spray recommendations?
 

I planted 10 Cabernet Sauvignon vines this year (in SE Pennsylvania).
They've been growing very well until the Japenese beatles discovered
them in the last week or so. I also need to start spraying for powdery
mildew but I'm not sure which product is best. Sulpher? Is
lime-sulpher typically used? What about Mancozeb?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
RD

spray recommendations?
 

Beatles can be killed with Seven. The beatle problem is usually over by mid August - long before harvest for Cabernet Sauvignon and long past the pre harvest restrictions on its use - 7 days I believe.

Sulphur is good for Powdery but nothing else. It is also cheap. It will not control Downy, Black Rot or Phomopsis. JMS Stylette oil is also good for Powdery and may be preferable to Sulphur especially late in the season so as not to get a lot of sulphur in your wine. A 2.5 gallons jug of JMS will run you about $30 but will last you at least several years.

Mancozeb is a good preventative but there is a 66 day preharvest restriction on its use as well as product like it such as Penncozeb and Dithane. After June, you can use something like Ziram.

About two sprays each season with alternating sprays of Nova and Abound will take care of a lot of problems but Abound is VERY expensive but one gallon would last you a lifetime with only 10 vines. Use just prior to flowering, post flowering and fruit set and into June. Maybe you can get a small quantity from a commercial grower nearby.

Post verasion the disease pressure on the fruit diminishes greatly.

After verasion, you still need to be concerned with Botrytis. Products like Elevate are good for this and you can apply at verasion, about two weeks later and pre harvest.

I recommend you get the book "Midwest Small Fruit Pest Management Handbook" from Ohio State University Extension. It has everything you need to know. Their phone number is 614 292 1607.

I think you have a good choice with Cabernet Sauvignon. Some years may be difficult to rippen it fully but in general (my experience at least) it is more resistant to fungus and rot than varieties such as Merlot and Cabernet Franc. I have 12 three year old vines this year and they are in Excellent shape. They produce a lot of fruit and in future years I can see where I may have to cluster thin to avoid over cropping. I live in Central Maryland.

Good luck with your wine growing.
"RD" > wrote in message oups.com...
I planted 10 Cabernet Sauvignon vines this year (in SE Pennsylvania).
They've been growing very well until the Japenese beatles discovered
them in the last week or so. I also need to start spraying for powdery
mildew but I'm not sure which product is best. Sulpher? Is
lime-sulpher typically used? What about Mancozeb?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
RD

spray recommendations?
 

Rd,

Don't want to alarm you but you should start spraying way before now.
Do you know what black rot looks like? It's red spots on the leaves
with a thin black outline around them. I'm surprised that unsprayed Cab
Sav would not have it already. For Black rot and powdery mildew I would
recommend Nova. Paul's post was very informative and was correct. The
active ingredient in Nova is Mycobutinil ( sp? ) which is also sold as
"Eagle" at Lesco. Get it and spray at 1 level teaspoon per gallon of
water. Do it as soon as you can. Also Captan is good for downey mildew
protection and you should mix in some Captan also for DM. Like Paul
said add some Sevin for the beetles but unless the infestation is
extremely bad, they won't hurt you as much as PM,DM, and BR. After you
spray the Nova/Captan solution spray it again in 10 days. That should
get you going in the right direction.

Bob



RD wrote:
> I planted 10 Cabernet Sauvignon vines this year (in SE Pennsylvania).
> They've been growing very well until the Japenese beatles discovered
> them in the last week or so. I also need to start spraying for powdery
> mildew but I'm not sure which product is best. Sulpher? Is
> lime-sulpher typically used? What about Mancozeb?
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> RD

spray recommendations?
 

Fungicides; add 'Kaligreen'
Beatles can be killed with Seven. The beatle problem is usually over by mid August - long before harvest for Cabernet Sauvignon and long past the pre harvest restrictions on its use - 7 days I believe.

Sulphur is good for Powdery but nothing else. It is also cheap. It will not control Downy, Black Rot or Phomopsis. JMS Stylette oil is also good for Powdery and may be preferable to Sulphur especially late in the season so as not to get a lot of sulphur in your wine. A 2.5 gallons jug of JMS will run you about $30 but will last you at least several years.

Mancozeb is a good preventative but there is a 66 day preharvest restriction on its use as well as product like it such as Penncozeb and Dithane. After June, you can use something like Ziram.

About two sprays each season with alternating sprays of Nova and Abound will take care of a lot of problems but Abound is VERY expensive but one gallon would last you a lifetime with only 10 vines. Use just prior to flowering, post flowering and fruit set and into June. Maybe you can get a small quantity from a commercial grower nearby.

Post verasion the disease pressure on the fruit diminishes greatly.

After verasion, you still need to be concerned with Botrytis. Products like Elevate are good for this and you can apply at verasion, about two weeks later and pre harvest.

I recommend you get the book "Midwest Small Fruit Pest Management Handbook" from Ohio State University Extension. It has everything you need to know. Their phone number is 614 292 1607.

I think you have a good choice with Cabernet Sauvignon. Some years may be difficult to rippen it fully but in general (my experience at least) it is more resistant to fungus and rot than varieties such as Merlot and Cabernet Franc. I have 12 three year old vines this year and they are in Excellent shape. They produce a lot of fruit and in future years I can see where I may have to cluster thin to avoid over cropping. I live in Central Maryland.

Good luck with your wine growing.
"RD" > wrote in message oups.com...
I planted 10 Cabernet Sauvignon vines this year (in SE Pennsylvania).
They've been growing very well until the Japenese beatles discovered
them in the last week or so. I also need to start spraying for powdery
mildew but I'm not sure which product is best. Sulpher? Is
lime-sulpher typically used? What about Mancozeb?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
RD

spray recommendations?
 

Thanks for the advice. This is a big help! Paul, I saw the Ohio State
pest management reference you cited also available as PDF files on the
web. I'll post the url here for anyone interested.
(http://ohioline.osu.edu/b861/index.html).

RD

spray recommendations?
 

Here's a link for some organic control options in case you're
interested in some alternatives to chemical controls. Haven't read all
of it myself, but when I glanced at the disease control section they
said there were no organic controls for black rot, botrytis and some
others, but I know there are some out there now. Fungastop is one that
is on the market for control of many fungal and bacterial diseases.

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/f...fcontents.html

spray recommendations?
 

Paul,

I'm having trouble locating some of the fungicides mentioned above like
at local stores like Agway. Can you recommend a source?

Thanks again for your help,
RD

spray recommendations?
 

Miker,

Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.

Bob


miker wrote:
> Here's a link for some organic control options in case you're
> interested in some alternatives to chemical controls. Haven't read all
> of it myself, but when I glanced at the disease control section they
> said there were no organic controls for black rot, botrytis and some
> others, but I know there are some out there now. Fungastop is one that
> is on the market for control of many fungal and bacterial diseases.
>
> http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/f...fcontents.html

spray recommendations?
 

I usually purchase my fungicides through the Maryland Grape Growers Association. They buy for a number of growers and have several pick up points in the spring. I have ordered through Southern States but they usually have to have it UPS over to them and they are more expensive. I know the Maryland Grape Growers Association purchases from a place in Pennsylvania. It may be near you.

I know Jack Johnson whose email is listed at the bottom of this page can tell you where they get the material.

http://www.marylandwine.com/mgga/gro...ides/cppp.html

Also, Don Gautner has a vineyard in Seven Valleys, PA. He sells to amateur winemakers. I am sure he can tell you a good source for fungicides near you. Seven Valleys is in Southeastern PA - North of Baltimore about 20 miles or so inside Pennsylvania. His email is By the way, he grows EXCELLENT Cabernet Sauvignon. If you drop him an email I am sure he will get back with you. He is a very nice person and was in an Article in Winmaker Magazine last year.

Hope this helps

Paul


"RD" > wrote in message ps.com...
Paul,

I'm having trouble locating some of the fungicides mentioned above like
at local stores like Agway. Can you recommend a source?

Thanks again for your help,
RD

spray recommendations?
 

wrote:
> Miker,
>
> Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
>
> Bob

Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
them.

spray recommendations?
 

Sulphur and Stylet Oil will only work against Powdery. I do not know about Fungastop.

It is a lot easier to go "Organic" in certain areas. For example a grower in a hot semi arid climate could go that route a WHOLE lot easier than a grower in the Midwest or Eastern US.

Most of us growers would love to go "Organic" - especially if the products were there and cheaper - but so far it is only a dream.
"miker" > wrote in message oups.com...

wrote:
> Miker,
>
> Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
>
> Bob

Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
them.

spray recommendations?
 

Kaligreen (potassium bicarbonate) is advertised as an organic approach
to powdery mildew. I haven't seen any data on it's efficacy, however.

spray recommendations?
 

Diluted Milk has also been shown to be useful against powdery mildew. I wish someone (a winegrower) would try it and let us know the results.
"RD" > wrote in message ups.com...
Kaligreen (potassium bicarbonate) is advertised as an organic approach
to powdery mildew. I haven't seen any data on it's efficacy, however.

spray recommendations?
 

In California where black rot and Downey Mildew are non-existant, you
might be able to get away with it but growing organically in the
tropical rain forest conditions of the east is another thing. I would
bet most of the organic wines are not vinifera if grown in the east.

Bob


miker wrote:
> wrote:
> > Miker,
> >
> > Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
> vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
> control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
> as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
> I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
> them.

spray recommendations?
 

BTW,

I have tried to grow organically. It worked extremely well on
chamboucin and not so well on vinifera. My secret spray, OxiClean. It's
cheap and it's mostly sodium percarbonate. Basically it produces
hydrogen peroxide ( oxygen bleach) when mixed with water. It is a very
efective sporicide. Actually it's a great sporicide. You need to spray
about every 5 days ( a number I came up with based on fungus
germination cycles) and the one fungus it doesn't seem to stop is
phomopsis cane but I did skip a spray that I shouln't have and the jury
is still out on that observation. I had a good and extremely clean
harvest. I started spraying the wood in March and continued through
harvest. I mixed it in a 5 gallon bucket with warm water and used 2 of
the little scoops ( the old scoops that came with oxiclean) per 5
gallons. If some one knows of a way to control phomopsis organically,
it would work well. I was surprised how little black rot I had
considering chambourcin is extremely sensitive to black rot. You can
also spray in the rain, which I did many times, and I think it's better
to spray in the rain and take advantage of the water that oxiclean
needs to produce the hydogen peroxide that it produces when mixed with
water. If I had a mechanical sprayer I probably would have continued
this year but my arm almost fell off last year spraying the vineyard so
often with a backpack sprayer. I highly recommend the stuff, Oxiclean (
sodium percarbonate ) .

Bob


wrote:
> In California where black rot and Downey Mildew are non-existant, you
> might be able to get away with it but growing organically in the
> tropical rain forest conditions of the east is another thing. I would
> bet most of the organic wines are not vinifera if grown in the east.
>
> Bob
>
>
> miker wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > Miker,
> > >
> > > Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
> > vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
> > control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
> > as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
> > I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
> > them.

spray recommendations?
 

I think you are correct, Bob. Growing vinifera in the East is a challange. I believe I have read that Sulphur and Copper sprays are approved for "Organic" grown grapes. In other words, one may be surprised at what qualifies for "Organic Grown".
> wrote in message oups.com...
In California where black rot and Downey Mildew are non-existant, you
might be able to get away with it but growing organically in the
tropical rain forest conditions of the east is another thing. I would
bet most of the organic wines are not vinifera if grown in the east.

Bob


miker wrote:
> wrote:
> > Miker,
> >
> > Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
> vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
> control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
> as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
> I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
> them.

spray recommendations?
 

spray recommendations?
 

Bill, my experience is usually the same as yours. However, this year just the opposite is true. My Chambourcin and Chancellor are doing great but the berries (not leaves) of the vinifera got hit pretty hard. This year I have been using JMS oil. I don't know if that is the difference or not. This year in Central Maryland has been the "Perfect Storm" for fungal attack. We had 13 inches of rain in about 5 days (right after fruit set) and it was impossible to keep a spray down without washing off. Usually this time of year my Chambourcin are getting ragged with a speckle on the leaves and some defoliation - not so this year. It is good that I will at least have some good hybrid grapes but Chambourcin is not my favorite. I know that with the right amount of oak and several years of aging it does come around though.
"William Frazier" > wrote in message ...
wrote "I have tried to grow organically. It worked
extremely well on
chamboucin and not so well on vinifera."

Bob - I don't attempt to grow grapes here in the Kansas City area without a
multiple fungicide spray schedule. Dithane/Nova alternated with
Dithane/Quintec early season. Sub. Captan later. Insecticide infrequently.
Your comment about Chambourcin is interesting. I have more problem with
Chambourcin and Vignoles than other grapes in the vineyard. C. Franc, C.
Sauvignon and Chardonnay leaves show no sign of disease at this time while
the leaves of the two hybrids look pretty rough. Where do you grow your
Chambourcin? BTW, Baco Noir and NY73 started veraison this week.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

spray recommendations?
 

You are absolutely right that it is much easier to grow organically in
the drier west and I was going to point that out in my post, but
figured the reply would be that the OP was from the east where it is a
lot tougher to combat disease - probably it's a lot harder to grow
good vinifera grapes in general. I would think there are some people
doing it successfully, however.

Interesting about the oxyclean. Perhaps you should consider Oxidate
www.biosafesystems.com another organic fungicide I forgot about. Don't
know if it's registered for grapes but at least it is a registered
pesticide unlike oxyclean. It's widely used in the greenhouse industry
for a variety of disease problems.

As far as the milk for powdery mildew, I have seen the original
research on this and it did work in cucurbits. Don't know if anyone has
tested it on grapes.

spray recommendations?
 

Bill,

Is your NY73 the NY73.0136.17 now named Noiret? If so, I just planted some.
They're doing the best of what I planted. How do you like them and how is
the wine. I saw some info that it had done well in tastings but also heard
lately that commercial growers weren't particularly happy. Any thoughts
would be appreciated.

Dick


"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> wrote "I have tried to grow organically. It worked
> extremely well on
> chamboucin and not so well on vinifera."
>
> Bob - I don't attempt to grow grapes here in the Kansas City area without
a
> multiple fungicide spray schedule. Dithane/Nova alternated with
> Dithane/Quintec early season. Sub. Captan later. Insecticide
infrequently.
> Your comment about Chambourcin is interesting. I have more problem with
> Chambourcin and Vignoles than other grapes in the vineyard. C. Franc, C.
> Sauvignon and Chardonnay leaves show no sign of disease at this time while
> the leaves of the two hybrids look pretty rough. Where do you grow your
> Chambourcin? BTW, Baco Noir and NY73 started veraison this week.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>

spray recommendations?
 

Dick - My grapes are Noiret. I planted 24 in 2001. I like them very much
and would plant them again. Not much problem with disease...I follow a
strick spray schedule. The grapes are giant compared to others I grow.
Very good taste...you can eat them as table grapes if you don't mind seeds.
Let them hang long and the acid comes down to about 0.7%. I've made an
excellent 50/50 wine with Noiret and Baco Noir. Noiret contributes tannins
and spicy flavors and Baco contributes a lot of fruity flavor. I tasted
some very good 100% Noiret last January at a seminar so I'm planning on
making 100% Noiret wine in addition to some blended wine this fall. I grow
grapes as a hobby so I'm not troubled by things a commercial grower would
consider a problem. Noiret does grow into a jungle if you don't spend some
time combing the shoots. The canopy can become so dense the grapes are
hidden from the sun. I try to keep the grapes in sunlight best I can.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Richard Heckman" > wrote in message
...
> Bill,
>
> Is your NY73 the NY73.0136.17 now named Noiret? If so, I just planted
> some.
> They're doing the best of what I planted. How do you like them and how is
> the wine. I saw some info that it had done well in tastings but also
> heard
> lately that commercial growers weren't particularly happy. Any thoughts
> would be appreciated.
>
> Dick

spray recommendations?
 

One more thing about Oxiclean that may interest people. If you wash
strawberries with Oxiclean after you pick/buy them you will notice that
they stay fresh and don't rot for weeks. I used Oxiclean exclusively
last year and was betting that Oxiclean would be great in preventing
bunch rot. Chambourcin isn't that susceptible to bunch rot so I didn't
really prove anything last year but I would guess that if someone
wanted to use Oxiclean/sodium percarbonate for bunch rot, it would
work if they couldn't afford or find commercial fungicides. BTW,
Oxiclean is great stuff for cleaning wine equiptment and the only
residue is soda ash so I can't see why you couldn't use it for a spray
on personal grapes even if it's not recommended.

Bob


Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
> I think you are correct, Bob. Growing vinifera in the East is a challange. I believe I have read that Sulphur and Copper sprays are approved for "Organic" grown grapes. In other words, one may be surprised at what qualifies for "Organic Grown".
> > wrote in message oups.com...
> In California where black rot and Downey Mildew are non-existant, you
> might be able to get away with it but growing organically in the
> tropical rain forest conditions of the east is another thing. I would
> bet most of the organic wines are not vinifera if grown in the east.
>
> Bob
>
>
> miker wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > Miker,
> > >
> > > Organic control of fungus on vinifera??? Good luck.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Sulfur and Stylet Oil are both organic and both will control fungus on
> > vinifera. Fungastop is organic and I've seen tests that show it will
> > control fungus on vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there
> > as well. There are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and
> > I'm sure all of those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome
> > them.
>
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> <DIV>I think you are correct, Bob.&nbsp; Growing vinifera in the East is a
> challange.&nbsp; I believe I have read that Sulphur and Copper sprays are
> approved for "Organic" grown grapes.&nbsp; In other words, one may be surprised
> at what qualifies for "Organic Grown".</DIV>
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> <DIV>&lt;<A ">doublesb@hotmai l.com</A>&gt;
> wrote in message <A
> oglegroups.com">news:1152745554.240721.176600@s13g 2000cwa.googlegroups.com</A>...</DIV>In
> California where black rot and Downey Mildew are non-existant, you<BR>might be
> able to get away with it but growing organically in the<BR>tropical rain
> forest conditions of the east is another thing. I would<BR>bet most of the
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> east.<BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR><BR>miker wrote:<BR>&gt; <A
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> Good luck.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Bob<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sulfur and Stylet Oil
> are both organic and both will control fungus on<BR>&gt; vinifera. Fungastop
> is organic and I've seen tests that show it will<BR>&gt; control fungus on
> vinifera. There are plenty of other options out there<BR>&gt; as well. There
> are lots of organic vinifera wines on the market, and<BR>&gt; I'm sure all of
> those growers see fungus problems and somehow overcome<BR>&gt;
> them.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C6A5F9.47083DC0--

spray recommendations?
 

> wrote in message
ups.com...

>BTW, Oxiclean is great stuff for cleaning wine equiptment and the only
> residue is soda ash so I can't see why you couldn't use it for a spray
> on personal grapes even if it's not recommended.

I am on my first journey of hobby wine making. I purchased a one-step (no
rinse) sanitizer for the equipment and it was suspiciously similar to
Oxiclean in form, feel and application. I wondered then if it was just
Oxiclean being repackaged and renamed. Is this the case, and can I just use
Oxiclean and get the same results?

Quixote

spray recommendations?
 

wrote:

..... I can't see why you couldn't use it for a spray
> on personal grapes even if it's not recommended.


Bob,

From what I've read since this thread started, sodium percarbonate _is_
approved for grapes & other fruits in several proprietary products. They
usually combine it with hydrogen peroxide and sell it as a concentrate.
These products have even been approved for sanitizing hard surfaces to
get rid of anthrax! It seems that it's effective against fungus spores,
bacteria, viruses (and stains).

What gave you the idea to use it in the first place?

Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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spray recommendations?
 

Mike,

It's a long story but it started out with finding a solution to keep my
slate floors clean and snowballed from there. After the results I got
from the slate floor I started looking into what Oxiclean is and what's
in it. Oxiclean is sodium percarbonate which is also called oxygen
bleach. There isn't much info on the web about it's effectiveness as a
fungicide but there is much info on it's effectiveness as a laundry
detergent and a wood cleaner. It's the wood cleaner stuff that lead me
to find out that it's a great fungus remover, has the same pH as
Bordeaux Mixture, is safe for the septic , plants ,and is a safe wine
equiptment cleaner. It's great for any organic stains like wine and
coffee. It also is advertised as a good grout cleaner so that's why I
used it on stone. It's not advertised as a stone cleaner but it does a
great job. Anyway I used my 100 vine vineyard to experiment last year
and was very pleased with the results. I think it's better than pure
hydrogen peroxide ( Oxidate ) becuase of the high pH residue ( Soda Ash
) that's left on the leaves to act as a protectant. I also was excited
about the ability to spray in the rain because you never know when
you'll get those 7 day rain fall and you need to get something on the
leaves. What's better than sparaying something that will give you a
clean slate until you can get some protection on them. Also I used
Oxiclean on strawberries to keep them from premature rotting and it
worked great so I thought it might have some usefulness with bunch rot.
So that's basically the gist of it.

Bob

..
Mike McGeough wrote:
> wrote:
>
> .... I can't see why you couldn't use it for a spray
> > on personal grapes even if it's not recommended.
>
>
> Bob,
>
> From what I've read since this thread started, sodium percarbonate _is_
> approved for grapes & other fruits in several proprietary products. They
> usually combine it with hydrogen peroxide and sell it as a concentrate.
> These products have even been approved for sanitizing hard surfaces to
> get rid of anthrax! It seems that it's effective against fungus spores,
> bacteria, viruses (and stains).
>
> What gave you the idea to use it in the first place?
>
> Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
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