000X; but could be reading that into the post.

Joe

No biological evidence found. We spun down the wine in a centrifuge to
consolidate any bacteria or yeast making it easier to identify. This
is the procedure used with blood also.

This wine is clean. Must conclude CO2...

Thanks,
Charles

On 14 Dec 2005 11:42:29 -0800, "pp" > wrote:

>
>Ray Calvert wrote:
>> Joe raises a very valid concern. MLF is a bad thing with apple wine. It
>> will leave it utterly insipid. You should follow this up.
>>
>> Ray
>
>I thought the wine went under a microscope and no evidence of bio
>activity was found - that should definitely rule out ML, no?
>
>Pp

OK , you can remove the CO2 with that argon, it's more efficient if you
use a dispersion tube. You can leave it alone if you like the taste
the way it is too. If you decide to remove it you may want to let it
sit a few weeks just to be sure it's stable.
Joe

If there is no activity, no yeast or MLF then you should be able to degas
and it will stay degassed.

Ray

"Charles E" > wrote in message
news
> No biological evidence found. We spun down the wine in a centrifuge to
> consolidate any bacteria or yeast making it easier to identify. This
> is the procedure used with blood also.
>
> This wine is clean. Must conclude CO2...
>
> Thanks,
> Charles
>
> On 14 Dec 2005 11:42:29 -0800, "pp" > wrote:
>
>>
>>Ray Calvert wrote:
>>> Joe raises a very valid concern. MLF is a bad thing with apple wine.
>>> It
>>> will leave it utterly insipid. You should follow this up.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>
>>I thought the wine went under a microscope and no evidence of bio
>>activity was found - that should definitely rule out ML, no?
>>
>>Pp
>