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Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes. |
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I have two separate gallons of Zinfandel that are about a month away
from bottling. One gallon was oaked at the last racking but has had no tannin added, the other was not oaked, but I added a dose of tannin (1/4 teaspoon) at the start. With one gallon, I used RC212, the other, Flor Sherry. Both were made from concentrate. So, I have two different gallons, prepared slightly differently, but what they have in common is neither has any character. Both are extremely bland and uninteresting. They are dry and the PH is spot on (3.43 and 3.5). I'm thinking that with this next (last) racking, I'll add a bit more tannin to each and top them up with a little commercial zin and a little mixed vinifera concentrate. I'll probably oak one or both again. Does anyone else have any ideas for how to improve these zins? Thanks, Greg G. |
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Where did you get the grapes/juice? And how long since you started
these? |
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greg,
It sounds like you're doing about all you can at this point. I've made red concentrate wines in the past, but gave up because they all had so little character of the named variety. It might have been the specific fruit source for yours, i.e., poor grapes, or it might have been the lack of skins in the fermentation. Both are things that you probably can't fix now. Adding more oak & tannin will put some kind of flavor in the wine, but not the complexity you want. Adding Vinifera concentrate might help, but will never give you the results you want, imho. There's also the issue of hydroxymethylfurfural giving all concentrate based wines a similar taste (in my experience). My opinion is that, sadly, concentrates, esp. reds, just aren't a match for whole fruit fermentations. -- Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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![]() Rob wrote: > Where did you get the grapes/juice? And how long since you started > these? The juice was concentrate purchased from a brewing shop. I believe the brand was Alexander's. These were started near the end of May. I racked the first time at about the 1 month mark, and I'm getting ready to rack again in the next few days. Fermentation has been complete for a while now. Greg |
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![]() Mike McGeough wrote: > greg, > ... > There's also the issue of hydroxymethylfurfural giving all concentrate > based wines a similar taste (in my experience). > ... Fascinating... There seems to have been a lot written on the subject, but I've never heard of this before. I'm sure this is at least a partial explanation for what I'm experiencing. Oddly enough, all of my other batches made from Welches Niagara or Concord concentrate or raisins seem to be shaping up fine. Greg |
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I really don't have knowledge of concentrates so can't comment on them
specifically, but in my experience the qualities you are speaking about - character, backbone, etc.- develop a lot with age and its very hard to judge these things early, especially before bottling. |
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> The juice was concentrate purchased from a brewing shop. I believe the
> brand was Alexander's. I made some concentrate and sterile juice wines early in my wine-making, but now I hold out for fruit. Having said that, one of the wines I made was from Alexanders juice (not concentrate, but one assumes the juice is where they make the concentrate...) - it was a merlot and had exactly the same problem. Weak, no body, and eventually, while trying to rescue it, I overoaked it. I found that my best juice wines came from buying sterile juice, not concentrates, and I avoided Alexander's from then on. Just my opinion. Oh, and I suspect that Niagara and Concord concentrates work so well because they've been the core of the grape concentrate business so long, they've either bred problems out of the grapes or they've perfected all the processes around these two grape varieties. Rob |
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![]() miker wrote: > I really don't have knowledge of concentrates so can't comment on them > specifically, but in my experience the qualities you are speaking about > - character, backbone, etc.- develop a lot with age and its very hard > to judge these things early, especially before bottling. True, but those characteristics have to come from somewhere. At this point, tap water is more interesting than my Zins. This early in the process I would expect to be picking up on some edginess from the higher (more complex) alcohol molecules as well as a bit of yeastiness since fermentation hasn't been complete for very long. Anyway, I hope to add a little complexity before bottling (tannins, oak, vinifera concentrate, etc.). Perhaps between this and some time in the bottle these will improve. Thanks for your input. Greg G. |
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![]() > wrote in message ups.com... > I have two separate gallons of Zinfandel that are about a month away > from bottling. One gallon was oaked at the last racking but has had no > tannin added, the other was not oaked, but I added a dose of tannin > (1/4 teaspoon) at the start. With one gallon, I used RC212, the other, > Flor Sherry. Both were made from concentrate. > > So, I have two different gallons, prepared slightly differently, but > what they have in common is neither has any character. Both are > extremely bland and uninteresting. They are dry and the PH is spot on > (3.43 and 3.5). > > I'm thinking that with this next (last) racking, I'll add a bit more > tannin to each and top them up with a little commercial zin and a > little mixed vinifera concentrate. I'll probably oak one or both again. > Does anyone else have any ideas for how to improve these zins? > > Thanks, > > Greg G. Greg, High quality, red wine grapes have colorless juice. All of the red color is in the grape skins. Red wine is made by crushing the grapes and then fermenting the juice, pulp, skins and the seeds together for several days. During fermentation, the color is extracted from the skins. However, many other materials besides color are also extracted from the seeds and skins during red fermentations and these other materials are why red wines taste different than white wines. Sterile red juice is made by crushing the grapes and then heating the juice, pulp, skins and the seeds together for a few minutes. The heat extracts much of the color, but little else (like tannin and some of the flavor producing materials) is extracted. Red concentrate is made by removing water from sterile red juice using a vacuum pan. So, sterile red juice and red concentrate contain little phenolic materials, and wines made from these materials are colored red but taste more like white wines. Your Zinfandel wine lacks phenolic materials, so additions of tannin, oak, vanillin, etc should help. Good luck, Lum Del Mar, California, USA www.geocities.com/lumeisenman |
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Greg
I had a similar problem with a white Vineco kit wine that I bought. I can't remember the specific type of wine it was (Hock?) but it tasted like grapefruit juice. It wasn't bad tasting but wine just shouldn't taste like grapefruit juice, right? I complained to my local wine shop and they told me to bring in some and they would get Vineco to test it for me. May have been my fault or not, who knows? End result - I got a brand new kit. Moral of the story is that it may be worth your while to talk to the company who made the kit. I think in the interests of their company it was cheaper for the company to just replace the kit. It's cheap advertising for them. I have my doubts that they even tested it. Frances |
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