My goodness me this NG has gone down hill. It is, however, good to see one
or two "oldies" ( not meaning age) like Tom S dishing out very patient
advice. Even Ray Calvert is reliable and rarely gets it wrong. But there
seems to be a sad loss of much experience here, which is being replaced by
those whose advice is based on very little truth or real winemaking
experience.

So its a last fond farewell to rec.crafts.winemaking.

it has been fun---- occasionally

:-)
Bye guys and girls.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk ( under reconstruction)

Not entirely sure what that was all about. Gloating of sorts perhaps? I
have to agree with him a little bit about the group going downhill. It
certainly not as active as it once was.

So long Trevor. Sorry...Can't say I agree with you that r.c.w. has changed
that much. Lots of new winemaker questions that could have been avoided if
the people had read Lum's, Ben's and Jack' sites or bought a few good books.
But it's always been that way. I don't mind answering new winemaker
questions but others usually beat me to it. In this late winter season,
here in the US, most of us are getting ready for the new grape season and
last year's wine is made and some already bottled. So, it's country wine
and kit questions. I'm sure you could contribute a lot more with your past
experience owing a pub and making many types of country and grape wines.
I'll miss your input.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Pinky" > wrote in message
. uk...
> My goodness me this NG has gone down hill. It is, however, good to see one
> or two "oldies" ( not meaning age) like Tom S dishing out very patient
> advice. Even Ray Calvert is reliable and rarely gets it wrong. But there
> seems to be a sad loss of much experience here, which is being replaced by
> those whose advice is based on very little truth or real winemaking
> experience.
>
> So its a last fond farewell to rec.crafts.winemaking.
>
> it has been fun---- occasionally
>
> :-)
> Bye guys and girls.
>
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire,
> England, United Kingdom.
> www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk ( under reconstruction)
>

I'd like to say Thank You to everyone that has answered any of my
questions, provided encouragement or steered me in the right direction
in the last 1.5 or so years. And also to everyone that has provided
forthright help and coveyed thier experiences for the benefit of the
archives through the years. The fruit of your assitance is in the
glass. CHEERS to you!!

I don't know why people feel they need to flip everyone the bird when
they leave an NG. Maybe they image themselves as the reason for the
NG, or their ego can peel the life from an NG. Miserable folks love
company I suppose. But in my usenet experience those folks ran out of
constructive ideas or useful contributions long before the temper
tantrum.


Thank you so very much!
Steve noobie
Oregon




On 11 Mar 2006 17:44:29 -0800, wrote:

>Not entirely sure what that was all about. Gloating of sorts perhaps? I
>have to agree with him a little bit about the group going downhill. It
>certainly not as active as it once was.

Trevor,

Thank you so much for sharing your opinion of this newsgroup. I'm sure
in your absence it will completely fall apart and lose any value
whatsoever. You've been such a frequent participant in this forum of
late... I count about... ZERO posts by you recently.

I've never understood how someone can become so conceited and
self-absorbed that they would think posting a going away message in a
Usenet newsgroup would be appropriate.

Regards,

Greg G.

William Frazier wrote:
> So long Trevor. Sorry...Can't say I agree with you that r.c.w. has changed
> that much. Lots of new winemaker questions that could have been avoided if
> the people had read Lum's, Ben's and Jack' sites or bought a few good books.
> But it's always been that way.

I would agree with that, Bill. Trevor contributed many useful posts on
country wines in the past, and I for one will miss that.

Usenet is voluntary and no one has to stay or go beyond what they feel
is appropriate. While the posting volume has gone down most of the
questions have been asked and answered; if this group is a victim of
it's own success that's a good thing. Google has made it very easy to
find just about anything on the net, that may have a lot to do with it
too.

Very few Usenet groups have been this civilized and this helpful to
newbies; I for one see no reason to stop posting.

Joe

**** that asshole this group rules.if it was not for you kick ass
people i would still be buying my wine.LONG LIVE THIS (NG)

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...

<snip>

; if this group is a victim of
> it's own success that's a good thing. >

<snip>

> Very few Usenet groups have been this civilized and this helpful to
> newbies; I for one see no reason to stop posting.
>
> Joe
>

Hi Joe

I agree. Newbies are the lifes blood of this group. Only when _they_
stop posting will this group die.

Frederick

I will miss Trevor's sage and wit. Sadly, his desire seems to be for
having Experts.Craft.Winemaking. When one of us 'newcomers' makes a
mistake in what we say, we appreciate the sages chiming in and setting
us right. I'd rather make a mistake and learn from it than to sit on my
hands and not take a chance. To me, discussions are what makes
Rec.Craft.Winemaking a treasure, and every contributor is important.

Gene

William Frazier wrote:
> So long Trevor. Sorry...Can't say I agree with you that r.c.w. has changed
> that much. Lots of new winemaker questions that could have been avoided if
> the people had read Lum's, Ben's and Jack' sites or bought a few good books.
> But it's always been that way. I don't mind answering new winemaker
> questions but others usually beat me to it. In this late winter season,
> here in the US, most of us are getting ready for the new grape season and
> last year's wine is made and some already bottled. So, it's country wine
> and kit questions. I'm sure you could contribute a lot more with your past
> experience owing a pub and making many types of country and grape wines.
> I'll miss your input.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> "Pinky" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>
>>My goodness me this NG has gone down hill. It is, however, good to see one
>>or two "oldies" ( not meaning age) like Tom S dishing out very patient
>>advice. Even Ray Calvert is reliable and rarely gets it wrong. But there
>>seems to be a sad loss of much experience here, which is being replaced by
>>those whose advice is based on very little truth or real winemaking
>>experience.
>>
>>So its a last fond farewell to rec.crafts.winemaking.
>>
>>it has been fun---- occasionally
>>
>>:-)
>>Bye guys and girls.
>>
>>--
>>Trevor A Panther
>>In South Yorkshire,
>>England, United Kingdom.
>>www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk ( under reconstruction)
>>
>
>
>

The only thing Pinky posts is goodbye messages ...

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off

outside of random abuse, that is ...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...020fe3a2dd33ef

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...e458b065c3ffbf

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...a5244c2377eeeb

Seriously Pinky, why all the hostility, there gotta be worse groups out
there than our current crop of noobs.

I had to laugh at this guy. Pretty funny self-worth he must have. Maybe
he'd make a good guest at a large party where you needed someone to act
snob-ish, and bor-ish. heehee.

I have learned a lot in this NG and read EVERY new posting for valuable
information, even If I am not taking my wine into Canada (for instance),
I learn from all the posts.

DAve

Pinky wrote:
> My goodness me this NG has gone down hill. It is, however, good to see one
> or two "oldies" ( not meaning age) like Tom S dishing out very patient
> advice. Even Ray Calvert is reliable and rarely gets it wrong. But there
> seems to be a sad loss of much experience here, which is being replaced by
> those whose advice is based on very little truth or real winemaking
> experience.
>
> So its a last fond farewell to rec.crafts.winemaking.
>
> it has been fun---- occasionally
>
> :-)
> Bye guys and girls.
>

sorry trevor I omitted 'nearly', as in 'nearly a septogenarian' - you're not
quite 70, just a few short months...

Mike
"Peacelover" > wrote in message
...
> You lot really need to grow up, Trevor is a septogenarian, a very wise,
> fit
> (thanks to his cycling), funny and generally nice guy. And on top of that
> he
> knows a lot about winemaking. I met him a few months ago, he lives a few
> miles from me and filled in for the guy who owns the local homebrew shop,
> so
> I had the chance to have a long conversation with him. He really does know
> what he's talking about, easily as much as the Jack (nice internet site)
> Kellers of this world.
>
> So stop giving the guy a hard time!
>
> Respect your elders.
>
> Mike
> "k-dawg" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> **** that asshole this group rules.if it was not for you kick ass
>> people i would still be buying my wine.LONG LIVE THIS (NG)
>>
>
>

Peacelover, I admire the loyalty you show to your friend & neighbor. I
can only hope my neighbors and friends will someday be so generous.
Trevor pays respect to Tom S and Ray Calvert, and he is right on.
Anytime Tom S, Calvert or Lum post a message, I read it. Even if it
regards a component of winemaking I have no interest in or knowledge
of. Jack Keller is also an expert, however he is far too AWOL. What I
really appreciate is how Tom S, Lum and Ray C will frequently respond
to the most basic of questions without a hint of frustration or
impatience. They are true teachers, and they share their vast
knowledge willingly and without reserve. There are so many other
contributors in this very same category, Dar V being another who has
established a niche for one gallon country wines and who lends a
refreshing and kind-hearted approach to our favorite pastime. On the
other hand, I frequently found Trevor to be crotchety, self-absorbed
and condescending. He used the r.c.w. as his blog, and was far too
intolerant of the very backbone of this NG and from which we all
evolved: the newbie. I wish him well but won't miss him for a moment.

Paul

Peacelover wrote:
> sorry trevor I omitted 'nearly', as in 'nearly a septogenarian' - you're not
> quite 70, just a few short months...
>
> Mike
> "Peacelover" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You lot really need to grow up, Trevor is a septogenarian, a very wise,
> > fit
> > (thanks to his cycling), funny and generally nice guy. And on top of that
> > he
> > knows a lot about winemaking. I met him a few months ago, he lives a few
> > miles from me and filled in for the guy who owns the local homebrew shop,
> > so
> > I had the chance to have a long conversation with him. He really does know
> > what he's talking about, easily as much as the Jack (nice internet site)
> > Kellers of this world.
> >
> > So stop giving the guy a hard time!
> >
> > Respect your elders.
> >
> > Mike
> > "k-dawg" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >> **** that asshole this group rules.if it was not for you kick ass
> >> people i would still be buying my wine.LONG LIVE THIS (NG)
> >>
> >
> >

Have you discounted Trevor's true-Brit glibness too much Mr. Paul?
Trevor speaks for Traditionalism, and there is a lot such thinking has
to offer.... in stability and in comfort of "all that needs to be known
about winemaking is already known and only needs to be practiced".
And there are those of us who break out of that mold (pardon the moldy
pun) and are willing to risk making mistakes in hopes of finding more
knowledge. Both are reasonable viewpoints.... both have merit, both
have their detractions.... both hold value.
Therefore, I believe both are to be held as useful in their own ways. I
may disagree with Trevor's staid and Brit ways... but I respect him for
his knowledge and integrity. Let us hope Trevor grants us our
differences and opens his horizon a bit to tolerance of the differences.

I will miss Trevor if he does really leave r.c.w.
Gene

wrote:
> Peacelover, I admire the loyalty you show to your friend & neighbor. I
> can only hope my neighbors and friends will someday be so generous.
> Trevor pays respect to Tom S and Ray Calvert, and he is right on.
> Anytime Tom S, Calvert or Lum post a message, I read it. Even if it
> regards a component of winemaking I have no interest in or knowledge
> of. Jack Keller is also an expert, however he is far too AWOL. What I
> really appreciate is how Tom S, Lum and Ray C will frequently respond
> to the most basic of questions without a hint of frustration or
> impatience. They are true teachers, and they share their vast
> knowledge willingly and without reserve. There are so many other
> contributors in this very same category, Dar V being another who has
> established a niche for one gallon country wines and who lends a
> refreshing and kind-hearted approach to our favorite pastime. On the
> other hand, I frequently found Trevor to be crotchety, self-absorbed
> and condescending. He used the r.c.w. as his blog, and was far too
> intolerant of the very backbone of this NG and from which we all
> evolved: the newbie. I wish him well but won't miss him for a moment.
>
> Paul
>
> Peacelover wrote:
>
>>sorry trevor I omitted 'nearly', as in 'nearly a septogenarian' - you're not
>>quite 70, just a few short months...
>>
>>Mike
>>"Peacelover" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>You lot really need to grow up, Trevor is a septogenarian, a very wise,
>>>fit
>>>(thanks to his cycling), funny and generally nice guy. And on top of that
>>>he
>>>knows a lot about winemaking. I met him a few months ago, he lives a few
>>>miles from me and filled in for the guy who owns the local homebrew shop,
>>>so
>>>I had the chance to have a long conversation with him. He really does know
>>>what he's talking about, easily as much as the Jack (nice internet site)
>>>Kellers of this world.
>>>
>>>So stop giving the guy a hard time!
>>>
>>>Respect your elders.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>"k-dawg" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>
>>>>**** that asshole this group rules.if it was not for you kick ass
>>>>people i would still be buying my wine.LONG LIVE THIS (NG)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Thanks for the kind comments of mike and others and even Trevor. Of course
I try to give good advice, especially to nug's. They need it more than the
more experienced winemaker who can take what any of us say with a grain of
salt and blend it with what they do rather than doing it by wrote. I spent
many years making wine with the help of only a few friends like Paul Leamon
and for course C.J.J. Berry, though I never met the man. Then I found this
group and have truely learned a lot. Much of my advice comes from what I
have learned by applying what I picked up here so certainly I should give
back.

One of those that I have learned much from it Trevor and I have always
apreceiated what he has written in relation to winemaking and I do not mind
his being a bit crochety. But I am sorry that he has lost touch with the
beginner. I would welcome him back in his old capacity of a few years ago
when he was truely helpful. I will miss him. I think what has happended,
and he can certainly jump on me if I am wrong, is that he has lost interest
in beginners but he stops back by every now and then to see if the group has
changed. Of course the goup has not and in my opinion should not so he
continues to be dissapointed and can not resist the urge to say so. Hope he
changes his mind in the future or he find a proffestional group where he
might fit in better.

Ray

could make the group just for experienced winemakers... but i want to
thank everyone that helped me last summer when i made my first batch..
lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm